The Ship Model Forum

The conversion into a post 1943 fit would require a lot of work:

new upper part of the bridge
modified foremast with new radars and lattice-type upper part of the mast
new funnel cap for the forward funnel
new superstructure where the hangar had been
new positions for the light AA guns (and new light AA guns) on the forecastle, on and around the bridge, midships, on the rear superstructure and the quarterdeck...
...

I recently purchased the new Trumpeter 1/350 Marseillaise kit. Any opinions on this new kit? If at all possible and doable, I would like to convert this into either the Georges Leygues, Montcalm or Gloire in their 1943 appearance. How much work would this involve?


TIA

Darcy

[quote="Gcj"]Frank

Thanks for those pictures. Very helpfull, not least because that is contemporary footage of a ship that should be painted in Gris Clair No 1. Given previously what shade of grey that colour was was mainly guesswork that is quite a find. Just one question. Does that film include any RN ships painted in 507c? 507c is a known colour so a picture from the same film would help greatly in putting Gris Clair in context i.e. lighter, darker or with more blue say than 507c.[/quote]

507C? Yes, I believe it does: At the top left of the image below (which should not be reposted elsewhere), we see H.M.S. "Amphion" (soon to be "Perth"). She seems to be in 507C (though it is patchy-looking, or perhaps its part of her transition to the RAN). Below her on the left is "Dunkerque." The righthand side of the image shows "Gorgeous Legs" being tossed around by very large waves. Please note that the image of D was taken in conditions of direct sun whereas the shots of GL are all on a very nasty day.

[attachment=0]multiview.jpg[/attachment]

Frank

Thanks for those pictures. Very helpfull, not least because that is contemporary footage of a ship that should be painted in Gris Clair No 1. Given previously what shade of grey that colour was was mainly guesswork that is quite a find. Just one question. Does that film include any RN ships painted in 507c? 507c is a known colour so a picture from the same film would help greatly in putting Gris Clair in context i.e. lighter, darker or with more blue say than 507c.

[quote="moomoon"]I don't have my litterature about the La Galissonniere cruisers class here but I remember that decks and roofs were dark grey (either natural metal or paint?), linolem or wood (some ships had linoleum, others wood deck at the stern).[/quote]

This response is a few years late (and I'm not sure that it really helps at all) but I present it nonetheless: Shown here are two colour views of [i]"Gorgeous Legs"[/i] ([i]Georges Leygues[/i]) as she appeared during a joint British/French patrol under the command of VAdm Marcel Gensoul in late November/early December 1939. [i]Dunkerque[/i] and [i]Montcalm[/i] were also present (but in the film from which these views were captured, there's only a brief view of [i]Dunkerque [/i]from astern and no shots of [i]Montcalm[/i]). Nasty weather!

I personally can't see much detail of the deck, but she was definitely light grey (and had a red bottom).

[attachment=0]GorgeousLegs39a.jpg[/attachment]
and
[attachment=1]GorgeousLegs39b.jpg[/attachment]

I have inquired about the mounts for both Richelieu and Algerie from MicroMaster hopefully some day they are available. He does make excellent main armament for Algerie and Richelieu.

If these are the same guns, you can ask also Micromaster, if he can also makes that one. With all the plastic Richelieu kits, there could be sufficient demand.

Hi Maxim
Many thanks for your prompt and helpful response. It seems the Richelieu did have the same mounts (well they look the same to me). At least the mounts on Trumpeter's Richelieu are open backed. So if all else fails...

Between 1934-37, the quad 13,2 mm guns were all on the first superstructure deck.

The forward pair was in front of the forward 100 mm twin, the rear pair was behind the most rear 100 mm twin.

I cannot remember any producer for these 100 mm guns, but Richelieu had the same guns. Were these on the same mounting? (I have no literature about Richelieu).

The plans of Algérie as built had been available online from one of the French archives, but because of hacker attacks had to be removed - I have just not found an alternative online source. I have them.

Just received my birthday present to myself – Combrig’s 1/700 Algerie. Wow what a kit, just so well detailed. Fortunately, I have the Profile Morskie to supplement the otherwise poor instructions. But to do the kit justice I have a couple of questions. Hopefully I am in the right place to get them answered.

The only thing that lets the kit down in my view are the weapons. The single 37mm are nice and detailed and the quad MGs are fine (they are very similar to the USN Chicago piano mounts of which 3d model parts make a nice example but that wouldn’t be quite right?). The twin 37mm mounts are OK (but gluing individual 37mm barrels??) but as I intend to build her pre war I don’t need these. The 8” turrets are nice but Micromaster do even better ones which are tempting. But the let down is the 1931 twin 100mm mounts which should have an open back but the ones in the kit are solid and lack detail. Micromaster do some very nice 1937 model twin 100mm but these are fully enclosed so not right for the Algerie. Anyone got any bright ideas or know of a manufacturer I have overlooked?
As I want to model her prewar I will have to remove the cowl on the stack. In 1938 the AA fit was modified with the 4 single 37mm moved to the rear, and 2 of the quad MGs were moved from rear of the boat deck – one to on top of the bridge and one to the rear slightly offset. I am OK on their 1938 locations but have no info on the original location of the 2 quad MGs that were moved other than rear boat deck which isn’t precise enough and I would like to build her in 1937 fit. Any ideas?

I purchased a Poseidon La Galissonniere on eBay. It’s sort of funky because you assemble the hull out of heavy duty Photo etch and they included no instructions. I had to fix the errors that prevented the parts from fitting right (missing slots in the PE and removing a section that shouldn’t have been there) but it’s building up nice. I do have a new WSW kit to check hull features against. I may do a build thread in “picture posts” to show the kit, but it will only show the final hull assembly since I didn’t take pictures of the problem parts. I tried contacting Poseidon for the instructions but they don’t bother to respond.

Impressive scratch building! :thumbs_up_1:

[quote="maxim"]Nice Models!

Which kit do you used? And which for the De Zeven Provinciën-class cruiser in background?[/quote]

All no kit except kirov
[attachment=0]P1050657S.JPG[/attachment]

Nice Models!

Which kit do you used? And which for the De Zeven Provinciën-class cruiser in background?

[attachment=0]P1050654S.JPG[/attachment][attachment=0]P1050654S.JPG[/attachment]

Yes, it is Kersaint built using the L'Arsenal T-47B 1/700 kit. The Tartar version would be interesting! I hope that L'Arsenal will release it - or I have to convert it myself.

Back to the light cruisers of the La Galissonniére class:

[img]http://www.modellmarine.de/images/builders/lscharff/georges_leyques/georges-leyques04.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.modellmarine.de/images/builders/lscharff/georges_leyques/georges-leyques02.jpg[/img]

This is the Georges Leyques built in her 1956 fit (Suez Crisis). I built her using the WSW kit, which depicts her 1946 fit. I added the main mast, removed the midships 20 mm Oerlikon, altered the boats and radars. WSW offers the post-war version, HP Models has kits of the original fit and the fit after the modernisation in the US in 1943. The WSW kit is now old, which can be seen in the details, e.g. the AA guns, which have to be replaced (by Niko Models and 3D Model Parts).

For more information see here:
[url=http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4744:franzoesischer-leichter-kreuzer-georges-leyques-1700-wsw-von-lars-scharff&catid=112:lars]Georges Leyques (1/700, WSW)[/url]

I just wanted to say 'thank you' to you folks for helping me depict a more accurate ALGERIE. Good insight here, as usual!

About Painting of French warship, the info I have are (main source is the excellent serie of books about the french torpedo boats and destroyers published by Marine Editions)

[u]1908:[/u]
blue grey (looking darker than the grey used before)
[u]08/11/1929:[/u]
light grey (mix of white and black [u]only[/u])
[u]26/08/1931:[/u]
red-brown paint on deck not covered by linoleum (paint has about the same color than the linoleum)
[u]09/12/1937:[/u]
glossy light grey
[u]1937:[/u]
temporary national markings on some main guns of ships operating around Spain (civil war), became permanent markings in Sept 1937 for ships based in Toulon till April 1939
[u]06/01/1940:[/u]
dark grey for ships operating in the North Atlantic
A light [u]blue[/u] grey "similar to today's French Navy tint" reapplied when ships got back to Toulon and the Mediterranean.
[u]17/07/1940:[/u]
national markings reapplied on some of the main guns

I don't have my litterature about the La Galissonniere cruisers class here but I remember that decks and roofs were dark grey (either natural metal or paint?), linolem or wood (some ships had linoleum, others wood deck at the stern).

About the reddish paint at the fore part of deck, check this painting from Marin Marie, a great painter who if I remember well was at Mers El Kebir during the sad events of 03/07/1940 (anyway he was in Noth Africa and he was an official painter for the French Navy). Here we have Dunkerque battlecruiser (Noth Atlantic area dark grey) and La Provence battleship (which have no wooden deck, Mediterranean area light grey).
[attachment=2]zz.jpg[/attachment]
Same tint appears on Normandie
[attachment=1]zz1.jpg[/attachment]
The 10000t cruiser Duquesne at Paris Marine museum also has a reddish foredeck (so does the Dunkerque battlecruiser in the same museum)
[attachment=0]zzz.jpg[/attachment]
However the last 10000t cruiser Algerie in again the same museum has a dark grey foredeck...

First time I have heard that but if you have a color photo, I guess someone painted it red. It's funny, I remember seeing pictures in publications of British destroyers and cruisers,pre-war with brown or red brown on the fore part of the ship. The old Warship in Profile series shows that on Cossack and Exeter. I wonder if John at WEM could be talked into comming out with an early French Warship line for colorcoats? There seems to be more French ship kits on the market. If someone ever does a Dunkerque or Algerie, we would have to have it.