The Ship Model Forum

I'm a good sixty pages into the "Destroyer Actions" book at this moment. It gives a good overview of the naval situation and then concentrates of the Destroyers in their various actions. Several times a page, a good first hand account is put into the general text. These are quite interesting, many being taken from the IWM files of personal memiors. So far the RN has been the focus with quite a bit about the Polish DDs in RN service and a few interesting thing from German ships.
For a person with a huge library of books on the RN and it's ships, this book covers alot of old ground. But with modern insight and the personal accounts, it reads almost like new material.
An interesting take on the RN and it's attempt to acquire Bofors 40mm guns from the Swedes. Commander Huges-Hallett was given a staff position with the Director of Naval Operations in Feb 1936. He relates that an attempt was made to place an order for the 40mm and it's mounting with the Swedish firm. But due to the firm's production capacity being fully taken up for years ahead by a large order from the British War Office they were unable to take on the RN contract. Unless the RN footed the bill for the new factory that would have been necessary to increase production. The RN could not take on those costs. So that answers for me the question I've always had of why the British Army could field the bofors 40mm and the RN ships went without. :censored_2:

Bob B.

Mine's on order from the British Library, whats the referencing or bibliography like?

Did you receive my emails last week Jim of the 1 photo I had of Victoria on the pc?

I haven't found anything else as of yet, but have 1 or 2 more avenue's to try :heh:

I receidved the destroyer in action book via the publishers--chum-

have not read it a syet--or got into it-
seems ok at first glance!

JIM B

No probs

Laurence,
Much thanks for the heads up on the "Destroyer Actions"! :big_grin: This sort of thing is my bag! I've made great efforts over the years to build up as big a library as possible of personal memoirs of Naval Warfare. This book on the Phoney War period will fill a big gap in collection.
I have the Norway Staff history, but Oh they are so expensive for us Yanks :mad_1: My visits to the UK are also being curtailed by the rotten exchange rate. Dreams of rainy Sept. afternoons sifting through the IWM photo collection are fading fast. :censored_2:

Bob B.

I'm writing my academic thesis at present, which is turning into something my university is thinking about dishing out an award for in the future, it will be that good a piece of research.

So set forth the dogs! Just make sure their the Dogs of War! :heh:

Envy, well you have the USN archives get cracking young Sir!
It's not my fault your on the wrong side of the pond! :big_grin:

It is difficult to describe how much I envy you.
Not the travelling back and forth but having all the files to look at.
If you do not start writing something soon I shall set the dogs on you.

Another thing I'd like to make you aware of, I noticed these two books have finally come out.

[b][url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/o/ASIN/0714651796/ref=s9_asin_image_2/203-2419741-3979107[/url][/b]
[b][url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/o/ASIN/0714652059/ref=s9_asin_image_3/203-2419741-3979107[/url][/b]

These are those Admiralty Naval Staff Histories in the PRO we talked about a few weeks ago, of which I have the 1st 2 published on Norway and Dunkirk.

No way am I buying one again now I know I can get the originals free on my camera at the PRO, a nice new preface and fancy H/B boards won't make up for the very high price!

Yes your right I'll order it free through my university from the British Library and see if its any good.

Your right about official documents, reports, track charts, ships logs, historical summary's, war diaries, copies of orders etc etc.
There's a Brazilian rainforest forming in this room at present, for global warming blame me! :joker:

But I suppose me being me I like to look at everything and I often find these types of books useful in terms of their referencing and their research style, just as much as the actual factual content.

I've found in the past some authors list books and documents even myself I'm unaware of on the RN in ww2 (I'm too young to know! :heh: )

To answer your second point No I haven't.
Don't worry it will reveal itself just give me the time I need!
I'm back down there tomorrow all day and I've been making lists of files to view all weekend!
For yourself and others to grasp the situation, let me focus just on 1 Admiralty sub-series.

[b]ADM199 Admiralty: War History Cases and Papers, Second World War[/b]

There are 2600 files in this alone!
Each one is an operation, convoy report, battle summary etc
Now in my Speedy Gonzales fashion I can look at about 40-50 documents a day, think then how long it would take me to capture just that 1 subseries all on camera.
In my head the maths is 50 days non-stop work approx!
Therefore It could be years until I start to look at juicy Admiralty intelligence files!

Just in ADM199 subseries alone for a word search of Narvik see below what is there:- (Please note lots of other files on this are in ADM1, ADM116, ADM101, ADM267, ADM290, ADM214, not to mention War Office files, AIR dept files, Prime Ministers files etc)

ADM 199/473 Norway: first and second battles of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/474 Norway: first and second battles of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/475 Norway: first and second battles of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/476 Norway: first and second battles of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/477 Norway: first and second battles of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/478 Norway: first and second battles of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/479 Norway: Naval air operations 1940
ADM 199/480 Norway: Naval air operations 1940
ADM 199/481 Norway: anti-submarine measures 1940
ADM 199/482 Norway: military, Royal Marine and other operations 1940
ADM 199/483 Norway: military, Royal Marine and other operations 1940
ADM 199/484 Norway: miscellaneous papers including arrangements for the evacuation of the Crown Princess 1940
ADM 199/485 Norway: operation for the capture and subsequent evacuation of Narvik 1940-41
ADM 199/486 Norway: operation for the capture and subsequent evacuation of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/487 Norway: operation for the capture and subsequent evacuation of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/488 Norway: operation for the capture and subsequent evacuation of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/489 Norway: operation for the capture and subsequent evacuation of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/490 Norway: operation for the capture and subsequent evacuation of Narvik 1940
ADM 199/491 Norwegian and Danish shipping: disposition 1940
ADM 199/492 Norwegian and Danish shipping: detention 1940
ADM 199/493 Norwegian and Danish shipping: treatment, seizure and manning 1940
ADM 199/494 Norwegian and Danish shipping: transfer to Allied use 1940
ADM 199/495 Norwegian and Danish shipping: control, treatment 1940
ADM 199/496 Norwegian and Danish shipping: control, treatment 1940

Don't worry I'm not hear just to tell nice historical stories.
The historical analysis will go as deep as possible without making the thing unreadable :thumbs_up_1:

Cheers :lol_spit_1:


P.S To answer your 3rd question, still not found anything stating this yet. It may actually be published and I've read it as it rings a bell.

Another question comes to mind re the Norway campaign.
Which destroyers of the A-I group had circular gun pits that allowed greater elevation of some of the main armament?

Borrow from the library; if any good then buy the thing.
From the amount of official material that you have already aquired, I would think that commercial publications are rapidly becoming unnecessary.
Question; Have you found any official material on the development and use of the AIO? Why? eg, how did the lack of same affect operations off Norway? It certainly must have.
Difficult questions, but if you can address them, then yours will be a superior work.


[quote="Laurence Batchelor"]My latest Navy news turned up today and in it is a new book reviewed by Dr Eric Grove called [b]Destroyer Actions by Harry Plevy ISBN: 1862273316.[/b]

To my mind there's was very little been published on what the RN got upto in the 'Phoney War' period, and Ia ssume this book is looking to fill that void I thought I'd make everyone aware of this book as it looks to cover Royal Navy, German, Polish, French & Norwegian accounts in that early war period which again is to be commended, though it mainly concentrates on the RN and ships under Admiralty control.

However Grove gives this book quiet a poor review with describing the author as an undergraduate who often goes off the point and lacks historical context and makes many mistakes. He also points out the author states the first destroyers of the Royal Navy were the 1905 [i]Tribals[/i] which is nonsense! there was some 150 early DD's commissioned before that starting with [i]Havock & Hornet[/i]

Furthermore he constantly mispells German destroyer and cruiser names and the odd operation and Admiral's name. Despite these problems, according to Grove, the book still has the redeeming features of showing the ability for early war RN DD's to combat the Luftwaffe by 'dodging the bombs' to make up for their lack of a HA main armament and adequate close range AA etc.

It also gives a good indication to the reader of how if Sealion had gone ahead just how the Royal Navy's flotilla's would have had to become the 'walls of Britain' and how they might have stood up against the Luftwaffe and German Destroyers in their flotilla's. Most intriguing hypothetical topic! :woo_hoo:

Depite the failings of this book I still think I might order this as there's very little coverage on this time period and it should certainly teach me something! I provide the link below so one can see it:-

[b][url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Destroyer-Actions-September-1939-June/dp/1862273316/sr=1-1/qid=1172491014/ref=sr_1_1/203-2419741-3979107?ie=UTF8&s=books[/url][/b]

If anyone has this book or knows more about it or the author I'm be interested to know!
Cheers[/quote]

My latest Navy news turned up today and in it is a new book reviewed by Dr Eric Grove called [b]Destroyer Actions by Harry Plevy ISBN: 1862273316.[/b]

To my mind there's has been very little been published on what the RN got upto in the 'Phoney War' period, and I assume this book is looking to fill that void. I thought I'd make everyone aware of this book as it looks to cover the Royal Navy, German, Polish, French & Norwegian accounts in that early war period in destroyers which again is to be commended, though it mainly concentrates on the RN and ships under Admiralty control.

Grove however gives this book quite a poor review describing the author as an undergraduate who often goes off the point and lacks historical context and makes many mistakes. He also points out the author states the first destroyers of the Royal Navy were the 1905 [i]Tribals[/i] which is nonsense! there was some 150 early DD's commissioned before that starting with [i]Havock & Hornet[/i]

Furthermore he constantly mispells German destroyer and cruiser names and the odd operational codename and Admiral's and RN DD names. Despite these problems, according to Grove, the book still has the redeeming features of showing the ability for early war RN DD's to combat the Luftwaffe by 'dodging the bombs' to make up for their lack of a HA main armament and adequate close range AA and HA directors etc.

It also gives a good indication to the reader of how if Sealion had gone ahead just how the Royal Navy's flotilla's would have had to become the 'walls of Britain' and how they might have stood up against the Luftwaffe and German Destroyers in their flotilla's. Most intriguing hypothetical topic! :woo_hoo:

Depite the failings of this book I still think I might order this as there's very little coverage on this time period and it should certainly teach me something! I provide the link below so one can see it:-

[b][url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Destroyer-Actions-September-1939-June/dp/1862273316/sr=1-1/qid=1172491014/ref=sr_1_1/203-2419741-3979107?ie=UTF8&s=books[/url][/b]

If anyone has this book or knows more about it or the author I'm be interested to know!
Cheers