The Ship Model Forum

Very nice :thumbs_up_1:

The weathering of the hull is really impressive!

My Krassin mdel is now completed!

Thanks you to everyone who assisted!

there will be a full feature in the gallery soon

Jim Baumann :wave_1:

[img]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=47074&mode=view[/img]

[img]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=47077&mode=view[/img]

[img]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=47073&mode=view[/img]

My model of Krassin is nearly finished now-after endless hours f agonising er the muntia....

just need to rig her .....

the build thread consists of 3 pages so far

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=94035



[img]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=46729&mode=view[/img]

Further to the most helpful discussion ref the breakwater...

[img]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=45380&mode=view[/img]

among other progress on the model the fwd windlass has now been completed and installed

[img]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=45384&mode=view[/img]



as well as the aft windlass/ winch

[img]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=45437&mode=view[/img]

right--the plans--that aopear to have been errnoeus in ther area of funnel cowl, breakwater among just a few

seem to be endeavouring to lead me down garden path....

The plan shows a veritable forest of vents midships.

[attachment=0]draw_krassin1.jpg[/attachment]



all the models that i have seen to date --that have been built following 'the plan'- funnel skirt et al-- have this forest of vents.

Yet I cannot see in any photo--as yet-- a clear indication that the smaller vents are present on the real ship,

either in arctic use or alongside...

[attachment=3]krasin no vent.jpg[/attachment]

the small vent ahead of the aft funnel seems present in all images- but not on the plan..(??!!)
[attachment=2]krasin 1917.jpg[/attachment]

Consulting [b][i]Kronma [/i][/b]and[i][b] Cereberus jf [/b][/i] ,and comparing with photos of Yermack suggest that the vents were removable

Some photos do show the odd deck-side vent installed--but never all at the same time that are indicated on the plans for the model ...

I will install some short stumps with lids--as per images of Yermack( courtesy of Kronma)

[attachment=1]YERMAK demountable vents 01.jpg[/attachment]

The model is making progress-albeit slowly!

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=94035

[quote="maxim"]I cannot see the cowl skirt on your photos. The lower part of vents appears to be black. This appears to be the most "logic" colour.

Any idea about the colours of the Junkers JuG-1? Green or Orange?[/quote]

Last time I read book about this in my childhood and I think Junkers has been red?
Am I right, can anybody correct me?

Well... it had to happen!

not satisfied with the compromises of the starting point kit hull ...--that I was simply compounding with assumptions and partly wishful thinking....

along with the not-so-perfect-casting--based on the not-so-perfect-plans....

I have now materially retrogressed significantly- back to way beyond what was in the kit box when I opened it...! :big_grin:

-but feel rather more satisfied with a new more positive direction to embark upon the build....--guided by you gentlemen! :thumbs_up_1:


After removal of paint, strakes, all deckhouses, paring the upper surface down by 1mm to accomodate the thickness of the new decklayer, and extensive re-shaping of the hull midships; to create the greater accentuated tumblehome that has become very apparent and easier tu judge after viewing the movie clips as well as from study of some of the much better quality photos I have received...

I now have virtually clean slate to work from.... :thumbs_up_1:
[attachment=2]Lumix 1299.jpg[/attachment]

Thanks :thumbs_up_1:

[quote="DariusP"]Were breakwater sides cut out to allow 305mm guns better arcs of fire or were they always of this shape?[/quote]
These guns were established by Armstrong when the icebreaker built.
The guns have removed later, but the breakwater`s form has remained.
I believe, this form always was the same, irrespective of the guns.

Kronma, second photo from the top (with BIG gun :) ) Do you know if breakwater sides were cut out to allow 305mm guns better arcs of fire or were they always of this shape?

The crew has a rest in the ship`s library. 1935.
It`s visible from a composition, that five persons around a table... have conversation!
:big_grin:

[url=http://radikal.ru/F/s018.radikal.ru/i504/1201/33/91340334b940.jpg.html][img]http://s018.radikal.ru/i504/1201/33/91340334b940t.jpg[/img][/url]

Forgive for an off-top.

Via the Polar Ru forum I came across this Russian language documentary about Krasin

there are a few useful scenes therein-tantalising glipmses-most inspirational - especially showing the amount of ice on the hull sides and on deck

a nice scene of the Junkers being unloaded as well


this is the link--its quite a big file 362 mb- but worth it to obsessive Krassin studiers.... :big_grin: :thumbs_up_1:


http://www.polarpost.ru/video/Ledokol_Krasin.avi

Its a bit tricky to grab screen shots...

cheers

JB :wave_1:

[quote="DariusP"]Modelist Konstructor drawings from 1978? :)[/quote]
Yes! :thumbs_up_1: :big_grin:

[quote="JIM BAUMANN"]
Thank you[/quote]
You are welcome! :smallsmile:
It is the answer to your question about the KRASIN`s breakwater.

[url=http://radikal.ru/F/s018.radikal.ru/i518/1201/04/400b5748ec9d.jpg.html][img]http://s018.radikal.ru/i518/1201/04/400b5748ec9dt.jpg[/img][/url]

Once, the BIG guns have been established in these points of the deck (along the breakwater edges). :smallsmile:

And another photos:
[url=http://radikal.ru/F/i007.radikal.ru/1201/e7/19fc6d5bad3d.jpg.html][img]http://i007.radikal.ru/1201/e7/19fc6d5bad3dt.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://radikal.ru/F/s018.radikal.ru/i510/1201/14/41b4a9c1d5ce.jpg.html][img]http://s018.radikal.ru/i510/1201/14/41b4a9c1d5cet.jpg[/img][/url]

[quote="Kronma 77"]Probably - from the wrong old shipmodel-drawing. :smallsmile:[/quote]

That what I was thinking too Kronma. Modelist Konstructor drawings from 1978? :)

Thank you for your kind guidance.... :thumbs_up_1:

I think I will now start taking things off the model again! :big_grin: and add a new deck....

Thankyou also for the excellent images of Yermack- will be useful for my impending dioarama project of Yermack-in-ice-with-Apraxin... in 1/700


As the Kombrig kit depicts the ship before the bow extension--usefully the Apraxin event occurred before then also!! :thumbs_up_1:


Thank you

Jim Baumann

[quote="JIM BAUMANN"]
Some plans indicate that the area ahead of the bridge-to-the breakwater was all timber--other plans ( and some models' suggest that area may have had lino covering....[/quote]
It is a fragment of YERMAK`s deck area near the bridge - you can see only a wooden covering.

[url=http://radikal.ru/F/s018.radikal.ru/i501/1201/03/65932e60d97e.jpg.html][img]http://s018.radikal.ru/i501/1201/03/65932e60d97et.jpg[/img][/url]

I don't know, whence the legend about this linoleum was born.
Probably - from the wrong old shipmodel-drawing. :smallsmile:

[quote="JIM BAUMANN"]
2) My instinct tells me they may be the same colour as the superstructure--based on the the levels of the colour band aligning exactly with the upper levels of the of the superstructure...[/quote]
I believe, that your instinct isn't mistaken. :smallsmile:
I hope, it will be interesting and useful to you to look at these photos of the previous icebreaker, which has been build by Armstrong - YERMAK.

[url=http://radikal.ru/F/s018.radikal.ru/i526/1201/c6/7b09b3c3ec32.jpg.html][img]http://s018.radikal.ru/i526/1201/c6/7b09b3c3ec32t.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://radikal.ru/F/s018.radikal.ru/i516/1201/07/5d3a4154a054.jpg.html][img]http://s018.radikal.ru/i516/1201/07/5d3a4154a054t.jpg[/img][/url]

Hate to add to your soft shoe shuffle Jim but I am suspicious about deck areas covered with lino... What sources have you got for this? Remember Yermak thread? Haven't somebody mentioned there that lino or metal on decks aren't right materials for cold weather sailing? It made sense to me than and it does now.
There is this shot of Krasin's crew in 1928: http://www.krassin.ru/expedition_1928/spisok/ It looks to me like this photo was cropped. If you could find un-cropped version AND got lucky maybe at least one of your questions would be answered? :eyebrows:

edit- added link to a photo of Krasin's crew.

I am taking a step back for every two forward....

Although it is perfectly reasonable to surmise that the deckhouse colours were the same colour as the sides...
-seeds of doubt have been cast by some of my Krasin e-correspondents , cereberus_jf for one :thumbs_up_1: ...
by study of a number of other vessels of the Russian Navy--albeit somewhat earlier naval vessels-that often the deckhouse roofs WERE a different colour...

The build of my models is in danger of a stall...--for lack of info on a key component--the colour of the deck house roofs and it being verifiable...!!

.......the only on-deck photos I have ..are either cluttered up with aircraft--or are too low res to read anythiong from.

This postcard below -- in a higher resolution WOULD be useful--I have written-via google translators... to the uploaders on a variety of Russian forums for a higher res version

we can only hope...!!

[attachment=7]ariel pt aft zoom in.jpg[/attachment]



meanwhile....


Some plans indicate that the area ahead of the bridge-to-the breakwater was all timber--other plans ( and some models' suggest that area may have had lino covering....

but.......

neither the plans or indeed all the models agree--

either on deckhouse colours- not seen a single photo ( yet!!) of the real ship with white deckhouses...[attachment=6]draw_krassin1.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=5]model type A_whiteand_grey.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=4]ModeltypeB_allwhite.jpg[/attachment]


[attachment=3]modeltypeC.jpg[/attachment]

where in fairness.. :thumbs_up_1: the all-grey wartime model has funnels that agree with my findings--ie no cowl-skirt!!



arghhh!



Then again--ALL the plans show a tapering-in-height breakwater that cannot be verified in any photo--

and NONE of the above models appears to depict this correctly ....

The breakwater, according to all the images I have downloaded ..., being virtually constant in height to the deck-edge--and only after a sharp bend and following the deck-edge aft... does it reduce in height ....

I have downloaded--all 362 mb ! - of a documentary film( 1928 ) made of the Krasin Nubile rescue in 1928....

I shall now study this in an endeavour to be able to freeze a frame that will help me out of this turmoil and torture!!


As a sign of life--to prove that this is not merely idle speculation

encs some images of progress so far ( all of one month!!!!!!!!!!! :Mad_6: :doh_1: )

The white styrene at hull base is to raise the hull when it is in the ice....

I agree with maxim on both points.