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To HMS Victory and beyond

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[quote="dafi"]Thank you Rob, trying not to disappoint you :-) And now to something completely different - the strops ... First threading test ... [img]http://mediaharmonists.de/bilder/800_victory-tackle_8727.jpg[/img] ... first had to squeeze the tip of my threading help to a smaller diameter, then pulled gently with brutal force this thickish 0,3 line through ... [img]http://mediaharmonists.de/bilder/800_victory-tackle_8728.jpg[/img] ... and test step N° 1 completed :-) More difficult is the stropping as I remember from the tiller, so taking the line out again for security reasons as some glueing will be required ... [img]http://mediaharmonists.de/bilder/800_victory-tackle_8729.jpg[/img] ... fix the stropping line with one drop of CA in the groove on one side, carry once around the block, fix the extra strop for the hook, prepare the loop of thin line for securing the ensemble, fix it with Uhu Plast, - good fix but can be reopened if necessary - position the knots and ends properly, fix for good with CA, and once more I do a good cut :-) And then with good hope and high expectations back to the scene of crime ... [img]http://mediaharmonists.de/bilder/800_victory-tackle_8732.jpg[/img] ... and not tooo bad - and there are really two separate holes in the 1,5 mm block :-) [img]http://mediaharmonists.de/bilder/800_victory-tackle_8737.jpg[/img] Okokok, the back hook still is too long, the line a packet string and the splices worth 24 with the cat´o´24-tails ... ... but the direction is right :-) Disclaimer 1: This was a test, I wont do thaaaaaat for the lower deck guns ;-) Disclaimer 2: I took a barrel with a sinking mark to remind you of the provenience of this model ... Reminder to myself: Check out, someone mentioned something that there should be sheaves ... Lieber Gruß, Daniel[/quote]

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Topic review - To HMS Victory and beyond

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dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Thank you Martin and SG1.

Of course the crew will become a bit more alive still. This version was just to give a fast try to see if the ergonomics of the oars do work.

XXXDAn

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2025 2:17 am

SG1

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

MartinJQuinn wrote:

Mind blowing work. Those boats are works of art unto themselves

I second that! ..and the guns.. :cool_2:

dafi have you planned any "differentiating surgery" on the rowing crews? mostly on the heads postures maybe, not much can be done on the arms i reckon

great progress, keep this up!

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2025 2:40 am

MartinJQuinn

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Mind blowing work. Those boats are works of art unto themselves

Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2025 5:38 pm

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

It depends very much upon the resin used. This standard resin is quite stable and did the job surprisingly well, better than the plastic from the kit. As a trial it was good for the experience, as with a stay it could really be used. Espesially if compered the ratio of the little diameter of 1,47 mm in relation th the extreme length of 73 mm at the foremast.

XXXDAn

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2025 3:04 am

wefalck

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Examplary research and execution on the barrels and the ship's boats :thumbs_up_1:

As I am pondering, whether to use steel, brass or acrylic glass for the masts on my current project, the same question re. the 3D-printed masts came to my mind. However, I would be more concerned about the brittleness than the flexibility in this case.

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2025 3:55 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Hello Marijn,

of course you are comletely right. I usually also do exchange the spars to wood or to brass. This one was a test, as the printed masts are much more rigid than I thought, the foremast 1.4 mm and the main 1.6 mm in diameter.

Had i not taken the stay out it would even have worked :-)

But still enough things to try out, one never stops ...

By the way, here is a test I did some years ago with the jibboom of my Victory. Once plastic oob and once wooden replacement, both with the same weigth.

XXXDAn

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2025 5:25 am

marijn van gils

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Simply beautiful! :thumbs_up_1:

There is certainly no denying the benefits of 3D-designing and printing. But maybe the flexibility of the resin makes it not very suited for (rigged) masts and spars, and another more rigid material like wood or metal wood be better? I would be interested what your thoughts on this!

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2025 2:56 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Time to continue with the big launch.

The masts have been redesigned, with details taken from Steel.

I keep noticing that thin printed parts such as oars and masts warp after painting. See the upper half of the picture.

After a quick dip in hot water, they are straight again, see bottom half :-)

I simplified the rigging of the launch and combined various sources. As with the Hermione boats, the eye bolts were no longer attached to the top of the gunwale but underneath on the frames. It looks much clearer. Here is the first dummy rig with the newly positioned attachment points.

Once rigged, it looks like this. I actually wanted to work without stays, but due to the stubborn rigging, this is hardly possible without curvature. The mainstay should then of course lead to the foot of the foremast.

Here are the attachment points in detail. The running end is wrapped around a cleat, but not yet stowed.

And the sails are also waiting to be processed :-)

XXXDAn

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2025 6:20 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

You never stop learning, you never stop learning.

For 10 years now, I've been showing these gunlocks sitting centrally above the tube's ignition pan, when someone else points out that this isn't the case, that they're off-centre. So I took another close look at the few pictures on the internet, and sure enough.

So, the gunlock has been moved to the correct position, and I hope it's now a little closer to the original :-)

Flanged to the starboard side of the ignition pan of the barrel, the retaining bolt(s) pass horizontally through it, so the barrel itself does not need to be weakened. The pan of the lock protrudes above the pan of the barrel.

There were also corresponding changes to the lead cover, with the cap moving slightly off-centre.

Accordingly, there are again three variants of the representation, with cover, flintlock and open ignition pan.

The flintlock shows that the printer is at its limit, and when the metallic paint is added, it looks a bit washed out in close-up. Here is the lock with just primer, which adheres better.

And here is the dimensions-based visualisation.

Have fun

XXXDAn

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2025 7:04 am

Dan K

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Agreed. But it raises the question of how you are planning to display the ship and guns - ready for battle or just day-to day?

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2025 11:02 am

marijn van gils

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Beautiful work Daniel!
It was also really interesting to follow the whole boat-saga! :thumbs_up_1:

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2025 3:13 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Okay, let's talk about something we guys know more about: guns.

Or at least we think we do.

In the past, model guns were mostly rotational pieces, and only larger-scale models were retrofitted with details such as ignition pans and coats of arms. These were custom-made or complex castings. With the printing the excuse of the effort involved no longer applies. That's why I finally finished the new guns for my Victory.

And here starts a new point of discussion about how to present the guns. Not saying that the classical we usually show is wrong, but as an opener for mind and possibilities.

The version we usually show is with an exposed touch hole and without a tompion is simply how we know these things from museums and recovered from wrecks.

But in real seafaring life this appearance was probably rather rare, it was probably mostly different:
There are enough orders, records and wreck finds that describe the guns as most of the times ‘loaded’ during the period of 1800 and before. This also means that the powder charge stored inside the barrel had to be protected from water and moisture. For this purpose, tompions, simple wooden turned parts, were used as plugs at the front. They can be seen in many paintings, mostly white.

The sensitive touch hole also had to be protected. Lead covers were used for this purpose, which protected the touch hole of dirt and, if the gun was equipped with one, the gunlock, and above all protected the hole against fire and sparks.

When the gun was made ready for battle, the tompion was removed as late as possible and the cover of the touch hole was removed also only shortly before the shot was to be fired.

Thus, in real life, there were mainly the following 2 conditions:
- Stowed, lashed down, run out with cover over the touch hole or gunlock and with tompion
- Shortly before firing, without cover over the touch hole or gunlock and without tompion

Here we have the triad of touch hole, gunlock and cover in comparison:

And here are the five gun sizes required for the Victory:
32-pounder medium lower battery deck, 24-pounder medium middle battery deck, 12-pounder long upper battery deck, 12-pounder medium aft, 12-pounder short quarterdeck.

The classic ‘pure’ representation with open touch hole

With gun lock. It is worth considering that the tompion could also be set if the enemy is not yet within firing range.

And with cover and tompion.

I adapted the colour of the lead covers to the artefacts from Thorsminde. The same applies to the fastening holes. This also results in the rear fastening via the ring, as all other types of fastening would slip off.
The colours of the tompions – natural wood, white, red – are taken from the artefacts and paintings and should, of course, be uniform on the model. The wood-coloured ones were probably the most common, as the tompions were carried as prefabricated spindles in sets of about a dozen and simply sawed off as needed. I doubt that they were painted every time.

Side discussion:
Also this involves in my humble opinion the presentation of the tackles. If stowed it is clear that those have to be properly set to hold the gun, plenty of drawings show this. If ran out but gun secured (Touch hole and muzzle protected) those tackles should be secured too but probably not laying on deck. If ran out for "clear for action“ (touchhole and possibly muzzle protected) the tackles should be open, but secured on the carriage, the free ends in a way that it wont become knotted. And just straight before the shot: no muzzle, gunlock or vent hole open and the tackles be held by the crew.

Is there any place for the nice spirals we like to show, especially with an tackle not made fast? Try this in real life and the guns will run amok at the first wave ...

HTo round the theme up, here are two scale pictures of the barrels above :-)

[img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler42/Victory-Guns-250810_3524.jpg[/img

Enjoy :-)

XXXDAn

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 5:57 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

And we continued with the lugger-rigged version of the large launch.

First came the masts. I took the measurements from W. E. May's summary, but they also correspond fairly closely to the French measurements. The strength of the lugger rig is its simplicity. Insert the pre-rigged mast, hook in the pairs of backstays on both sides with the standing end, hook the tackles in the middle, and belay the free end. The halyard of the sail is already sheared through in the masthead, so the sail is immediately hoisted, the tack, sheet and brail are secured, and off you go.

In my scrap box, I charmingly found a sample from my sandwich sail tests from 2017 – yes, I actually keep such things for that long – and the sizes I need fit quite well, even avoiding the messy areas. I developed the material back then to combine the advantages of fabric as an elastic material and paper for a more true-to-scale surface. Thin strips of restoration repair paper are ironed onto both sides of a layer of silk to create a sandwich that resembles closely the visual properties of the sails. It is also unbeatable for folding and stowing. However, at the time, I did not yet have a model that was ready for me to use it on ...

I took the angles from Steel's drawings, but I had to mark the radius at the bottom – one of the differences to French sails – with a pen and thread, as the radius is larger than my templates.

I shortened the furled sails by approx. 25%, i.e. below the lower reefing band, which I had also omitted for this purpose.

The surrounding leech was glued on and the eyes for the brails were added.

If necessary, I'll even clamp a sail in a vice ;-)

And then it was time to fold and fiddle around.

And then it was adjusted to fit the storage space.

Together with the masts in place looks quite cheerful and full. Two barrels have also found their way there. Who can find them?

It's great to finally be able to use the sails developed eight years ago in a model myself. Some modeling friends have already impressively demonstrated their potential. Thank them for that.

And I'm already testing out the next crazy ideas for my boat collection...

XXXDAn

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2025 3:23 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Next the barrels were continued. The number of hoops is interesting here. As an average layman, one would assume 4. However, Nelson's brandy leaguer shows a completely different number, and the double hoops are particularly interesting. I found several references to the fact that larger barrels have a double hoop at the top. So once again, nothing with once programming 1 barrel and scaling it to all sizes ;-)

Each barrel format is unique, and I have attempted to develop a reasonably plausible number of hoops. After all, a 675-litre Leaguer weighs over 0.8 modern tonnes, so there is a considerable amount of self-weight to bear, especially during transport when dynamic forces are added.

The result was a nice family picture:

The 1.55-metre-high, 104-cm-diameter tun is the largest in the series, but I have not yet come across it in a maritime context, probably because it is too unwieldy. The smallest here is the firkin, with a capacity of 9 gallons, a height of 56 cm and a diameter of 43 cm. The powder keg on the Invincible has almost identical dimensions and, in my opinion, is a firkin with special hoops.

The picture clearly shows that the size range of the different sizes could be reasonably accurate. Using this overview picture, I was able to compare the shapes of the different sizes.

And here are the next samples of the barrels. The differentiation between the various number of hoops results in a pleasant visual impression for eye of the beholder ;-)

The selected sizes are, in descending order, leaguer, puncheon and hogshead, as these are always mentioned when stowing the hold, plus the kilderkin as it is a basic measure and the smaller firkin for boats and as the probable size of powder barrels.

The stacking in the boats is based on historical data, so special launches for first and second rates could hold 14 to 16 leaguers, which is a mere 8 to 10 modern tonnes in weight. I dare to doubt how much freeboard was left, but perhaps there wasn't as much heavy stuff in there as liquids ...

XXXDAn

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 5:04 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

And another little tip on the technical side:

And I always propagate not to cold bend resin parts. After painting, the oars got quite a bend in the shaft. That's why I briefly dipped the parts in hot water.

You could really see how the parts straightened out in the water within 2-3 seconds by themselves. Like memory metals, really strong :-)

The bent parts at the top and the hot-bathed and straightened parts at the bottom. The fact that the far left side still has a bend is not a mistake, but the curved rudder blades of the small and medium-sized boats.

XXXDAn

And I still have 2 boat shells.

... what do I do now, what do I do now ...

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2025 6:54 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Thank you SG and Dan! Very appreciated.

In the meantime, a whole small flotilla has emerged from my 32-foot launch :-)

The 7-oared pinnace is in a race with the fully loaded 14-oared launch, which has to pull the fully loaded launch with the water barrels. Next to it is another boat with fully stowed equipment and one where the launch is helping to weigh anchor. And of course a setting with set sails. Always the same hull, but with different contents and task each time. More on the individual deployment options soon. It remains exciting.

Here is the comparison one more time ...

... of the single-banked pinnace with the rowers always sitting on the opposite side ...

... and the double-banked 32-foot launch.

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2025 6:52 am

Dan K

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Ditto that. Beautiful.

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2025 7:53 am

SG1

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Great outcome dafi! Wooden effect is perfectly rendered :cool_2:

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2025 6:03 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

At the same time, work continued on the boats, especially on the 32-foot launch.

The nice thing about printing is that you can simply repeat, so suddenly there were 4 hulls in front of me. What am I supposed to do with them again?

The little devilish voice inside me then came immediately: Build it! Build it!

Well, that's the way it happened.

Here are the 4 steps of the interior: Priming black to prevent flashes, dark brown for the inner body, thin black ink for depth and usage, and white drybrush to bring out the textures again.

On the other hand, I painted the interior parts with a lighter shade of brown, inked and brushed them to emphasise them a little. It could also have been interpreted as different wood.

But when I looked at it ...

... and compared it with the first launch at the front in a completely lighter colour ...

... it looked too much like a toy to me, and the dafi had to do what it does best - tear it down! - and everything flew out again ...

... ... and the inside of the boats has been coloured lighter. Fits much better now :-)

Here is a picture showing how the barrels fit - that's easily over 7 tonnes of weight -, in the middle the rowing version, and the third one still without thwarts , where you can see the height of the stretchers above the inner floor. Then you can also see that the rowers' feet would otherwise have been hanging in the air and intensive pulling would not have been so successful.

So that I don't always get the thwarts mixed up, I have given them markings on the underside. The stretchers too, by the way.

XXXDAn

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2025 9:55 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

And once again I've made a mistake. This drawing from 1815 shows the loading of the large launch with barrels of drinking water.

And so, of course, I had to know how big the barrels were in order to put them in my launch. These large barrels are so-called Leaguers with the equivalent of 480 liters. So with wood, they weigh over half a ton. And then 14 of them in the boat, making well over 7 tons.

The research was somewhat difficult, as the volumes are often mentioned, but not the exact dimensions. In the meantime, I have researched the sizes of the whole family more or less reliably, so that I was able to start on the models.

Here are the 3 sizes for the model: Leaguer 480 liters, Puncheon 318 liters, Hogshead 200 liters and a small powder keg. Each in three parts, as I don't want the supports to be visible as usual.

Family picture with avatar.

And after priming and inking came the challenge: blackening the hoops.

At the back right was with the brush. On a good day, I get a few hoops, but then it's all over. Okay, that wasn't a particularly good day anyway. So I tried the back left with a felt-tip pen, which was better, but still uneven and above all an unpleasant metallic-reddish sheen.

And in front a completely different approach, because I remembered that the prints are made of black resin. I quickly tried to see if sanding the hoops worked, and lo and behold ...

... it works like a charm!

The powder keg was given its copper hoops and light-colored withy rings and joined the others. No iron hoops on purpose, because they could cause sparks and that would be really stupid. The copper is also nicely embedded between the withy rings so that it doesn't stick out. There are wonderful artifacts showing this, recovered from the HMS Invincible, which sank in 1758.

And that brings us very close to what I wanted :-)

XXXDAn

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2025 11:51 am

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