The Ship Model Forum

an evergreen subject..... so an appropriate time to bump--especially the first page.

In recent times--with the advances in etching--

In 1/350 have been using 0.1 mm STAINLESS Steel railing ( that has been made for me)
that is half thickness relief etched to make it thinner ( finer! ) still
less expansion and contraction and less damage prone than equivalent brass

Happy modelmakaing!

JB

I have not had a very similar experience to what I am reading in this thread.

I have had no problems with attaching railings, for instance (with either PVA or CA).

I use a longer section of railing (that fits the entire length of the deck to be railed), and then tape it in place along two to four points.

Then I use a precision CA applicator (either a tool I have made out of an old staple, or an old fountain-pen nib, or an old hypodermic needle) to apply CA to a few spots along the length of the railing.

Then remove the tape, and glue the remaining sections.

Other things I have built (cranes, and spotlight towers) have also gone together rather easily (using a similar method).

All of these pieces have one or two things in common:

• Straight edges that abut evenly.
• they have parts that guide their placement.

It is splinter-shielding in the variety of shapes for which I am having problems.

Getting it bent into shape seems to be an issue, and then getting it to freaking STAY where I need it glued is traumatic as hell.

I have only fitting a few pieces, so far (on my USS San Francisco). And, while the decking on which they sit typically has at least one edge that the Splinter-shielding sits upon, the Splinter-shielding usually has internal areas that have no such guides. You have to eyeball it.

This can be incredibly frustrating for the .008" PE frets that most manufacturers have used (and, having used one that was on .01", that extra two-thousandths of an inch makes a freaking [b]LOT[/b] of difference in being able to keep from pinching, crimping, or otherwise fouling the PE parts).

I suppose, like most things, Practice makes Perfect...... So I will forge ahead, stumbling as I go....

MB

I've just been reading through much of this thread. In my experience, changing from CA to PVA has totally transformed the more delicate and fiddly elements of ship modelling. This is mainly the case with all photo-etch, particularly the railings on the deck edge, and also for all fine rigging/aerial lines, whip aerials, fixing figures, etc.

I used to struggle using CA, it is so awkward to use as it sets too quickly, doesn't grab at all and often doesn't bond when set, and the glue in the tube/pot goes off easily, whereas PVA is so easy to use, it will tack a light part on and quickly grab with some strength, is very easy to apply and is paintable (thinned with water or neat) to complete and fill joined parts, and shrinks down cear when set, and is actually very strong when set.

I am building my 1st ship, which implies there may be another. When I started it not that long ago that sentence would have read, "Shhh, don't tell anyone I'm building a ship. It won't happen again."

David's description of the railing installation process, and all the advice from the others, has taken a mystery, and fear, of how the get these strips of micro thin railing attached. I am actually looking forward to that step now.

I was fortunate enough this was just on page 3 but I agree that this should be a "sticky".

I am glad that the thread looks potentially helpful to you

Your model looks pretty sharp-even without PE...!!



You can get PVA glue in Austarlia -( I use the woodworking version --)


here is a mail order link fro PVA glues in Australia



http://www.myshopping.com.au/PT--172_Pva_Glue__fs_s70865_e__


and some more useful links

http://www.selleys.com.au/adhesives/household-adhesive/specialist-adhesive/aquadhere-interior/


http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/technical-data-sheets/pva-glues

Hope to help


Jim Baumann :wave_1:

Magic thread! :woo_hoo: Very informative!

I've never used PE before on anything ( I model aircraft, ships, armor and whatever takes my fancy after that, I've been modelling since 1967 or so, I'm now almost 51), and I must admit I've been baulking at starting any new projects or repairing and updating long damaged models that would benefit from the added detail PE can give as I just couldn't work out the best way of attaching/finishing the PE I had without unsightly blobs and heavy paint.

I must admit that PE is very expensive on a very limited modelling budget and that when a purchase is made your forced to make the most of your purchase, so NO mistakes can be made (nor any practice runs), this really puts the pressure on to produce great results first time and puts the brakes on any project when you don't have the skills or info to carry on with your build. Mostly I resort to scratch building details as best I can but I've always avoided railings as I couldn't guarantee consistent, believable results.

I've not posted any of my model ships before here on the forum as none of them have this sort of detailing and fall far short of the standards set by the members here.

Here in Oz we don't have the PVA glues you talk of, so I'm still trying to work out the correct way to attach details in general without unsightly 'blobs' of glue.

This is an example of my modelling so far without the use of PE, Skywave 1/700 USS Fletcher DD992 built 30Aug1993, hopefully I'm not going off topic with my pic.

[url=http://s246.photobucket.com/user/FAAMAN/media/Model%20Gallery/USS%20Fletcher%20DD992%201-700scale%20Skywave%20PitRoad/26DD992sml_zps62246450.jpg.html][img]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/FAAMAN/Model%20Gallery/USS%20Fletcher%20DD992%201-700scale%20Skywave%20PitRoad/26DD992sml_zps62246450.jpg[/img][/url]

Thankyou all for this informative post.

One caution on an otherwise brilliant product, Gator glue...it does not like cold temps. Product exposed to freezing temps, either in transit to your local shop or through the mail to your home, will render the product useless. Signs of spoilage are lumps and a slight foul odor. This may be true of all PVA glues, I'm not certain.

Yah i'm going to have to bookmark this thread.

To keep the topic going:

Jim, David, thank you for your instructions. I am a complete newbie. Can you please clarify: when you use PVA, you are gluing primed or painted railings to primed or painted parts, not bare metal to bare plastic, right? I just tried gluing primed railing to bare plastic: it did not hold at all. Could be a lousy glue, though.

Thank you!

Alex

Thanks guys!

I'm new to tiny PE parts and since I'll soon start building my 1/350 Scharnhorst, you saved me from disaster.

:thumbs_up_1:

annual bump up the list-

-still a very pertinent post !

JB

In have received d a set of Atlantic Models 1/350 individual stanchions--they are muuuuuuch finer than the Tamiya

in stainless steel

they have indents rather than holes--so no threading needed--the paint wil make the stanchion ball

can use sprue or mono-filament

will shortly do an illustrated review...


JB

While I don't have any real problem with applying PE railings, I find that they tend to be very fragile and I can't always protect them from handling mishaps. So, for at least those edge of hull railings, I've gone to madness in drilling steel wire stanchions. However, to insure a good straight line, I fix only the first and last post in a section, attach fine monofiliment line to them, and then attach the rest of the stanchions to the line, the base ends floating in drilled holes. Only after the section is complete and everything lines up do I then glue down the whole run. Looks very good and the mono line is forgiving of bumps and can even be re-tensioned with a little heat. The steel wire is fine guitar strings.
The new Tamiya Yamato has individual stanchions and fine copper wire for aftermarket, and while I'd use mono line instead, the stanchions are not bad looking. However, instead of trying to thread a zillion photo-etch bits onto some line, I use the Tamiya posts for the first and last to define the correct height, then do the steel wire float trick.

[quote="JIM BAUMANN"]>>>> "PVA" are you talking about Elmer's while glue or equivalent? <<<

yes-- I personally use Evostick Rapide woodworking glue( its a refined PVA)

It sets very quickly and has phenomenal 'grab' on small parts using minuscule amounts

:big_grin:

JIM B :wave_1:[/quote]

Just started using Evostick this week instead of super glue, what a difference, can't see me ever going back to super glue...

John

My turn to bump. Thanks guys! I have been arguing with railings for three days now (as well as a electrical cable on the outside of a bridge). I think this will help me a lot!

:thumbs_up_1: I cannot thank you guys enough for the information you have posted here, after many years of OOb modelling i am finally trying to upgrade my ships, I got a 1/700 IJN Maya from Skywave and the Pit Road etch to go with it, I have also got GMM IJN cruiser/destroyer set and am going to give it a go. With the couple of bits i have practiced on (WEM's 1/600 destroyer set) i have had mixed results. I managed to fold 1 crane and it looked great, but on the second and third attempt the parts separated on the fold lines, any ideas on what i'm doing wrong. I am using a small Hold n Fold and a scalpel blade and tweezers.

Mick

I know that this has been around ,but due to the recent posts I will chime in .The first exposure to P.E. for me was TRUMPETER,S -U.S.S. NORTH CAROLINA . I bought two of the EDUARD sets , one after I messed up on the first on very crucial parts (the radars and director radars .) Now ,through it all I went through many methods including white glue . The thing is I even went the super glue route .Now I,ve simplified it by using something else . I now use a thickened version of the very same paint I use on the model . It seems to work okay so far . By doing this I have found that there is a certain amount of workability to adjust and straighten rails ,just in case they aren,t just right .I still use medium thick super glue as it sets better and with the zip kicker makes it work faster and more secure on mast parts . There is to many methods that work for many modelers so I guess it,s just what works for the specific builder . commodore4

I use Gator Glue a lot and it's very good indeed. It's water soluable and cleans with warm water. It sets quite quickly. It is perfect for a lot of PE work, particularly if you need to fiddle the piece around a little because it doesn't set immediately and the residue is easily removed. And makes a pretty good filler if a seam is small enough. (I prefer Aves Apoxie Sculpt for anything major - extremely effective but much more forgiving than putty. Like an improved Miliput as I understand it.) I'm not sure if it has the "tack" for rails. If you could get the rails set, however, Gator would be very good at keeping them there. Clear off the residue which is easily seen when wet. When it dries it's quite clear and very strong.

Eric

Another bump... That said, I was fascinated by Jim's advice about cutting railings into lengths. In the past 've nearly gone nuts trying to wobble long pieces of railing into position and fixing it with CA - which I loathe. I've just started rigging and railing my HMS Hood after a lo-o-ong hiatus....A hectare of Portuguese scrub needs a lot of work! - and have been using Micro Krystal Klear,which in tiny undiluted amounts is good for rigging and initial railing attachments. Having no black sprue at all, I've been using some Ceramic Wire I have and black fly-tying silk, where possible. Lodsa fun.
F

shameless bump

and a quick question...Jim, have you tried Gator Glue? I think its PVA also, but not sure. Its what I have been using and I wonder what you think of it for pe. And thx for the steer to this thread, very helpful!