The Ship Model Forum

I came across some onboard photos of two SIMS class units, USS MORRIS and USS BUCK, at Boston Navy Yard in August-September 1941 as they were completing their King Board Mods on my last trip to NARA. These photos answered a lot of questions and unknowns I had about the configuration for at least seven of the units in this class. First off the basic configuration seen in the Charleston Navy Yard photos was already established BEFORE the 20-mm guns were installed at Charleston Navy Yard as seen in the classic photos of the four units modified there. I'm still puzzled why they put two of the 50-cal MGs on the main deck amidships rather than on the aft deckhouse similar to what was done on the early BENSON-GLEAVES class units. Could have been because of top=weight concerns.

The photos are posted here ... http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=16269&start=160#p706577 ...

These photos are relevant to DD-411 ANDERSON, DD-412 HAMMANN, DD-413 MUSTIN, DD-417 MORRIS, DD-418 ROE (likely), DD-419 WAINWRIGHT (likely), and DD-420 BUCK in the period prior to 20-mm guns being installed. These photos also are helpful for detailing parts of the ship even after the 20-mm guns replaced the 50-cal MGs, particularly in answering what was on the aft deckhouse. There are individual differences between units for things like shape of vents, etc depending on where they were built.

The remaining five SIMS class destroyers, DD-409 SIMS, DD-410 HUGHES, DD-414 RUSSELL, DD-415 O'BRIEN, and DD-416 WALKE, had a different configuration on the aft deckhouse. Here is a cropped view of the aft deckhouse on the five "SIMS group" showing the pre-20-mm configuration.

[url=http://s131.photobucket.com/user/TincanREDavis/media/zdwgDD409x1crop_zpsvuxbqxm1.jpg.html][img]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p303/TincanREDavis/zdwgDD409x1crop_zpsvuxbqxm1.jpg[/img][/url]

Thanks, but to be truthful I suck as a ship modeler, despite building ships from the early '70s on. I'd as likely cut myself from PE as use it correctly. Now sci-fi stuff, especially Trek and BSG, that I can do nice things with.

Bob

Thanks, Bob. That means a lot coming from you. Your work is top drawer, and I am really looking forward to your Fletcher stuff coming on the market.

And yes, doing splinter camouflage on a 350 scale destroyer is pretty interesting.

Rick

Thank you for the kind words. Your models look awesome! I really love the Maddox. She looks really striking with that dazzle paint job!

Bob

Bob,
Just a quick note to let you know that I posted some pics of my USS Anderson using your funnel and deckhouse, on the Completed Models section. They worked great and I was greatly impressed with them. Can't wait for the tear drop shaped aft gun tubs on mid ship gun tubs for the Fletchers.
Rick T/throck3

Bob,
Just a quick note to let you know that I posted some pics of my USS Anderson using your funnel and deckhouse, on the Completed Models section. They worked great and I was greatly impressed with them. Can't wait for the tear drop shaped aft gun tubs on mid ship gun tubs for the Fletchers.
Rick T/throck3

[quote="Par429"]As you can see I have started on a [i]USS Hammann[/i], using the [i]USS Livermore[/i] kit.[/quote]

Those parts look great. Phil - you should start a work in progress thread in the picture post forum. I'm sure a lot of guys would like to follow along.

Hey-
Yes, I'm very happy with the parts. Thanks!

And that is how the parts look to the eye straight out of the packaging. The aft deckhouse is very white, the stack lightly yellow and the mid deckhouse very yellow. I plan to wash them tonight and see if that changes anything.

Thanks,
Phil

Sweet! I hope you are happy with the parts. One thing, you may want to consider priming the interiors of the deckhouses whatever color you're going to pain their exteriors in case the exterior paint ever flakes away or is damaged. That way, the translucence of the parts won't be noticed.

Just curious, why is the midships deckhouse looking yellow? Is that a trick of the light or did Shapeways print it weirdly?
.

Bob

[quote="aptivaboy"]Do you mean Benson or Benham? The funnel is intended to convert the basic Benson model into a Sims, but the Benson had two funnel to the Sims one. As for the Benham, while I don't have the particulars in front of me, I don't believe the Sims and Benham funnels were identical. Perhaps someone else could chime in, but I believe the Benham funnel was asymmetrical. I may be thinking of the Bagleys instead of the Benhams, now that I think on it.[/quote]
The Benham and Sims funnels had a close relationship, since both classes used the same powerplant, but they were not identical. I am not sure, but I think the proportions of the trunking were a bit different. The Benham funnel was slightly taller and lacked the angled cap. The Bagley funnel was symmetrical, essentially taking the two funnels of the Dunlap class and trunking them into a single upper stack. It was the Gridley class (4 ships) that had the asymmetrical trunking.

Hey-
I just wanted to say thanks. My parts arrived recently and I think they look great! Well done, thanks for the effort!
As you can see I have started on a [i]USS Hammann[/i], using the [i]USS Livermore[/i] kit.

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/par429/media/USS%20Hammann/hammann_zpswgkqisz9.jpg.html][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/par429/USS%20Hammann/hammann_zpswgkqisz9.jpg[/img][/url]

Phil

Sorry, meant Benham class. Good catch. The fingers were working faster than the brain.

Upon comparing the photos found on Navsource of the various Benham class boats, I think your funnel is very close. A simple flattening of the funnel cap, and reworking the entry point of the vent pipe on the aft side of the stack from the trunking plating, relocating the mushroom vent, should give a pretty close representation of the Benham funnel. I did a side be side comparison of the resin parts to your funnel (mounted on my Sims Anderson) and they were pretty much the same, yours being much more detailed. I may be all wet, but it looks correct to me.

I wonder is the design engineers on the Benhams were the same as on the Sims units, and simply utilized the same structure design for the stack on both types (with slight refinements on the latter type).

Rick

Hi,

Do you mean Benson or Benham? The funnel is intended to convert the basic Benson model into a Sims, but the Benson had two funnel to the Sims one. As for the Benham, while I don't have the particulars in front of me, I don't believe the Sims and Benham funnels were identical. Perhaps someone else could chime in, but I believe the Benham funnel was asymmetrical. I may be thinking of the Bagleys instead of the Benhams, now that I think on it. Any help?

I hope you get a lot of fun building whichever DD you choose, and I hope the funnel meets your expectations. I certainly don't want to produce crummy parts. That I most definitely do not want to do.

Bob

Bob,
I just ordered a second one of your Sims funnels. I've been looking through some 1/350 YMW destroyers that I had in the stash, thinking I would break over and build a resin ship. I found that the Sims funnel, with VERY little modification seems to be the perfect replacement for the funnel on the Benson class destroyers. With your funnel, and lots of left over Dragon destroyer parts, torpedo tubes, 20mm guns, ready ammunition lockers, vents, etc., and after market 5" guns, it should turn out a pretty decent kit. I also need to find a decent replacement for that funky, early main gun director.
Rick

The after deckhouse is up!

http://www.shapeways.com/product/2R4NFS26Q/uss-hughes-russell-after-deckhouse-1-350th-scale?li=search-results-1&optionId=57475694

Thank you! Those look super! Great paintwork.

Bob

Bob,
I posted three photos of my Sims conversion using your stack and TT deckhouse, in the Destroyers and Frigates section of Calling All Ship Fans above. I was very pleased with the outcome. I'll get a better collection of shots of it as soon as I get some corrections made, and it properly weathered and flat coated. I am very impressed with your work.
Rick/throck3

Hi,

I hope the parts work out for you!

I can certainly try to downscale it to 1/700th. The big problem is that the splinter shielding is already super thin, about 0.4mm thin. In downscaling, I'd have to keep the shielding at least that width for it to be printable, and that would mean that the small details would likely appear overscale. I'm not sure if the steering station parts would print that small. But yes, I can look into it.

Bob

Bob, The deck house looks great. I have the funnel and TT deck house on order and they should be here this week (Shapeways says my order shipped). With my next order I will get the aft deck house if available. I have the old Classic Warships Sims, Benham and Bagley kits in 1/350 resin, but no Gridley. These are old kits with the Benham and Bagley being very good. The Benham kit has the correct funnel uptake trunking.

Do you think the aft deck house you are working on could be scaled down to 1/700 scale? It would be nice to be able use it on the 1/700 Tamiya kit to build other units. I know the supports would be a problem, but these could be added in 1/700 with wire or PE. Hoping you still plan to do something with the Portland 1942 in 1/350 and maybe scalable to 1/700.

Other than the breakage, it looks good. The fit between the base ring and the kit turrets isn't superb so I'll remeasure the opening. Otherwise, good. It looks to be slightly longer than the cutout for the kit deckhouse, so I'm hopeful that it accords with Mr. Davis's observations about the length of the Sims-class after deckhouse. I'd post a pic but the camera crapped out on me and anyway the part is still slightly moist from priming. Tomorrow, at the latest.

The good news is that simply by clipping off the little raised "ears" on the splinter shielding, it should be possible to convert the Hughes deckhouse into a Russell late-'41 through Midway. A sharp pair of sprue cutters should easily and neatly do the job.

EDIT: here there are. Tell me what looks good, what needs fixing, etc.

Thanks!

Bob
[url=http://s231.photobucket.com/user/aptivaboy/media/Sims-class%20destroyer%20conversion/HPIM0082_zpscdb1qdp9.jpg.html][img]http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Sims-class%20destroyer%20conversion/HPIM0082_zpscdb1qdp9.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://s231.photobucket.com/user/aptivaboy/media/Sims-class%20destroyer%20conversion/HPIM0081_zps55jkhuvb.jpg.html][img]http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Sims-class%20destroyer%20conversion/HPIM0081_zps55jkhuvb.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://s231.photobucket.com/user/aptivaboy/media/Sims-class%20destroyer%20conversion/HPIM0078_zpsmcila7mg.jpg.html][img]http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Sims-class%20destroyer%20conversion/HPIM0078_zpsmcila7mg.jpg[/img][/url]

In the photo above, you can see how the forward end of the deckhouse extends just past the "putty line" where the kit deckhouse would fit. I'm hoping these means the conversion part is slightly longer than the kit part as per Mr Davis' observations.

[url=http://s231.photobucket.com/user/aptivaboy/media/Sims-class%20destroyer%20conversion/HPIM0076_zpsr3bouhpq.jpg.html][img]http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Sims-class%20destroyer%20conversion/HPIM0076_zpsr3bouhpq.jpg[/img][/url]

The side intakes are also done and printable in Frosted Extreme Detail, or so Shapeways claims. I'll order them with the Fletcher test parts to save on shipping in a week or so. I'm trying hard to get everything done before school starts next week. I'm a California public high school teacher. Please pray for me.

Bob