The Ship Model Forum

Just found this thread. Lovely work. Hope we'll see more.

[quote="Ramaja"]sorry for the lack of updates: i made some rather embarassing attempts to cast decent shields for the secondary armaments of the Pola but everyone was aborted: to make a decent replica I need to use the Vacuum forming and create a slightly scaled down master. Free hand casting was not satisfying so I ordered today from China a little cheap Vaacuum Forming machine for dental works hoping it will get the job done. It will take about 20dayd to have it delivered, in the mean time I'll do some works on the main guns.
Cheers.[/quote]

Oups I was talking about vacuum forming machine

[quote="Ramaja"]I already have taken care of the lenght of the Pola most of the excess is on the bow, some is on the stern. Overall most of the extremities have been rescupted. The width of the ship at the center looks about right so I didn't bother.
BTW, I will double check tomorrow, but the model is about 52cm in lenght, which conform with the 182.8m given for the real ship. Not even near to the 5+cm you imply. if this would be the case this Pola would make a perfect base to convert it in a Bolzano (which indeed needs 4+cm enlenghtment in the centre of the base HB kit.
Can you please be more specific?[/quote]


You can make one for 1 Euro !!!

Hello. Bought the same kit to refresh skills. Could you please tell me if you have the picture or a blueprint of how the forward funnel is attached to the superstructure? I have some nice pics from the internet but there is none with a view from the top.

PS The kit is insane. As much as I would tolerate such inaccuracies in my teens as much I hate them now. If I read your thread before, I would go for Trumpeter's Zara :big_grin:

Hi Gianluigi,

Very good purchase, I'm sure they will go fine with your Pola. :thumbs_up_1:

I'm waiting some pieces from Giampiero and other sources for my Pola too.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

Finally something to work with!

Thanks Giampiero! :thumbs_up_1:

[quote="Ramaja"]Thanks Ricardo, at the moment the base of the side RF is just a shape to be refined but you are right and the whole thing seems to keep following the platform instead of keeping a round shape of a typical barbette.
What I was referring in the second post is the shape just under the forward Range Finder, the half cylinder in white which seems to me to be a little oversized. The problem is that I don't have a clue about how to correct it. Once I miss good plans.[/quote]

I think I understand you now, you're talking about the objects I pointed bellow. I had the same problem than you and my conclusion was: Is very difficult to represent it in the correct measures without good plans and at this uncorrect kit. As I said you before, to do this kit is not only a question to do parts with correct mesures but we need to conciliate parts too. And to conciliate this RF with the elements around as better I had can did, I had to sacrify in some ways it's correct size. May be I change something before finish it, but I'm sure it will never have the correct measurement or it will never have the near to correct "look together" the others parts around.

[img]http://i59.tinypic.com/33f49pv.jpg[/img]

When I did it I consider not only it's correct size but the conciliation with the distances from the bridge and from the 2nd gun turret too. I remember too I had to reduce in some millimeters the superstructure base too to put the elements at near the appearence of the distances I can see at pictures.

[img]http://i58.tinypic.com/i20tpl.jpg[/img]

Best Regards,

Ricardo

Thanks Ricardo, at the moment the base of the side RF is just a shape to be refined but you are right and the whole thing seems to keep following the platform instead of keeping a round shape of a typical barbette.
What I was referring in the second post is the shape just under the forward Range Finder, the half cylinder in white which seems to me to be a little oversized. The problem is that I don't have a clue about how to correct it. Once I miss good plans.

Hi Gianluigi,

My observations about your work are:

RF body forms looks fine to me, but I think the front object needs to have some refinishing. For example its front plate looks to be at 90º from the soil at your piece. But seems to me its a little bit slanted at real thing, parallel to the green line I inserted at picture below.

[img]http://i57.tinypic.com/729c0w.jpg[/img]

About your question, if you're talking about the contour I pointed bellow.

[img]http://i61.tinypic.com/30cx5oo.jpg[/img]

Looking at pictures, seems to me tower base at this place is the RF barbette body itself, and consequently has the same shape.

[img]http://i60.tinypic.com/11tya0j.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i59.tinypic.com/9t0mqh.jpg[/img]

But may be you don't need to change the entire base to fix it. Try to cut this area in square form and insert a platicard piece where you can carve the correct contour.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

I added this image of the front range finder mock up. I don't know what to think of it: it has about the same size of the Side upper RF barbette as it looks like in the photos, but the lower curve on the command tower seems a bit off. In some photos I have it looks about the same radius as the RF above, but this would mean a compete rework of the structure itself: comments?

Here is what I came out with so far:

The optic structure on the inclined plate is still missing and so are the black cylindrical cover and the hatchy thing on the top. The proportion with the top of the quadripod seems about right and so is the size of the Barbette (about 11mm).

[quote="Ramaja"]Ok, I was trying to correct the RF in 3D when the program crashed I lost the changes.
Anyway here is what I came off so far: given the size of the man on top of the RF, I'd rescale my drawing to about, 0.8 for a correct 1/350 ratio.
The upper parapet is just a wave cutter in case of foul weather. there is no room for human inside
The black stuff is a semi cylinder cover which can be moved to enclose the optical device inside.
The water protector has tree section, the forward and parallel one, as large as the device it protects and two folding back until they disappear inside the inclined metal plate. The Water protector has the same upper folded design as the metal parapet on the bridge platform.
The device inside the black cover is a vertical plate in black colour and has two round lenses: My guess is that it is about 1.2m wide
The object visible on top I'd guess is an hatch or there would be no way for the man in the picture to get up there.
Albeit the RF has to be rescaled to 0.8 the height of the Barbette should remain unchanged from the old drawing making it less squat. Whatever happens on the platform, to get the model right, has to be tweaked on the platform itself, adjusting it so that the round base of the Barbette perfectly adapt to the outer edge of the platform.
Tomorrow I'll try rescaling two RF I already built to see how they look[/quote]

Yes Gianluigi, I think you're correct in your observations. Do a mockup with these measures to see if it will look good with the other bridge parts.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

I did not understand if you realized the black canvas cover is there because there's an opening on the frontal plate, and the windshield is there to protect the lookouts that were under the canvas cover. The RF turret is opened there, to give llokouts a better view and situation awareness.

Ok, I was trying to correct the RF in 3D when the program crashed I lost the changes.
Anyway here is what I came off so far: given the size of the man on top of the RF, I'd rescale my drawing to about, 0.8 for a correct 1/350 ratio.
The upper parapet is just a wave cutter in case of foul weather. there is no room for human inside
The black stuff is a semi cylinder cover which can be moved to enclose the optical device inside.
The water protector has tree section, the forward and parallel one, as large as the device it protects and two folding back until they disappear inside the inclined metal plate. The Water protector has the same upper folded design as the metal parapet on the bridge platform.
The device inside the black cover is a vertical plate in black colour and has two round lenses: My guess is that it is about 1.2m wide
The object visible on top I'd guess is an hatch or there would be no way for the man in the picture to get up there.
Albeit the RF has to be rescaled to 0.8 the height of the Barbette should remain unchanged from the old drawing making it less squat. Whatever happens on the platform, to get the model right, has to be tweaked on the platform itself, adjusting it so that the round base of the Barbette perfectly adapt to the outer edge of the platform.
Tomorrow I'll try rescaling two RF I already built to see how they look

[quote="Ramaja"]Very good pics! I've never seen some of those, but now I can see there is something like a two lenses stereoscopic device under the black hood and it was not some kind of observation platform as I supposed. the hood may well be some kind of rotating cylinder covering the device when it was not in use, but I wonder why have them it painted black under the Mediterranean sea... :thinking:
.[/quote]

Yes, it's my opinion too. The only observation here is, may be it's not a black painting but some kind of black rubberized material to protect device against humidity and salt.

I sent you a PM about some news informations, please let me know what think about it.

In my sketch I used the same barbette from the original piece, with 9,0mm diameter and cuted with 6,0mm high. To me rangefind itself is about 5,5 mm high, 1,1cm long and 8,5 mm large.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

Very good pics! I've never seen some of those, but now I can see there is something like a two lenses stereoscopic device under the black hood and it was not some kind of observation platform as I supposed. the hood may well be some kind of rotating cylinder covering the device when it was not in use, but I wonder why have them it painted black under the Mediterranean sea... :thinking:
What also makes me wonder is the height of the Barbette base under the RF which seems to be quite high and slender, probably slightly higher then the device itself. With no parapet installed is really stands out! I wonder if I correctly calculated the height of the quadripod, because the top of the Range finder doesn't seems to outreach the top of the 4 legs where the top range finder base starts...
Now, if I try installing the range finders on the platform like I did on a pic above, they seems correct but I came to the conclusion that they were too small...
Looking at the scale drawing I have the height of the structure is correct, so may it be that these RF are smaller then I suspected?
On other, more recent pics anyway, the Barbettes looks pretty squat rated with their height, like if they were inscribed in a cube. I hope they did not changed the whole stuff during one of the re haul of the ship! :mad_2:
I need to do some experimental tweaking of the ones I already made trying to resize them a bit and see what happens before starting with new ones.
I used a smaller Barbette there (about 1.1cm instead of 1.2) and a bit higher then what I've drawn here so may be the problem is an over-scaling of the platform itself...
[img]http://i62.tinypic.com/24cbnlc.jpg[/img]
This one is amazing and very crisp! I'd like to get the "not scaled down" version if it's better and you can send it to me.
You can see the parapet is very similar to the one you find everywhere with a flat profile and two angles. you can also see the shape of the hood which now I suspect is metallic and not canvas. It has the exact size of the central section of the parapet meaning that probably the device itself has that wideness and the lower rail is just to help keeping it dry in case of rash weather.
Also, there is a man sitting beside the device on the other RF, meaning it has to be quite small and that the top object we see on some pics is probably a hatch to get there.

Let me check and I'll post something tomorrow.

Hi Gianluigi,

It's the better I can do with the poor pictures I have.

My conclusions are:

As I said above, this rangefinder changed throught the time, but some changes don't make sense to me.


[img]http://i61.tinypic.com/4vjv69.jpg[/img]

Observe this 2nd picture, range finder has the same configuration than Jane's picture I posted above. Without front object and with vertical bars at lateral. These bars appears in some pictures but in others none.It's a good view to calculate the frontal plate high measure without front object.

[img]http://i57.tinypic.com/2hydijr.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i59.tinypic.com/er9wlc.jpg[/img]

Probably they are hatches as you said.

[img]http://i60.tinypic.com/125nl34.jpg[/img]

Here we can see the cilindric object I pointed above.

[img]http://i61.tinypic.com/4purs8.jpg[/img]

And here a device at the same location. My conclusion is, the cilindric object is a rotating cover to protect this device when it was out use. Something similar to the rotating cupolas we find in german ships like Bismarck, Prinz Eugen and Scharnhörst.

[img]http://i62.tinypic.com/2dag6pu.jpg[/img]

And the cilindric cover again.

[img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2rg26g0.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i61.tinypic.com/25u61w3.jpg[/img]

A better view from device,

[img]http://i62.tinypic.com/24cbnlc.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i58.tinypic.com/f4r4ua.jpg[/img]

A good lateral cover view

[img]http://i61.tinypic.com/2dhac81.jpg[/img]

Vertical bars and hatches again. This picture is from 1938 naval parade. I have no idea about this bars.

[img]http://i60.tinypic.com/b51lyq.jpg[/img]

Best Regards,

Ricardo

[quote="Ramaja"]I think I need to rebuild my range finders: as they are they're not convincing me.
The back plate has angles instead of blending in the sides, the Barbette at the base should be probably enlarged even more out of the shape of the range finder itself, the front welded object seems the only thing which has a different angle instead of blending with the inclined upper plate, which IMO hasn't any convexity in it's shape: the inclined plan seems just a plate with no complex shape except for the embedded parapet.
Here are some plans and 3D modelling I guessed form the Pics I found and drawn in 1/350 scale. The only thing I'm not convinced of yet in the actual thickness of the front welded object which may be between 1.5 and 2mm but in that, changing the angling of the oblique plate. Overall the shape looks pretty convincing, especially rotating the actual 3D model on perspectives similar the the ones observable in the real photos.

NB: the two rear windows may be positioned slightly lower.
The black object above the RF main platform looks to be some kind of canvas, so I didn't include it
Some small detail could be inaccurate: better double check with references at hand.
The top element visible in the 1035 pic from R.Ricardo, doesn't always seem to be there, so I'm not really sure what it might be; probably something like a hatch or a movable element of some kind. Also check the "Ears" of the RF in the last two Pics form R.Ricardo: at the Base of the Ear in the second one seems to be some sort of "door" or something protruding up to half the outward. In the second pic the detail looks completely absent albeit being the same ship. I don't know what to do with that... :eyes_spinning:[/quote]


Hi Gianluigi,

I agree with mostly yours observations and I think you're in the correct way to be close to reality in this drawing. Nice work youre doing with this 3D view. :thumbsup1:

My only observation is, some pictures show something like a cilindric object at top cavity, may be covered by a dark canvas as you said. But I'm not sure about it because like some others details in this ship, seems to me these rangefinders change some details times to times.

Soon I'll post here some pictures I'm enlarging to aid you in your research.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

Lookking good :thumbs_up_1: I am following eagerly awaiting the finished result

I think I need to rebuild my range finders: as they are they're not convincing me.
The back plate has angles instead of blending in the sides, the Barbette at the base should be probably enlarged even more out of the shape of the range finder itself, the front welded object seems the only thing which has a different angle instead of blending with the inclined upper plate, which IMO hasn't any convexity in it's shape: the inclined plan seems just a plate with no complex shape except for the embedded parapet.
Here are some plans and 3D modelling I guessed form the Pics I found and drawn in 1/350 scale. The only thing I'm not convinced of yet in the actual thickness of the front welded object which may be between 1.5 and 2mm but in that, changing the angling of the oblique plate. Overall the shape looks pretty convincing, especially rotating the actual 3D model on perspectives similar the the ones observable in the real photos.

NB: the two rear windows may be positioned slightly lower.
The black object above the RF main platform looks to be some kind of canvas, so I didn't include it
Some small detail could be inaccurate: better double check with references at hand.
The top element visible in the 1035 pic from R.Ricardo, doesn't always seem to be there, so I'm not really sure what it might be; probably something like a hatch or a movable element of some kind. Also check the "Ears" of the RF in the last two Pics form R.Ricardo: at the Base of the Ear in the second one seems to be some sort of "door" or something protruding up to half the outward. In the second pic the detail looks completely absent albeit being the same ship. I don't know what to do with that... :eyes_spinning: