The Ship Model Forum

John,

Thanks so much for the photos. Yes, the first 2 may be of some help reference-wise.

I haven't been working on this project for a while as I'm trying to get my FLETCHER class DD build completed. Hope to return to this in the future.

Thanks again!!

Hank

Hank

Hope that all is well. I recently discovered the hiding place for my old CANISTEO (AO-99) photos and have attached a few below for when the ship was in drydock, so you can see the hull shape (a bit). In one of the bow photos you can just make out the paravane skeg, which the ship still had in the mid-late 80's.

Note that these photos are post-jumbo, so the stern photo shows the starboard rudder as modified. The ships as originally built had a single, centerline rudder.

And yes, we went to drydock twice in a year. The first was a scheduled overhaul and the second was some months after coming out of the overhaul to fix a rudder bearing that the shipyard goofed up.

[attachment=2]CANISTEO - Drydock Norfolk- Spring 1985 - bow.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=1]CANISTEO Shipyard Bayonne winter 1984-85.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=0]CANISTEO -Drydock-Norfolk - Engineering Dept Spring 1985.jpg[/attachment]

[quote="Fliger747"]Tis a pity that Phil's beautiful 3D illustrations translate with difficulty to actual fungible items. I'm sure he will get it worked out. Looking forward to seeing the hull come together, it IS (Clintonian emphasis) a learning progress. Especially on a first hull by printing. Will you have enough sections done to start building up the superstructure? Cheers: Tom[/quote]
Tom,
Well, such is drawing in 2D, designing & printing in 3D - as for the hull, I have the first after section (moving from amidships astern) ready to be sanded and then added to the overall central hull assembly. Perhaps a picture tomorrow a.m. to show what progress has been made. Got to get the upper plan views laid out and measurements taken before proceeding in either direction as the hull shape is now beginning to change. As for the superstructure - YES! I will need to get back and revisit that set of designs & parts.

Along those lines, a larger printer capacity would be advantageous in being able to print these parts as a single item rather than the slice & dice approach I've taken up to this point (as you know yourself). So, I'm still considering this move - the product specials are still in effect at the moment.

Hank

Tis a pity that Phil's beautiful 3D illustrations translate with difficulty to actual fungible items. I'm sure he will get it worked out. Looking forward to seeing the hull come together, it IS (Clintonian emphasis) a learning progress. Especially on a first hull by printing. Will you have enough sections done to start building up the superstructure?

Cheers: Tom

Phil,

Thanks - I appreciate the background on your work! Tom assisted in beefing up the support structure and then I scaled down to size. Your 2D drawing was quite useful in dimensioning the 3D version. Two different drawings for two totally different purposes.

Anyhow, I hope to print a test version next week sometime, so we'll know what works etc. I think I've updated my STODDARD build with this info as that's where it actually is being used.

Hank

Hank,

All of the tubing on the antenna was the same diameter, so you can beef up the rear supports a bit.

This is the "A" version of the antenna, which technically was the antenna assembly AS-936(A). The "B" version included a smaller reflector below the bottom tube on our models. I'm not sure when it went into service.

I got a photocopy of the Technical Manual NAVSHIPS 0967-156-3040 (April 1970) from a fellow on the USS [i]Midway[/i]. It has exploded parts diagrams for the whole thing, so if I really wanted to be obsessive about modelling it I could include all the internal parts. I may be a rivet counter, but I am not that anal!

I haven't done the 3D print version of the antenna yet or I would share the STL file with you. My original CAD file is made up of zero thickness 2D surfaces and has more holes and leaks that a piece of Swiss cheese.

Phil

I think we called him some version of Pucky Buller at the time. Of course Song could make one of these out of bamboo slivers that would put us all to shame.

Tom

Phil,
Great shots of your A/N SPS-10 unit - I've referenced you over on my STODDARD build re. your drawing, etc. These photos show what I've not gotten put into place - the horizontal reflector ribs (2) - so that will be something to work on next. Yes, I doubt that the "window shade" ribbons would print, possibly in 1/96 scale, but most certainly not at all at 1/144 or smaller.

The reflector supports in back are, as you mentioned, a PITA to design - mine "look" correct but will probably fail to print because of diameter. Tom has offered to help me beef up those particular supports. In DSM, these individual solids become one piece when joined together rather than remaining separate entities (unless you put each on a separate layer! - NOT HAPPENING!!). I've also got to slim down the width of the vertical reflector frame members as your views have pointed out. Here's what my efforts look like presently:
[attachment=0]AN-SPS-10 Antenna.JPG[/attachment]
This is an unscaled version drawn from your drawing (lower right side) using those views to dimension with the printout at 11x17. So, my scaled version will end up 36% of this design model. The only things I've left off of the pedestal base are the various nuts as they simply would not print at 1/144 scale.

So, always something to do in this venue - nothing static, always dynamic & fluid!!! And Tom is correct - it does look like something out of Buckmaster Fuller's world!

Hank

R Buckminster Fuller would be proud of that framework. Despite the considerable capabilities of our printers, the characteristics of the resins usually can't realize what we can actually print into a successful part. Larger scales are better, but then not all of us have room in the pool for a 1:10 scale Battleship.

Keep pushing the limits!

Hank,

The frame on the back of the SPS-10 antenna was a real brain teaser when I made the model for the OK City. I had a tech manual for the antenna and the blueprint for the mounting arrangement to work from. Here are a couple of images. The antenna had a bunch of parallel slats - like window shades - on the front side of the frame. There is no way that is going to print correctly!

Thanks, Tom!! Next week I'll get this printed (w/accom. ldr.) and see what happens! Maybe have the SPS-10 for STODDARD design finished - a bit of work to get the backside supports aligned properly.

Hank

These look much more airy in the flesh. I have used a ribbon material which has a very open mesh for screens etc before, stretched and then dry brushed to seize it (very light airbrush works also using an air blast to make sure paint doesn't clog the mesh) . However in this instance the dipoles on the front make such an application difficult. At any distance these radars pretty much just have the main frame parts visible, so the overall effect is preserved, full modeling will often give an impression of lack of transparency. Dang compromise!

It's a nice unit Hank!

Thanks, Tom - and a good analogy of the hobby in a nutshell. More than just cement, sticks, & so forth.

On a couple other fronts - I've used Tom's APA accommodation ladder as a basis for the one that will adorn the T-3 - I've made necessary size changes and based on the Gen. Arrgt. drawing have this one that should go to printing later this week:
[attachment=1]144 scaled T-3 Accomodation Ladder_1.JPG[/attachment]

Stbd side ladder is shown on the plans - but, if need be, I'll modify this to make one in a stowed position for the port side - another mini-research project to find out WHERE this was stowed.

The G.A. is totally vague on the RADAR set specified on these ships and I've come to the conclusion that some T-3s had SK, some had SC - there doesn't seem to be a pattern or scheme as to what was installed. This is one of the tech. aspects of the individual ship specifics that's missing from NavSource listings as well as individual ship listings on Auke Visser's Famous T Tanker Pages - an otherwise excellent source of info. So, based on what might be (the photos are hazy) installed on one of the 4 ships built at Sparrow Point, MD in this contract (AO-97, 98, 99, 100) I have decided on SC-2 antenna with IFF mounted above and have designed this in DSM:
[attachment=0]144 scaled T-3 SC-2 RADAR Antenna Modified.JPG[/attachment]
Having consulted with Tom for using on his DSM, he did a bit of beefing up of struts and then I added some further details to arrive at what is hopefully a respectful looking antenna.

I'm continuing to print further hull sections which take a day (8.5 hours) to print each and have a few more to do. That will finish the straight, center section of the hull, which comprises about 16" in length. Once this center section is assembled, sanded, and ready for paint (but NOT painted), I'll then begin back on work on the fwd superstructure and pick up where I left off a month or so ago.

Hank

The ship modeler is a historian of sorts. We don't need more histories of a few luminaries, unless new information comes to light. I did build a large model of Missouri, however I did have a small connection with her, just as Hank has a larger connection with New Jersey. One of my cousin'd father was a plank holder on Fletcher so if he was a modeler, he could be excused for building a popular ship. Another gent I knew had been a plank holder on Hornet for her brief career and on and on.

The difference between USN's great Blue Fleet and every other Navy was logistical support. Literally the fleet that came to stay. The great General US Grant had the army that came to stay, they might get "whooped", but the next morning they were still there.

Your tanker was as important as any combatant out there. Loss of Neosho though by mistake of the Japanese, was a serious crimp in the flexibility of Frank Jack Fletcher to continue to "hang out". There were various bottlenecks in ship construction, one of the big ones was drafting capacity to turn ideas into buildable plans. Perhaps this was part of the reason for ship yards to just "do stuff", after all there was a "War On".

Maybe all the real passion in ship modeling gets wrapped up in detailing, turning micro brass door knobs or whatever, but one has to pay the piper to get there by building a hull.

Keep up the good work! Tom

Phil,
Thanks for that idea - I've got the next (moving Aft) sections designed and ready to print, but on the FOLLOWING section aft (Sect. B) I'll incorporate a [b]#[/b] pattern of triangular shaped ribs (and post a picture of this arrangement) and see how this works. As long as the exterior wall is correct, the internal part is non-critical. I'll also post photos of the Sect. A internals as that's the one that has the concave ribs.

About your Phrozen printer comment - NO! - the Phrozen Sonic Mega 8K ($1999.00) is a current model and I've looked that over, but it's way too expensive for my needs, and doesn't really give you a much larger build platform for all that dough!! Their Mighty 6K has a larger build platform and runs currently @ $599.00 on Amazon. My suspicions are that the Mighty 8K is a somewhat larger edition of this printer with the obvious increase in pixel definition for more detailed parts, etc. But at this date, they have provided no further information publicly unless one of the 3D Printing websites that follows all this stuff has either been given advanced information or has ferreted this out for themselves.

Regarding your H. I. Chapelle reference on Tom's thread - Yes, that article I read way back in the 1960s when I got my edition of his History of the American Sailing Navy. I agree completely and that's one of the reasons I chose to build a 1:48 scale model of U.S. Sloop of War PEACOCK (1813) rather than "another" CONSTITUTION, etc. I tend to try to find the "other" ships in the navy to build models of as they also played important roles in our history but may not ever get the glory the main dozen or so always seem to get. Glad you mentioned that little known fact re. Chapelle's comments.

Hank

Hank,

One thing you could do to reduce resin volume is to print the internal longitudinal ribs with a triangular cross section. This would build up resin thickness and strength with successive layers and it should support the side walls fine. Also, you could use both longitudinal and vertical ribs in a "#" pattern on the inside of the hull side for more support.

I would add a few supports for the ribs to support them as they are first printing to reduce flexing or "drooping" from the forces peeling them from the FEP film. Vertical (to the print plate) supports would serve to support the ribs and you wouldn't need any cross supports between them.

****

Were you talking about the Phrozen Sonic Mega 8K printer - $1,999.00?

The specs are interesting. The pixel size is 0.043 mm - just a bit smaller that the common 0.05 mm pixels. So not much resolution gain there. But it will print layers from 0.01 mm to 0.3 mm, and that gives quite a range of resolutions (30 x).

The print area is 13" x 7.28". Maximum height is 15.75 inches. To put that in perspective I could print my 1:96 Cleveland class cruiser hull (610 feet long by 66 feet wide) in 5 full width/height sections (8.3" beam, 4.6" deep, 15" high). In fact, I could even include the first two layers (O1 and O2 levels) of the superstructure in those prints!

But the maximum print speed is said to be 70 mm per hour - I really don't know what that means because print time should vary with exposure time and that depends upon the resin. Surely this isn't the maximum lift/retract speed?! And it doesn't say what the layer thickness is for that 70 mm per hour - thicker layers means fewer slices to print and faster print times but coarser resolution. But the maximum part height is 400 mm (15.75") so the minimum print time for a full height part at 70 mm per hour would be 5.7 hours. I could live with that for a 15" long part!

Phil

[quote="Fliger747"]Hank: A thought on doing the sheer of the hull sections in DSM. The upper section of the hull section can be extruded on a sweep line, which could be a gentle curve matching the sheer line of the main deck. Then do the bottom half of the hull section as a straight extrusion.
Tom[/quote]

Tom,
Quite right - I've been doing that to create the sheer once I have the solid created for the hull piece. This would necessitate making the deck a separate piece (layer/color) so it could be turned off during the sweep operation.

About to go out and check on the printer. :nod_2:

Hank

edit - 6:45pm - print came out fine, now drying overnight. Tomorrow I'll print the port side for sect. #5, another all day session.

Hank:

A thought on doing the sheer of the hull sections in DSM. The upper section of the hull section can be extruded on a sweep line, which could be a gentle curve matching the sheer line of the main deck. Then do the bottom half of the hull section as a straight extrusion.

Tom

So, I modified the first stbd. section a bit:
[attachment=0]Aft Sect A Section Stbd Side_1.JPG[/attachment]
I thinned the side & bottom inside panel thickness to 1.5mm instead of 2mm. The lower hull curve wall needed to be left intact due to possible torpedo penetration by Ruskie U-boats :submarine: .
Then, I made the side wall internal ribs concave instead of straight - this is an attempt to keep the resin from building up while printing as it has done up to this point as the part is printed with the hull side at top. This orientation leaves the ribs to retain the resin sort of like the way the insides of caves are covered in bat guano :doh_1: . Hopefully, the concave shape will eliminate some or all of this excessive waste of material, although in the long run, it isn't all that much. Lastly, I thinned the low bulwark down by 0.25mm to a thickness of 0.75mm instead of 1.00mm.

Next week, once other parts have been printed, etc. I'll get to this one and see how this turns out.

Hank

Tom,

Shall we say - [b]Into the Blue Horizon - where no man has delfted to go?[/b] Sort of a pun on Delft (ship) - as I still can't find the start button to that program!!!! :doh_1:

And to anyone out there - has anyone seen any info at all on the new Phrozen Sonic Mighty 8K Printer??? I got a pre-order email from Phrozen but it doesn't give any details. I'm not one to jump on a "deal" unless I know WHAT the deal consists of - in many cases it would be a big mistake to go for it - however, I would like to know about this new printer.

Going from the amidships AFT, the next 3 sections (50mm long ea.) will be repeats of the sect. #1, as there is no change in either hull width or shape. However, I am going to take the DSM file for sect. 1 (stbd side only) and redo it internally to see if I can save some resin by thinning some walls and so forth. Looking at the main deck plan, the shape of the hull is a rather long, gentle curve, that when divided into 50mm lengths, could be done in straight sections as the curve is so slight that this might work without a whole lot of notice - this of course, is after the 3 straight sections are in place. At the same time, the hull itself is narrowing looking from the stern forward at the actual shape of the hull. So this is where things could get dicey. :twitch: As Tom has said - it's all a bit of trial & error at this point.

Hank