The Ship Model Forum

Anyone knows how the Gulio Cesare was repainted by USSR in 1940s -50s?

I found two versions in contemporary searches. Photos are also hard to understand. I present two version - white-red or white-black-red. 1 or 2?

Anyone has good evidence or thoughts? I found very few color photos of ships of the era, naturally, but one of them is 1954 parade in Leningrad and Sevastopol of some cruisers, which both had black boot topping showing in both instances (red is also photographed as a band on a funnel, so can tell the film is not misleading). Yet models of the ship do not show the black part. Dry dock of Novorossyisk shows black (or dark red) also but from 1949. Also same cruiser was painted without black in another photo. Apparently they would paint the black one at some point, while others - not have it. Both versions probably OK in general...

My theory - on Novorossiysk - it was black because it was a training ship and spent most of the time in port, and would foul up of course more, so black made a lot of sense.

So for model purposes, the white - black - red (2) makes most sense, but prove me wrong if you can?

Regarding painting the superstructure parts, this has always been a major effort for me with dazzle camouflage patterns. When the superstructure is in one or two parts, this can be done with brushing before gluing the parts into place on the hull; at least the part to be glued can be held at various angles to access every section. What I do first is spray or airbrush the lightest color on the whole section (e.g, the bridge), including the bridge deck undersides, then brush on the darker color(s) afterward. I have found that using paints of different types (acrylic for one color, oil-based enamel for another) minimizes smearing when one color overlaps another. It is tedious, but that is part of building a detailed model. Frequent touch-ups of the colors will be necessary to assure straight line or gentle curve separation, which is usually the case in the superstructure sections. I've attached two photos of the port and starboard sides of the bridge and nearby structures. The model still isn't completed; I'm awaiting the arrival of 3D-printed twin 37mm and twin 20mm AA guns, as well as porthole scuttles.

I have based my painting scheme on available online photos of the Andrea Doria (there are fairly good ones of the port side) but relied on a color diagram for the starboard side. If your diagrams are correct, then my starboard side painting is very INCORRECT. Since the shapes are mostly curves, I first free-hand draw a pencil line on the hull above the waterline and then hand-color in the camo blotches with a brush. Painting the superstructure parts in different colors is often quite tedious, and when everything comes in a single structure, such as the new 3D-printed, kits, I first spray everything with a primer that doubles as a light gray, which often requires no further attention. Where margins are straight lines (especially for the waterline), I use blue masking tape and paint free-hand, though if the surfaces are large enough I will use airbrushing, which generally gives a smoother and more uniform coverage. In order to establish a waterline where there is no indication in the hull as to where it should be, I select a position that I think is where it should be (based on illustrations or the actual draft from online sources, converted into a 1/350 measure), and tape a fine-tipped sharpie pen firmly to a wooden block with its tip positioned at the waterline and then move the block along the waterline while holding the hull still; sometimes, depending on the flatness of the keel, I will move the hull along the sharpie tip while holding the block steady. It can be a little awkward, but when masking off the rest of the hull (especially when airbrushing the lower hull and keel) I try to keep the port and starboard sides even with one another. This often gets tricky where the hull may curve, such as at the stern, but it usually works out. The black boot topping, where present, can be done either with black paint or a black sharpie, with the hull colors above and below masked off with tape to leave a bare strip for the boot topping. My choice of colors depends on what I need and sometimes I will mix paints for a specific model if I don't have exactly what is called for -- this has been a particular problem since the withdrawal from commercial sales of many Tamiya acrylics and, especially, Model Master enamels.

How do you paint the various bridge decks, as they are all cast in one piece ?

I would prefer designers to print those decks into more subparts.

Does anybody out there in ship model-building land know where, more or less precisely, where the twin 20mm AA guns on the Andrea Doria (ca. 1942) were situated? Wikipedia states that there were 14 20mm guns in twin mounts by 1942-43, but I haven't been able to determine where they were located. I've attached a photo of my build so far.

For more of a detailed review, I would add to my initial posting that the (apparently) Globaltoy 1/350 Andrea Doria has superb detail on the decks, and the superstructure parts are equally detailed, including not just the paravanes on the barbette of turret No. 2, but their finely crafted hoists and cables. The anchor chains and anchors are molded into the forecastle but well-formed nonetheless. The turrets' big guns have hollowed out muzzles but the holes are too small; for scale accuracy they would need to be opened up with a 0.9 mm drill bit (which is what I used); the secondary guns have no hollowed out muzzles and are probably too fragile to attempt to do so. Detaching the larger parts from the casting trees (which can be somewhat brittle) is fairly easy but requires care and good eyesight; extracting the masts and boat derricks intact will require patience and fine cutting tools and tweezers. The motor launches and other small boats are very well-cast and even, where needed, have tiny propellers, rudders and railings, and their boat cradles, molded into the boat deck, are finely made and perforated. The 37 mm single and 20 mm twin guns are decently made but their barrels are flimsy and often bent; you could do better with photoetch replacements. The funnels are separately cast, with attached life rafts and detailed tops, whereas most of the bridge is a single piece attached to the deck behind it; a separate top range finder is provided with a small mast attached, which in my my kit was warped (something I can usually solve by quickly passing such a part over a candle flame and then bending it to remove any curves). The ten 3.5-in. AA guns are somewhat plain, with the barrels molded into the tops of the mounts, pointing straight ahead (horizontally) and no slots beneath or above them. What is really needed for this kit is a decent painting schematic; I have found one online that shows the starboard side and overhead view, but nothing for the port side other than relatively low-detail wartime photos that don't quite distinguish the different shades of gray and light blue on both the hull and superstructure (other than the wide dark gray bands). So if anyone knows of such an illustration, I would be very grateful for the reference.

an indepth review would be very welcome !

that picture you posted is of an Italian battleship not French.

My mistake on the manufacturer of the new 1:350 Bretagne; it is likely to be Globaltoy, which has recently released a number of other beautiful 3D-printed models of WWI era battleships..

This may be old news to you by now, but the Chinese 3D-printed SSModel 1:350 has recently been released, and I purchased one from our "favorite" online auction site. The hull is beautifully cast in two pieces (everything it orange resin) that join together very easily, with a slight bulge at the junction. The guns, boats and superstructure parts are also very well-cast and fit properly in place, but there is no photoetch and there are NO assembly instructions; the modeler should use online photos for proper placement of everything as well as a painting guide. The only blemishes, which are minor, are numerous very small pegs and pits in the hull sections near the bow and stern, easily cut away with razors, removed with fine sandpaper, or filled with a small amount of putty. The ladders are well-formed and molded in place, but without any railings, so the modeler may want to replace them with more realist photoetch pieces -- railing will be needed for the decks as well.

HI,
Does anyone know if finally there is a 1/350 kit of Andrea Doria class ? EVA released a 1/350 kit of Giulio Cesare some years ago, but up to now, I have never seen anything about the Doria ?

How similar are the hulls between Conti De Cavour class and Caio Duilios?

Are they essentially identical? To a point one can use lower hull from like Andrea Doria and use it for Giulio Cezare.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Italian-Battleships-Cavour-Classes-1911-1956/dp/1526799871/ref=pd_lpo_14_t_0/257-1681554-2648221?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1526799871&pd_rd_r=b0ca4d7d-6fa6-4719-9d9a-adeb2e72ae63&pd_rd_w=qifUV&pd_rd_wg=EzT4m&pf_rd_p=da0677f5-a47b-4543-8b54-10be576b8f26&pf_rd_r=J2KFHJJTGAJQRT99W7K1&psc=1&refRID=J2KFHJJTGAJQRT99W7K1

These authors' Littorio Class book was excellent so if this one is to a similar standard it should be a very useful reference.

Are there any photos of the plaque on Cesare’s C turret? Was it removed during the war? I’ve seen it in a few photos but not in any detail.

OK thanks.

Here's a shot next to my Littorio to give a size comparison!

Nice! I have the kit in the post, too.

Colors are probably Grigio Chiaro and Grigio Scuro. I am going to use the lifecolor regia marina set for painting.

I would also get this book from the library, when starting:
https://www.amazon.de/Italian-Naval-Cam ... 1526735393

Here are some pics of the new Orange Hobby Caio Duilio kit. I have no idea as to the overall accuracy. There are 2 PE frets, sets of brass barrels for the main, secondary and 3.5-inch AA guns, decals including "DVILIO" for the stern, and a wooden stand that has to be assembled for a full hull build. There is a 6-page instruction sheet and a painting guide.

The paint guide needs guidance! First, it shows fewer red/white stripes than the CAD pictures of the model and the camo colours need clarification - "light sand" and "navy grey", with "deck ash" for the steel decks.

Does anyone know the actual RM colours? The scheme is similar to that worn by Vittorio Veneto in 1941 and the WEM site says the colours on VV were Grigio Scuro (dark grey), Giallo Verde (yellow-green), Bianco Sporco Opaco (matte off-white). Would it have been the same for Duilio?

As Orange Hobby released the Caio Duilio 1941 - did anyone yet checked this kit? I ordered it for Christmas, to have some opponents to my planned Queen Elizabeth and several british destroyers and cruisers in build or planned.

Please send photos to the gallery so we can all enjoy it. Definitely not something you see everyday.