The Ship Model Forum

[i]Do you know anything about this, and why some look to have a cover (or have a cover in actuality) and some just show the exposed cables with brackets attached directly over the cables?[/i]

Well, I'm aware of the practice, but I'm not sure why a box cover was used in some circumstances, and not in others. I suspect that the idea was to provide some protection against sea action, weather, and possibly shell splinters. I think that as the war dragged on, and material shortages loomed, there was less of an inclination to use the enclosure.

This is not a certainty. There are photos of various DDs early in the war either without a cover, or showing a mix of cable in which some, but not all, is exposed. Like the one of Asashio below.

The same is true for larger vessels.

[quote="Dan K"][quote]I am NOT going to “count any more rivets” on this issue[/quote]

I'll bet. Should I hold my breath on this? :big_grin:

Factually, there appear to be 3 bands of plating, BUT the waterline divides the bottom band in half. So, technically, there are two and a half bands above the waterline mark. See below.

The actual end point of Yukikaze's stern in the photo below is just a few feet further to the right and out of view.

Akishimo is a following Yugumo class ship, but the hulls are essentially the same, save for the inclined stern of the Yugumo type. It's pretty clear.[/quote]


I just noticed something about Degaussing Cables in the first photo:

[attachment=0]FEC0257D-2837-4E77-B788-52ADA109C5F1.jpeg[/attachment]

The Degaussing Cable here looks to have a “cover” of some sort over it.

While I have seen other photos where the cables are exposed (even on the little Sub-Chasers I am now trying to re-build after a catastrophe with the maid and then flooding — Ironic that ships would be harmed by flooding, even if just models), I have noticed on IJN and Allied Ships that some have what appears to be a cover over the DeGaussing Cable.

Do you know anything about this, and why some look to have a cover (or [b]have[/b] a cover in actuality) and some just show the exposed cables with brackets attached directly over the cables?

MB

[quote="Dan K"][quote]I am NOT going to “count any more rivets” on this issue[/quote][/quote]

I'll bet. Should I hold my breath on this? :big_grin:

Dan ... I would NOT place my bet on that ... but I have all the good intention to at least try ... :smallsmile: :smallsmile: :smallsmile:

Now ... seriously Sir ... THANK YOU!!! This is exactly what I needed. The 3rd photo is new to me!!! Everything is clear!!!

Wishing you a great weekend.

Regards

Paris

[quote]I am NOT going to “count any more rivets” on this issue[/quote]

I'll bet. Should I hold my breath on this? :big_grin:

Factually, there appear to be 3 bands of plating, BUT the waterline divides the bottom band in half. So, technically, there are two and a half bands above the waterline mark. See below.

The actual end point of Yukikaze's stern in the photo below is just a few feet further to the right and out of view.

Akishimo is a following Yugumo class ship, but the hulls are essentially the same, save for the inclined stern of the Yugumo type. It's pretty clear.

Dear All

Continuing my research on Yukikaze and before I take my sanding sticks and my strips of Tamiya 0,1mm Plastic Paper to replicate the alternating longitudinal bands to replicate the hull plating, I have to ask my last (?) question of this issue.

I have as my guide Kagero’s Publications 3D plans for IJN Kagero plus photos of the new Pit-Road / Flyhawk 1/700 Yukikaze. They both clearly depict on the ship’s stern, 3 rows of longitudinal bands replicating hull plating above waterline. On the other hand my 1/350 Tamiya kit has 2 rows of longitudinal bands replicating hull plating above waterline.

Dan … any thoughts, Sir?

I can’t make my mind studying photos of the real vessel. Sometimes I “see” 3 rows and other times I “see” 2 rows…

In the end I will choose a path and stick to it… The only reason I make this question is to make sure that there is nothing major I am missing on the ship’s history.

I am NOT going to “count any more rivets” on this issue, but if you have any thoughts on this, I would be grateful to read them.

Thank you All and be safe.

Paris

[quote="Dan K"]These two attachments should help.[/quote]
Wow...those are officially the third and fourth pics of [i]Natsushio[/i] I've ever seen.

[quote]While the record on the Funnel Bands might be incomplete, and that of the Administrative Hiragana (or is it Katakana?) not firmly adhered to, where might I find that which we do know (and that which is suspected, and so on) of each?[/quote]

AFAIK, no one has ever fully documented the funnel band changes. I certainly haven't. Too much is unknown.

[quote]at least 3 or 4 different degaussing patterns[/quote]

That we know of. The photo record is woefully incomplete. There aren't even photos of all 19 Kageros. So, the same hurdle remains for the tertiary piping, though there are more commissioning/trials photos of the ships. I think that at least 12 Kageros have photos that can ID this arrangement on funnel #1.

[quote="Dan K"]To answer your questions, Matt:

Yes, they were structurally identical, and yes, any of the Pit-Road kits should work, as long as they are early war fits.

Yard color could be used to differentiate them to some extent, but not for very long. Paint fades quickly.

The funnel band record is incomplete, so that may or may not be helpful. Plus, each ship in the division would likely have a single hiragana symbol painted on (usually) #1 funnel denoting administrative position. But, we can't confirm that this practice was firmly adhered to.
[/quote]


The yard colors do fade quickly, but the paints they used have different chemicals which produce a slightly different weathering coloration due to the seawater (the chlorine in the salt tends to like a lot of the pigments in the different Greys of each yard, and will produce greenish, blackish, or whitish colorations along with the typical buildup of salt, wear on the paint, and chips/nicks/etc. And the different colors will likely occur more dominantly in the yard colors that were either Lighter or more “bluish”). But overall they would help to at least produce a base to work from.

As for Funnel Bands & Administrative Markings for Divisions/Squadrons…

While the record on the Funnel Bands might be incomplete, and that of the Administrative Hiragana (or is it Katakana?) not firmly adhered to, where might I find that which we do know (and that which is suspected, and so on) of each?


[quote="Dan K"]Degaussing patterns varied between ships but, again, the record is very incomplete as to which vessel carried which pattern.[/quote]

I saw the comments on these, where you said there were at least 3 or 4 different degaussing patterns.

[quote="Dan K"]Also, the tertiary piping on # 1 funnel leading to the steam whistles varied a lot between ships. Again, the record is incomplete on these.

HTH, Dan[/quote]

What record does exist?

MB

Btw, I've finally begun listing kits on P1. Just a few more years now...........

To answer your questions, Matt:

Yes, they were structurally identical, and yes, any of the Pit-Road kits should work, as long as they are early war fits.

Yard color could be used to differentiate them to some extent, but not for very long. Paint fades quickly.

The funnel band record is incomplete, so that may or may not be helpful. Plus, each ship in the division would likely have a single hiragana symbol painted on (usually) #1 funnel denoting administrative position. But, we can't confirm that this practice was firmly adhered to.

Degaussing patterns varied between ships but, again, the record is very incomplete as to which vessel carried which pattern.

Also, the tertiary piping on # 1 funnel leading to the steam whistles varied a lot between ships. Again, the record is incomplete on these.

HTH, Dan

I missed Paris's question from back in February. So, hopefully, my reply is still helpful

[quote]1. Do we know the pattern of the plates bellow the waterline?[/quote]

Well, the hull strakes alternated, just as they did above the waterline.

[quote]2 My second question is more important to me. Do you know if the plates on the ship’s hull were welded or were they bolted?[/quote]

Both. Welded throughout, plus riveted in the midsection to help with rigidity.

These two attachments should help.

I saw earlier a comment by Dan K where he said that the Kagerō-class ships were essentially identical as built.

Does that mean in 1941/42 they were still “structurally identical” prior to the loss of the “bows” on two of them in early-43, where I saw it mentioned that the Shiranui might have had the bridge reconstructed with the sloping front of the Yūgumo-class?

And as such, I would assume that the newer Pit-Road kits would work for any of the 19 Kagerō-class pre-debowing of two of them in ‘43?

I know that the TROM should give an indication of the color of the different units (Maizuru, Kure, Yokosuka) as one way of differentiating some of them.

And some still carried the Funnel Stripes into 1942 (and maybe 1943 from some photos in the thread).

But are there any features that would allow some of them to be more immediately differentiated from the others?

MB

Dear All

From time to time I play around trying to have progress with my first 1/350 model, the Tamiya IJN Yukikaze.
I have the Tamiya (Pontos) detail set to improve the kit from the waterline and above, but I really have to do something bellow the waterline. The kit’s one piece (red) hull has no detail at all. It seems to me strange to have surface detail above the waterline and no detail bellow. So I am prepared to create some detail (with extra thin plastic sheets or masking and spraying Mr. Surfacer 500) to create the illusion of the metal plates, similar to those that are prominent above the waterline.

At this point I have 2 questions that I would like to share with you. I would be happy if you could give me your thoughts on them …

1. Do we know the pattern of the plates bellow the waterline? I have being unable to find good photos of the Kagero class on a dry dockyard to have a clue of the pattern of the plates … so I do not know how to proceed. My most probable way out, is to follow the pattern of the Fujimi 1/700 kit (which have some detail bellow the waterline). I don’t know why Tamiya omitted the surface details in this area. Is it possible the surface detail was flashed out completely in the real ship for better speed and performance, so Tamiya is correct?

2 My second question is more important to me. Do you know if the plates on the ship’s hull were welded or were they bolted? To be honest I cannot see any bolts on any Kagero class hull, but if I am mistaken, it is better to know now (that I can do something about it) than later, when I have already put hours and hours on my model …

As always, all your opinions will be very helpful!!!

With Best Regards
Paris Tsirchoglou
Greece

Wow. That's some really nice groundwork work for the oil canning of the hull.

The interesting thing about the navigation light boxes is that many Kageros (and other DDs) do show a darker coloration on that backboard both prior to and during the war. But not all.
I'm under the impression that the navigation lights weren't even used during wartime, at least at night.

I really don;t know what to make of it.

[quote="Dan K"]PM me with your email address for a full size version of this.[/quote]

Hi Dan,
I used a bit of artistic freedom with the painting of frames. Based on the Kagero drawing the frame spacing in the bow & stern was around 600 mm and in the middle section ca 900 mm. So in 1/350 scale 1,7 & 2,6 mm. This was too much for my skills, so I used roughly the double 3 & 5 mm. I think that it does not look too bad.

[quote="Dan K"]Good question. I'm still looking. I've always thought that just the lantern itself was red or green. Different sources show red, green, or black (like Tamiya) colored backboards.

Postwar photos don't show that area to be different then the superstructure gray.[/quote]

Hi Dan,
I agree with you: it is the lantern that has the colour. That is the only way that the nav lights fulfill the ancient old rules and show the light in correct angles. So the Yukikaze photo with my notes should be right. The backboard colour is bit of a question mark, but I have seen in many ships that it is matt black in order to avoid unwanted reflections.
Thanks again for your help! :thumbs_up_1:

Good question. I'm still looking. I've always thought that just the lantern itself was red or green. Different sources show red, green, or black (like Tamiya) colored backboards.

Postwar photos don't show that area to be different then the superstructure gray.

Does anyone have a clear view on the navigation lights for the IJN Kagero-class destroyers? Old black&white photos do not tell much and I noticed that various modellers have used different solutions. I doubt that Tamiya instructions are correct :anyone:

PM me with your email address for a full size version of this.

Hi all,
Has anyone seen a picture (structural drawing) of the frame spacing & bulkhead positions for Kagero-class destroyers? I am currently building 1/350 Tamiya model and wanted to replicate the frames showing through the hull plating (see photo).
Thanks! :thumbs_up_1: