The Ship Model Forum

Hi Phil,
Thanks for the info. I think I may stick with photo shop. At age 67, I don't really fancy years of study. I can't even manage months and months building a model. Even at one a month, I am getting fed up with it towards the end and looking forward to the next. That BISMARCK looks pretty good to me, but I have very little knoweldge of warships, so don't know whether it is accurate or not.
I think these computer-generated ships are really impressive, but maybe I should stick to the type of models that I have been doing for many years and content myself with simple pictures like the CARMANIA setting above.
Many thanks for all replies
Bob

shipbuilder,

There are basically three methods being used to generate computer images:

1. Photo editing. This is what has been mentioned by tea monster. You take a photo of your ship model and superimpose it on a background image. You can do this in Photoshop (referred to as "PS").

The program Terragen (and other programs) can be used to generate the background image, or you can just use photos and arrange the position and lighting in your model pictures to match.

2. A step above this is the sort of computer generated 3D models and high definition rendering you get with programs like Blender, Rhino, Sketchup, etc. The models look good, but they are not necessarily highly accurate models. These programs typically do not have all of the functions normally used to greate engineering drawings, etc. But they typically have far better rendering capabilities to create pretty images.

Here is an example (Blender):

http://www.max3d.pl/forum/showthread.php?t=63919

3. CAD (Computer Aided Design) programs are engineering tools used to create very precise virtual models. They often have numerical analysis features for design analysis and the ability to drive numerically controlled machine tools and stereolith modelers. They typically do not have as many "pretty image" features.

Here is an example of CAD software (DesignCAD) output:

http://www.okieboat.com/CAD%20model.html

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These are generalizations. I have seen some very good models from programs like Rhino, and some CAD packages have decent rendering packages. In most cases you will need to use more than one program to create 3D ship models and then render the models on seascapes.

No matter what route you take you will have to learn to use the programs, and this can take months to years.

If you try 3D modeling you will have another learning curve to master. I have been doing 3D CAD design for about 20 years and I am still learning.

Getting started in computer ship modeling can be frustrating, but it is very rewarding. Like everything else it takes time and effort to master. Whatever route you choose I strongly suggest you pick a program that has a good user forum.

Prices for software range from $0 (freeware) to $25,000 or more. Fortunately, price is no measure of quality. For generating pretty pictures some freeware programs are far superior to programs that cost many thousands of dollars. And some inexpensive CAD programs are much better suited for hobby ship modeling than the very expensive engineering tools.

Phil

Owen,
Thanks, that sounds just like what I want and I will look into it. It is the outside envoironments of sea and sky that I am after. The model is virtually indistinguishable from the real thing anyway unless it is pointed out that it is a model. I could always get round the sea problem, but not the sky. I suppose the problem will be if a bit of the background shows throught the white parts on the hull. But I now have something to work on. The submarine looks real good.
Bob

Hmmm.... (rubs chin thoughtfully)

If it's just photographing your existing 'real' models. Something like Vue or even 'terragen' could do you a nice water scene. I imagine you would take a picture of your model under sunlight conditions, then you'd fire up Vue or Terragen and position your sun, sky and surf to match the angle of your model and render out your scene. Then you just dub your ship into the middle using Photoshop or similar.

Oh, I should point out here that both Vue and Terragen are for creating and rendering outside environments, they are not for modelling objects.

Terragen allows you to do stuff like this:
[img]http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=674&g2_serialNumber=2[/img]

I have no idea if the sub was dubbed in with PS or was imported as a model into Terragen and rendered. You'll have to investigate that bit yourself!

The first version of Terragen is free (with some render limitations).

Vue - http://www.e-onsoftware.com/

Terragen 1 & 2 : http://www.planetside.co.uk/

Hope this helps

Owen

Thanks very much. I will look into Vue. If I can learn to work it, don't mind paying to get rid of the watermark. The ships are really no problem to me because I would use one of my models photographed from a low angle. Here is a simple picture I made recently by photographing my 21-inch model of CARMANIA from a low angle and sticking a picture of the sea over the bottom and re-scanning. Quite effective!
Bob

Most rendering software can do that sort of stuff. There is software like Vue which specialises in creating a realistic landscape from basically sliders that tell the soft how to arrange things in the scene. There is free version of Vue, but I'm not sure if it's watermarked or not.

But with a little application, you can get realistic sea renders from most software.

Creating the ships might be bit more difficult! Surprisingly, there is a package called 'Poser' that allows the creation of people by just using sliders to determine different body characteristics. But I don't think there is anything like that for 'hard surface' modelling.

Thanks for reply. I was not thinking so much about 3D models, but making computer generated pictures of ships in computer generated seas. I have seen lots of them and find them very impressive, although obviously not real.
Like this sort of thing: http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2009/03/04/30388/ncl-reveals-first-norwegian-epic-pictures.html not modern ships,but more the older types, 1960s and earlier. Was wondering if there is software dedicated to making ship pictures were one could select the sea and sky and then push it around and build a picture of a ship on it.
Bob

3d in general can take quite a while to master. I use a program called Blender, while not a 'CAD' program specifically, allows you to make models in 3D and make pretty pictures of it. There are loads of different programmes and approaches to construction. I can produce something that looks good in a week or two, but I've been using 3D for about 7 years and I go for what the RC guys would call a 'static display model'. It depends on how much detail you want to put into your model and how long you want to spend on making it.

Probably the best thing to do is try making something simple and small and see if you like it or not.

Learning 3D can involve a lot of strange new concepts compared to 'traditional' model building. The big upside is that if something goes pear-shaped, you have an 'undo' button and incremental saves!

We have a[url=http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=82330]thread[/url] in this section where people are sharing tips and helping each other.

Do you have any software or a particular project in mind?

Owen

Good Morning All,
I have never tried this virtual ship modelling on computer, but it is something that I would really like to try. I assume that you need special software for this sort of thing and there are always vague references to CAD, but I seem to draw a blank when it comes to finding out how to make a start.

I don't have a great deal of patience though. Does it take weeks and weeks, or months and months to produce some sort of acceptable result?

As long as I can initially come up with something basic, I can progress from there, but I am not really into countless hours of studying. I am fairly conversant with computers, having started with an Amstrad 8256 in 1984. My current computer, an Acer, can probably cope with these things:
Pentium (R) dual-core CPU
E5200 @ 2.50 Ghz
2 Gb RAM
32-bit operating system.
----
Plenty of HD space on external HD.

From the above, please don't get the idea that I am a computer whizz-kid, I just copied the above from "properties" and it doesn't really mean a great deal to me, although I understand the basic meanings of RAM & memory.

but how do I make a start?

Bob