The Ship Model Forum

True, there is also a new development of the Otomat missile: Mk2 Block IV/Teseo Mk2/A. I am not sure how advanced is the latest Exocet version. The Korean and Japanese navy have also their own anti-ship missiles: SSM-700K Haeseong and Type 90 (SSM-1B). All are slow compared to the newest Russian missiles.

Most western navies still use old Harpoon missiles.

Maybe, maybe not.
https://www.mbda-systems.com/product/marte-er/

At least four of them apparently got the ones from the Type 22 Batch 3 frigates. The question is what kind of Harpoon the old Arleigh Burke have - from the same time as the Type 22 Batch 3

The USN was not yet able to develop a new anti-ship missile. It is buying now the Norwegian NSM. The NSM and the newest Swedish RBS-15 are the only new Western anti-ship missiles with launchers for use on ships available.

The Darings do not carry Harpoon as standard. They are fitted if is deemed necessary for a particular deployment. Also the Royal Navy only has Harpoon Block 1C which is pretty old now.

Maxim, having said that, I am very surprised to learn that the Fliaght II A do not have any anti-ship missiles. Perhaps the Bristish disease for suicidal penny-pinching is catching!

The Arleigh Burke has certainly many advantages, but the newer ships (Flight IIA) all have NO anti-ship missiles. They can use only their SM-2 to defend themselves against ships. The Daring class has Harpoon missiles - at least until they have to be replaced (also true for the early Arleigh Burke?).

The Samson radar of the Daring is a newer technology (active phased array vs. passive phased array in case of Arleigh Burke) and the antenna is higher in the ship. The SMART-L long range radar is also superior in long range performance. On the other hand, the Daring has only a turning antenna, whereas there are four larger SPY-1 antenna on the Arleigh Burke. For sure, the Arleigh Burke have the clear advantage in regard of the number of VLS cells.

Absolutely...

https://defencyclopedia.com/2015/07/10/ ... estroyers/

https://defencyclopedia.com/2015/07/10/ ... estroyers/

Burke wins easily and this is not even the Flight III...Sorry for our RN supporters.

The Arleigh Burke's seem to have reliable engines and carry anti-ship missiles so they are the clear winner. The RN seems to be returning to the days when warships had to look impressive (spit and polish) and less attention is paid to what would happen in wartime.

The lack of a replacement for Harpoon when it is retired in 2018 is a sure sign that priorities are skewed in favour of style over substance with the present government. It will be interesting to watch the 65000 ton HMS Queen Elizabeth sailing around with 7 F-35s as well. That was the last number I heard for the planned airwing.

Unfortunately the men and women who serve in the RN are expected to potentially put their lives on the line while self-serving politicians make decisions that save a relatively small amount of money but could lead to disaster.

The Arleigh Burke's have a balanced armament and a proven design so they win!

wiki extract :

"In April 2012, the Horizon-class frigate, Forbin, of the French Navy downed an American GQM-163 Coyote target simulating a sea-skimming supersonic anti-ship cruise missile traveling at Mach 2.5 (3000 km/h) with an altitude of less than 5 metres. It was the first time a European missile defence system destroyed a supersonic sea-skimming "missile". The trial was described as a "complex operational scenario"."

looks like those ASTER are quite effective.

May I suggest a trip to your local google provider.

Cheers, Jabb

Royal NAVY loses this hands down and you know it my friend..TYPE 45 is another British effort to prove they have the capability to develop something independently from the US by using French made technology (Aster missiles and Thales radar) and utter failure..A billion pounds destroyer capable of launching 48 French designed and produced missiles, you godda be kidding ..

Steady...

Certainly the RN has some great names - Warspite, Battleaxe, etc.

But also takes the cake on duds for names - Dainty....Decoy.......Flower....

The Royal Navy wins this one hands down on just the name alone.

HMS Daring, notice of intention, can-do and will do, who dares wins etc.

Mmmmm, Arleigh Burke. Sounds like one of those dreadful arboreal actors from a 1950's American TV sit-com. Canned laughter and a distinct lack of anything associated with humour.

I will now remove my median sulcus from my buccal pouch.

Cheers, Jabb

Beauty, proud to have served on her. Loved my time aboard. Great crew.

I'll also say the Type 23 is a smart looking ship, and that's not just because I also served onboard HMS Sutherland.

I had hoped the USN might have ended up with an 'Americanized' Type 23 (Mk41 VLS w ESSM, Mk45 127mm, etc), and I'd say I'd be more than happy to see an 'Americanized' Type 45 - highly capable, with more affordable manning. Much of the cost could be driven out through a higher rate production and less concern for 'spreading the wealth' to keep various shipbuilders in business.

Understand that the manning requirements of a Type 45 and Burke are quite different. The Darings need to add those strike-length VLS cells to carry Tomahawk.

Would love to someday see a Type 45 first hand.


Clearly, I'll play along in reviving a good old thread...

Yes but a little upgrade won't do any harm ..

Wow...this thread was started in 2006!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5270640.stm

Mate ,there was considerable US assistence without which the Astute class would never have been launched

https://defencyclopedia.com/2015/07/10/ ... estroyers/

Burke wins...

I haven't read this entire topic, so take this with a grain of salt. Also, I won't comment on which ship is "better." Ships are designed to fulfill a mission type. How well they accomplish this is what matters.

For antiaircraft and antimissile defense the single most important factor is how many targets a ship can detect and engage at a single time. If the limit is X and the enemy sends in X+1 the ship is history. Period. This is not just how many missiles a ship carries. Old Talos CLGs carried 48 missiles, but could only track six targets at a time, and could only engage two at a time. They were easy targets for saturation atacks.

The missiles must be fire-and-forget. Tell it where to go and what to look for, fire it, and move on to the next target. Then, if the target changes course, call up the missile and redirect it. The ship must be capable of launching and controlling at least as many missiles as there are targets. In this respect, more missiles is better - the ship can continue fighting longer without replenishment. If there is one more target than there are missiles, the ship is history.

The anti-ballistic missile capability of Standard is amazing, but of far less importance than it's ability to engage surface skimming anti-ship missiles. With these you have only seconds to react and destroy the missile, or the ship is history. The more systems capable of dealing with this threat, the more likely the ship is to survive.

Any ship without antisubmarine capability is nothing more than a target. Helos allow a ship to engage subs at greater range. More is better.

In modern warfare ships do not act alone. How well does a ship integrate into the battlefield systems? Any ship operating independent of a theater battle control system will not last very long.

Finally, what percentage of the time do all of these fantastic systems actually work? Nothing works all the time. A system may occasionally work OK in prescheduled tests, but if it is down when the attack comes, the ship is history.

All of these things need to be considered when determining the "best" ship.

Third Ballistic Missile Intercept Using Raytheon Standard Missile-3
Aegis systems superiority has been proven one more time..





Third Ballistic Missile Intercept Using Raytheon Standard Missile-3.



JS Kirishima, Japan's fourth destroyer equipped with Lockheed Martin's Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) system was the Destroyer that destroyed the Ballistic Missile.

The Aegis BMD-equipped Kirishima detected and tracked the separating medium-range ballistic missile target. It then developed a fire control solution and launched and guided a Standard Missile (SM)-3 Block IA missile to intercept outside the Earth's atmosphere.



Type 45 with SAMPSON/ASTER combination cant achieve this..