The Ship Model Forum

The bow of that Makarov image is also too low/sloped and the stern is clearly wrong, as from any angle you would see the stern slowing inward on the real vessel, while on the provided image, the stern seems to go straight down.
She was also recently seen intact, so the Makarov story clearly was made up.

I have actually made a model of a sister vessel of Shakhter a long while back, that sister was in the Northern fleet and involved in a rare deployment of Kuznetsov with Piotr Velikiy. I used a combination of Google Earth images and measurements along with a rudimentary plan (I believe from Janes or another source). That was in the period I still built warships, so that should be around 10-15 years ago... :heh:

After a quick search, I even found the topic back:
[url]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33763&hilit=712[/url]

I should still have the old pictures of this somewhere.

The iconic Snake Island has become a focal point of the naval front of this war:


[url=https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/ukraine-battles-russia-in-black-sea-over-strategic-snake-island/ar-AAX9Zmz?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=49f793a9a6014010b350c34b16f73a5e]REUTERS[/url]


[quote][b][size=200]Ukraine battles Russia in Black Sea over strategic Snake Island[/size][/b]
4h ago

(Reuters) - A remote island off Ukraine occupied by Russia on the first day of its invasion has, as Kyiv steps up efforts to retake it, become the focal point of what some defence officials believe may become a battle for control of the western Black Sea coast.
Both countries have reported renewed fighting around Snake Island, which achieved worldwide fame in the conflict's first hours when Ukrainian border guards stationed there rejected a Russian warship's demand for their surrender.
"Russian warship, go fudge yourself," one soldier was recorded as saying.

(...SNIPPED)[/quote]

Indeed..

The report describes the many technical problems identified on the Moskva just weeks before the war began. See the @GrangerE04117 thread for a summary of some of the problems identified.

https://twitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1522669441464832001

This is a leaked report on Moskva's readiness as of February 10, 2022.

This was posted on VK but was immediately removed from the networks.

https://twitter.com/GrangerE04117/status/1522643831736332288


- Od No. 4. OP No. 2 - restriction of use on modes above 0.6 N
(Order of the Commander of the Black Sea Fleet No. 433 of 04/12/2020). - stabilizer UK-134 (Order of the Commander of the Black Sea Fleet
Ne1313 om 24/09/20202.): - passenger elevator (order of the Commander of the Black Sea Fleet No. 1313 of
24/09/2020): - remote control system for general ship and anti-diversion Ladoga-64>> (order of the Commander of the Black Sea Fleet Veins N1313 om
24/09/20202): - automatic control and signaling system for drainage and ballast fire-fighting systems "Kaspiy-64" (Order of the Commander of the Black Sea
fleet No. 1313 of September 24, 2020) ;
- Level alarm system in fuel tanks (Order of the Commander of the Black Sea Fleet No. 1313 of 24/09/2020) ;
- VSD medium pressure air system with pneumatic actuators (remote control of shut-off valves for general ships of the Black Sea Fleet No. 1313 of 24/09/2020); systems) (Commander's order
- a device for transferring goods in motion Struna-M "(order of the Commander
- MPO-500 complex (Order of the Commander of the Black Sea Fleet No. 1018
07/06/2021)
General questions about the ship:
1. The deadline for verification of KIP-23.12.2021 has expired.On the instruction of the Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet for Logistics (TLG No. 51 on 06.01.22) and the decision of the Commission on ships, the deadline was extended to 31.03.22.
Navigator's warhead:
1. NTsVK Strelna-U>> - Limited use of NTsVK Strelna-U>> in
automatic mode of correction of ship's location and heading coordinates in the course of further modernization work.
2. AEOP "Sulak" Use of AEOP "Sulak" in automatic and semi-automatic modes of measuring horizontal coordinates of celestial bodies and coastal landmarks is limited due to malfunction of the photoelectric combined tube amplifier and inability to repair or replace it with a similar one.
3. AP Malachite N-2 (at GKP) Dismantled, is on board, prepared for delivery to the State Fleet Service of the Black Sea. The integrated car manufacturer installed as a replacement was not commissioned l / s was not commissioned. (Regarding the solution of suddenly assigned tasks at sea, the modernization work is not completed). The commander of the cruiser received a letter of guarantee from the director of the TCU "780 R3 TSK", a letter agreed with the head of the GS Chf. The letter states that the work under the state contract NP/1/5/167/GK-22 DGOZ dated February 28, 2020 has been completed in full except for the programming of devices: VAC-IM. ex.2.ex. UI-01, which will be completed by the return of the cruiser to PB Sevastopol.
Ainu Steni by the Black Sea Fleet No. 1313 of 24/09/20202); - the main mode MRP-3 (order of the Commander of the Black Sea Fleet No. 788 of 21/06/2020). - 3 channels MT-45 are defective. A restriction has been introduced on the combat use of MT-45 by Kuf Order No. 1395 DSP of 10/10/2020.

4. GSHV On January 26, 2022, the verification period expired. A request has been prepared for delivery of GSHV for verification to the navigation workshops of the Black Sea GS fleet.
Rocket and artillery warhead: 1. Fort UMZRK - when verifying an electronic shot after capturing a target, there is no missile link to the target, the display on the device FI231K does not light up, there is no scanning on the status indicator when the reception and transmission channel No. 1 is working. the device fe21f does not work. The fuses of the protection element light up, the operation of the TsVM device No. 1.2 is unstable, the FK aset mode does not pass, the "channel 1" fault is lit on the FV27f device, when the scan is high, the scan on the FI234k block is distorted. It is necessary to involve representatives of OAO "Ratep", Serpukhov.
2. MKRC "Corvette - offset antenna station in bearing, elevation angle of 10 °, the device 1104 does not work. Rolling amplifier 1K1107 does not work. Block 1K01.07 of starboard antenna post does not work. Operation in critical mode 1K01.07 of the left antenna post, the detector currents are underestimated. It is necessary to replace the 1K01.07 blocks in quantity of 04 pieces. It is necessary to involve representatives of OAO "Radar-service".
3. SAM <<Oca-MA>> N1st station without high radiation SOC. It is necessary to involve representatives of 1127 P3РАВ
4. SAM <<Osa-MA No. 2 - requires FK-1 adjustment, no SOC antenna lock. constant signal from simulated target on range indicator. Need to involve 1127 P3PAB representatives.
5. PK-2 from left borg - there is no horizon guidance, guides are not
return to original position. lightning arrestor SB-143-4 is defective 6. PK-2 of the right borg - there is no vertical guidance, the left turnstile does not turn into an electric turnstile. Need to involve representatives from 1127 P3PAB
7. AK-130 - large pumping station hydraulic motor is not working, working fluid is leaking from left PLC receiver drive, small pumping station working fluid is leaking from high pressure tube, 105d unit is not stable. It is necessary to involve representatives of Arsenal OJSC, St. Petersburg 8. AK-630 No. 1 - the control unit does not work, there is no voltage of 27 volts.
Replacement of the assault rifle Ao-18 No. 3 is necessary because of the maximum value of the shot per barrel. It is necessary to involve representatives of 1127 ZAV
9. KRO <<Basalt" - the device 4C does not work.It is necessary to involve representatives of NPO Mashinostroenie. It is necessary to replace 02 products 3M-70 due to the expiration of the period of stay on the ship.
Mine torpedo warhead:
1. Unstable operation of the hydraulic control system of the KMP60-2KM NI carriage. Adjustment required with input from military unit 27090A representatives.
Warhead communications:
One). Problematic Issues:
When the MR-800 radar is operating on radiation (channel 3), control of the R-794-1 satellite communication station antenna stations is lost and, as a result, the satellite communication channel becomes unstable and may result in station failure

A telegram was sent to the manufacturer regarding an emerging problem in the operation of the satellite communication station.
2). Satellite communication station R-794-1: - antenna poles No. 1,2 - formation of play,
- bending of the axes of the geared motors of the OPU antenna drives,
- antenna post No. 1 - weakening of the reception of the KA signal.
- failure of the power adapter of the oscilloscope. The station requires repair by the manufacturer FSUE "Vigetar"
(Moscow).
3). Faulty communication equipment requiring repair by FSUE 771 P3CC ChfMO (Sevastopol) :
1. RPU Katran-KB - there is no audible reception in TLG mode.
2. UD-M211 (of AKBU 83160k composition) - the print head setting is reversed. the document cannot be printed. 3. Ud-M211 (of ShAS T-609 composition) - the print head setting is reversed.
The document cannot be printed.
4. RPDU R-631 No. 2 - the block No. 4 of the VMK-KV exciter does not work. 5. RPDU R-631 No. 3 - does not pass on the way with the AKS Rubka-2K.
6. RPDU R-631 No. 6 - block No. 5 of the VMK-KV exciter does not work. 7. RPU R-680 - when backing up from a distance, the nominal frequency does not change.
8. RPU R-683 - does not go to the reception (constant hissing).

9. TLG P-116 device - punch, transmitter, printing not working
dexterity.
10.R/st R-625 - when the radio is turned on - block No. 5 emits a buzz, block No. 2 - does not interact with other blocks of the radio station.
Electromechanical warhead:
1. Gas turbine generator GTG-1500-2 No. 1 exhausted its resource before overhaul after 5000 hours of operation (has an operating time of 6362 hours). The period of operation was extended by 300 hours under the direction of the Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet for Logistics (GLG No. 49 of 01/06/22
2. Gas turbine generator GTG-1250-2 No. 2 No. 1548809 - resource exhausted before overhaul after 2500 hours of operation (has an operating time of -3140 hours). The period of operation was extended by 500 hours under the direction of the Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet for Logistics (TLG Ne49 or 01/03/22 r.);
3. Gas turbine generator GTT-1500-1 No. 5 No. 1477801 - unusual noise in the gearbox at idle (visible defects were not detected, the resource was exhausted before being amortized) (has an operating time of 28191 hours). A restriction was imposed on the use only in emergencies under the direction of the Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet for Logistics (TLG No. 49 of 01/06/22);
4. The gas turbine generator GTG-1250-1 No. 6, manufacturer No. 1548809, exhausted its resources before decommissioning (has an operating time of 28372 hours). A restriction was imposed on the use only in emergencies under the direction of the Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet for the MTO STLG No. 46 of 01/05/22).

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRc13JMWUAYDmlO?format=jpg&name=small[/img]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRc13fhWYAEy7oy?format=jpg&name=small[/img]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRc2LZ2WUAAOcB4?format=jpg&name=small[/img]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRc2LzbWUAEIARs?format=jpg&name=small[/img]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRc2MGFXIAAtCyH?format=jpg&name=small[/img]

[i]Moskva[/i] was more than 40 years old, hardly modernised, apparently in a bad shape with part of her outdated missile defense systems not working. Why it should be possible to draw any conclusions for modern ships?

Would Electric Boat being in Connecticut have anything to do with his remarks?

This Congressman is suggesting surface warships may be obsolete in the wake of the loss of the Moskva:

[url=https://ca.yahoo.com/news/missile-attack-sunk-prized-russian-175700538.html]Popular Mechanics[/url]

[quote][b][size=200]A Missile Attack Sunk a Prized Russian Cruiser. So Are Surface Warships Obsolete Now?[/size][/b]
Kyle Mizokami
Mon, May 9, 2022, 10:57 a.m.

Ukraine’s dramatic sinking of the cruiser Moskva has one U.S. lawmaker suggesting it’s time to submerge the fleet.

An article in Defense News suggests that the U.S. Navy needs to increase its submarine fleet to survive a future naval conflict.

While surface ships are vulnerable to missile attack, Moskva will likely prove an outlier in the history of naval warfare.

Should the U.S. Navy build more submarines to avoid missile attacks like the one that sank Russia’s Black Sea Fleet flagship, Moskva, last month?[b][u] Representative Joe Courtney (D-Connecticut) argues in a recent op-ed that Moskva’s demise proves anti-ship cruise missiles are a serious threat, and the Navy should be ringing alarm bells. While more submarines are always a good idea, the Navy still needs a varied fleet above the waves to fortify itself against enemies in the world’s oceans.

The article, published May 3 at Defense News, advocates for not only a strong Navy, but a “survivable” one. Courtney says the U.S. government, in the wake of the big cruiser’s sinking, needs to take an “honest look” at “whether the platforms we are fielding to engage our adversaries are both relevant and survivable in modern naval warfare.[/u][/b]”

(...SNIPPED)[/quote]

COMMENTS EDITED OUT- Thank you to the moderators for the thread merge!

"The drone footage shows a burning frigate of the Grigorovich class with a white identification number visible on the side of the ship, however all frigates of that type in the Black Sea (Makarov and Essen) had their numbers painted out in march, as did the rest of the fleet."

https://twitter.com/Kekmeister8/status/1523383232170889216

[url=https://postimages.org/][img]https://i.postimg.cc/fR51ym3w/image.jpg[/img][/url]

"n other words it is fake and most likely taken from a game like Arma 3 or quickly made in a 3D-program as the ship can be downloaded as a 3D model online, the haze is added filters to cover the more obvious signs of this."

https://twitter.com/Kekmeister8/status/1523384197980717056

OSINTdefender:

Open Source Intelligence Monitor currently focused on Eastern Europe and the ongoing Crisis in Ukraine, Geospatial Analyst. RT ≠ Endorsement/Agreement

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1523142792058654721

"At this point I feel as though I can reliably state that the Russian Frigate Admiral Makarov was not hit by Ukrainian Anti-Ship Missiles off the Coast of Odessa, it has been around 72 hours since the Claims first began with No Evidence still thus far just more Claims and Rumors."


The numbers have been erased on the hulls. Several ships of this type are present in the Black Sea.

[url=https://postimg.cc/94Ptvy4x][img]https://i.postimg.cc/jjmgnXRr/Screenshot-2022-05-08-22-11-18-112.jpg[/img][/url]

I'm not having much luck finding plans, let alone a kit to use a starting point to convert to the Project 712 Shakhter.

My local model club has a "in the news" contest theme in a couple of months, so I'm thinking the Moskav would be a pretty quick build, but better with the Shakter as well. Anyone have a lead on GA plans for the tug?

--Scott

[quote="Iceman 29"]« It's Prj. 712 sea rescue tug Shakhter (SB-922).

Note location of fire hoses, levels of the masts &part of the funnel visible behind Moskva.

h/t @Capt_Navy for their pic & @ameliairheart for help! »



[url=https://postimg.cc/235LW050][img]https://i.postimg.cc/sfYYt8CC/1-ADDAE8-A-56-F1-4489-B244-D0-E1-ABBF1-C51.jpg[/img][/url]

[/quote]

From the reports I have seen on TV it seems the US supplied confirmation and imagery to the Ukrainians that the ship was Moskva but were not involved in targeting or engaging the vessel.

Yes, another brick in the wall

It´s confirmed

https://www.elconfidencial.com/tecnologia/2022-05-07/admiral-makarov-putin-buque-mar-negro-neptune_3420677/

[quote="Kometa"]Another Brick on the wall


Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate of the Russian Navy Black Sea Fleet is reportedly on fire near Zmiiny island in Black Sea. Rescue operation ongoing, multiple aircraft, rescue vessels in the area[/quote]

Not confirmed information.

[quote]NEW: U.S. has NO information to corroborate Ukraine striking the Russian frigate Admiral Makarov: Pentagon

"We've been looking at this all day," said Pentagon spokes John Kirby.

https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1522641408334704642

[/quote]

See the other warship website for the latest news of Admiral Marakov being hit by missiles.

The next front? Using whose navy against the Russians now that most of the Ukrainian flotilla is gone???

[url=https://gcaptain.com/black-sea-ukraine-war-admiral-stavridis/]GCaptain / Bloomberg[/url]


[quote][b][size=200]The Black Sea Is The Next Front In The Ukraine War[/size][/b]
Bloomberg
Total Views: 0
May 6, 2022


By James Stavridis (Bloomberg) On the surface, the tiny Ukrainian navy, just 5,000 active-duty sailors and a handful of small coastal boats, appears to be significantly overmatched by Russian maritime forces.
[b][u]The Kremlin’s Black Sea fleet consists of over 40 frontline warships.[/u][/b] The Russians seem poised to cut off the Ukrainian economy from access to the sea — essentially re-creating the Anaconda strategy U.S. President Abraham Lincoln used in the 19th century to choke off the Confederacy.
But Russian success is hardly guaranteed, as the Ukrainians are proving as surprisingly stalwart at sea as they have been on land, already pulling off a handful of successful engagements against Russia’s naval forces.
What does the maritime component of the Ukrainian war look like in the months ahead?
(...SNIPPED)[/quote]

US helped sink Moskva.

LINK: https://www.newsmax.com/headline/russia-ukraine-war-intelligence/2022/05/05/id/1068702/?ns_mail_uid=241ecb8a-c62a-40ba-96e2-00f4b6204628&ns_mail_job=DM330654_05062022&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010502wn9e1k

Another Brick on the wall


Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate of the Russian Navy Black Sea Fleet is reportedly on fire near Zmiiny island in Black Sea. Rescue operation ongoing, multiple aircraft, rescue vessels in the area

Interesting analysis:

Warship Moskva was Blind to Ukrainian Missile Attack, Analysis Shows:

https://news.usni.org/2022/05/05/warship-moskva-was-blind-to-ukrainian-missile-attack-analysis-shows

"Shortly after the sinking, reports emerged that a U.S. Navy P-8A Poseidon was in the area before the attack, suggesting that the U.S. may have provided detailed targeting information to the Ukrainians to target the ship.

Carlson said while the U.S. could give Ukrainian forces a general idea of where the ship was, it could not provide necessary tracking information to the Neptunes because P-8s datalinks were incompatible."

Not surprising:

[url=https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/american-intel-played-a-role-in-sinking-of-russian-warship-reports/ar-AAWYbzX?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=bfff1e9e234f43c1bd82541e37d4aa1b]The Hill[/url]

[quote][b][size=200]American intel played a role in sinking of Russian warship: reports[/size][/b]
Caroline Vakil - 5h ago

American intelligence played a role in Ukraine targeting and ultimately sinking the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, according to multiple news reports, an indication of how U.S. assistance has made tangible impacts amid Russia’s ongoing invasion in Ukraine.

U.S. officials that spoke with NBC News, which was the first to report about the development, and The New York Times indicated that [b][u]the United States helped confirm Ukrainian targeting data for the ship.

Officials that spoke to NBC News said that the decision to attack the Moskva did not involve the U.S. and that it was not aware ahead of time that Ukraine would target the Russian warship.[/u][/b]

The Moskva sank last month after it was hit by two Neptune missiles fired by Ukrainian forces, according to U.S. and Ukrainian officials, causing it to explode and catch fire. The loss of the ship was considered a major blow to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.

(...SNIPPED)[/quote]

The destruction of the cruiser [i]Moskva[/i] and the two patrol boats recently may have temporarily delayed Putin's naval timetable...


[url=https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/russia-struggles-to-turn-black-sea-rule-into-amphibious-attack/ar-AAWRTjo?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=d766526c1f7948bfb483795a27a2823f]Agence-France-Presse[/url]


[quote][b][size=200]Russia struggles to turn Black Sea rule into amphibious attack[/size][/b]
AFP - 19h ago


Russia may rule the Black Sea but any amphibious assault on the Ukrainian coast seems risky so long as Kyiv's defences threaten any warships that venture too close, experts say.
According to British intelligence sources, Russia operates around 20 warships in the Black Sea, although the numbers are static as Turkey, which controls the Bosphorus, blocks any access by vessels belonging to a warring party.

© Jonathan WALTERFactfiles on Ukraine's Neptune and Harpoon anti-ship missile systems
"It's their 'Mare Nostrum'," said Captain Eric Lavault, a spokesman for the French navy -- a reference to the Latin term meaning "Our Sea" used in ancient Rome to describe the Mediterranean.
"Move Your Money by Summer” PhD Economist Warns

Apart from Russia, all the other Black Sea countries already belong to NATO or hope to join it, but this has not cowed Moscow's claim on supremacy.
(...SNIPPED)[/quote]

Exposing the old Russian bear is toothless and clawless, and half blind! :big_grin:
:wave_1: