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wr wrote: It will have to come from someone who has the most detailed knowledge of appearence/configeration, who has exceptional ability to draw and is prepared to spend at least ten years doing the work. Immediately after publication it will probably be scanned page by page for anybody who wants it free of charge via the internet. This is one of the reasons why I have not produced in recent years any detailed plans of Royal Navy ships as they appear during WW11 showing various changes.
This may be said to be a shame and selfish. However all the material is available to anyone else but they would have to do a substantial amount of digging.
Of the very few that engage in real research there is an understandable reluctance to allow free and unrestricted use of the material they have collected, and with widespread theft through the internet this will not change. Material will be passed on but only to a very select few who can be trusted. An unfortunate state of affairs.
There is NO substitute for original research.
BRAVO!!! Very succinctly put. I could not agree more.
I had the very real honour of being trusted with WW2 films of the IJN Shinano and IJN Shimakaze. Priceless information that cannot be found anywhere else. A certain individual hacked my server and started downloading the file. Fortunately there was a sting in the tail that eradicated ALL information on the receiving end, both new and old. He will not be doing that again.
So questions are still being asked about those two ships, supposedly unanswerable,- but the information DOES exist. But because of the perfidy of individuals, is not freely available to the chagrin of those of us who are desperate for information and are willing to do the right thing.
It is surprising what is available if you go about it the right way and observe protocol, however time is getting short as more and more of the participants pass on and information is gone forever. The hard copy disappears with them.
Enough of my rant  Sore point.
Art [quote="wr"]It will have to come from someone who has the most detailed knowledge of appearence/configeration, who has exceptional ability to draw and is prepared to spend at least ten years doing the work. Immediately after publication it will probably be scanned page by page for anybody who wants it free of charge via the internet. This is one of the reasons why I have not produced in recent years any detailed plans of Royal Navy ships as they appear during WW11 showing various changes.
This may be said to be a shame and selfish. However all the material is available to anyone else but they would have to do a substantial amount of digging.
Of the very few that engage in real research there is an understandable reluctance to allow free and unrestricted use of the material they have collected, and with widespread theft through the internet this will not change. Material will be passed on but only to a very select few who can be trusted. An unfortunate state of affairs.
There is NO substitute for original research.
[/quote]
BRAVO!!! Very succinctly put. I could not agree more.
I had the very real honour of being trusted with WW2 films of the IJN Shinano and IJN Shimakaze. Priceless information that cannot be found anywhere else. A certain individual hacked my server and started downloading the file. Fortunately there was a sting in the tail that eradicated ALL information on the receiving end, both new and old. He will not be doing that again.
So questions are still being asked about those two ships, supposedly unanswerable,- but the information DOES exist. But because of the perfidy of individuals, is not freely available to the chagrin of those of us who are desperate for information and are willing to do the right thing.
It is surprising what is available if you go about it the right way and observe protocol, however time is getting short as more and more of the participants pass on and information is gone forever. The hard copy disappears with them.
Enough of my rant :big_grin: Sore point.
Art
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:37 pm |
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After reading your post again, I now remember what I wished to mention to you as regards your comments, its not urgent, I'll put it in a letter sometime later this year.
After reading your post again, I now remember what I wished to mention to you as regards your comments, its not urgent, I'll put it in a letter sometime later this year.
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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:25 pm |
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Is your email up and running? I wish to make comments to you in private.
Is your email up and running? I wish to make comments to you in private.
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:46 pm |
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It will have to come from someone who has the most detailed knowledge of appearence/configeration, who has exceptional ability to draw and is prepared to spend at least ten years doing the work. Immediately after publication it will probably be scanned page by page for anybody who wants it free of charge via the internet. This is one of the reasons why I have not produced in recent years any detailed plans of Royal Navy ships as they appear during WW11 showing various changes.
I am contemplating drawing a set of plans of one of the Fiji class circa 1942, but not so that everyone can have free use of it, which means that if done it will probably go into frame and hang on the wall after being used for making a model. This may be said to be a shame and selfish. However all the material is available to anyone else but they would have to do a substantial amount of digging.
Of the very few that engage in real research there is an understandable reluctance to allow free and unrestricted use of the material they have collected, and with widespread theft through the internet this will not change. Material will be passed on but only to a very select few who can be trusted. An unfortunate state of affairs.
There is NO substitute for original research.
Lozza1981 wrote: So where will the one for model makers come from? It will have to come from someone who has the most detailed knowledge of appearence/configeration, who has exceptional ability to draw and is prepared to spend at least ten years doing the work. Immediately after publication it will probably be scanned page by page for anybody who wants it free of charge via the internet. This is one of the reasons why I have not produced in recent years any detailed plans of Royal Navy ships as they appear during WW11 showing various changes.
I am contemplating drawing a set of plans of one of the Fiji class circa 1942, but not so that everyone can have free use of it, which means that if done it will probably go into frame and hang on the wall after being used for making a model. This may be said to be a shame and selfish. However all the material is available to anyone else but they would have to do a substantial amount of digging.
Of the very few that engage in real research there is an understandable reluctance to allow free and unrestricted use of the material they have collected, and with widespread theft through the internet this will not change. Material will be passed on but only to a very select few who can be trusted. An unfortunate state of affairs.
There is NO substitute for original research.
[quote="Lozza1981"]So where will the one for model makers come from?[/quote]
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:17 pm |
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wr wrote: The two volume book by Friedman will be a technical one, and not for model makers. It will however contain many photos and accurate drawings.
Sounds very useful all the same. Of course the challenge with modelling any RN destroyer or any escort for that matter is in trying to get the right layout, armament, radar and camoflage scheme for the particular period. No one volume could ever do this, but a sound and reliable volume on the technical details will certainly be extremely welcome.
Mike [quote="wr"]The two volume book by Friedman will be a technical one, and not for model makers. It will however contain many photos and accurate drawings.
[/quote]
Sounds very useful all the same. Of course the challenge with modelling any RN destroyer or any escort for that matter is in trying to get the right layout, armament, radar and camoflage scheme for the particular period. No one volume could ever do this, but a sound and reliable volume on the technical details will certainly be extremely welcome.
Mike
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:25 pm |
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So where will the one for model makers come from?
So where will the one for model makers come from?
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:30 pm |
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The two volume book by Friedman will be a technical one, and not for model makers. It will however contain many photos and accurate drawings.
Lozza1981 wrote: mike mccabe wrote: starshell wrote: Madness indeed! Some people just never do enough searching of maritime bookshops before they overbid on Ebay. You can still get Afridi to Nizam brand new from Navybooks.com for £25 inc. p&p  Oh and YAWN  ................not another new book on destroyers, it must be getting difficult to write something significantly new on these by now. Well the Amazon to Ivanhoe finished at £93.00 so I suppose if a new book contains some of the information and perhaps photos then at least it will be more readily available. I don't know of a good volume to cover all RN destroyers a la Raven battleships and cruisers, so personally I would welcome something in that vein. The problem for those with an interest in RN destroyers is that the good references are often hard to come by and can be expensive, as we have just seen. Mike Exactely my thinking Mike, though hopefully this Freidman book will go some way to resolve this. If it doesn't then I won't be happy!   The two volume book by Friedman will be a technical one, and not for model makers. It will however contain many photos and accurate drawings.
[quote="Lozza1981"][quote="mike mccabe"][quote="starshell"]Madness indeed! Some people just never do enough searching of maritime bookshops before they overbid on Ebay. You can still get Afridi to Nizam brand new from Navybooks.com for £25 inc. p&p :roll:
Oh and YAWN :sleepy: ................not another new book on destroyers, it must be getting difficult to write something significantly new on these by now.[/quote]
Well the Amazon to Ivanhoe finished at £93.00 so I suppose if a new book contains some of the information and perhaps photos then at least it will be more readily available. I don't know of a good volume to cover all RN destroyers a la Raven battleships and cruisers, so personally I would welcome something in that vein. The problem for those with an interest in RN destroyers is that the good references are often hard to come by and can be expensive, as we have just seen.
Mike[/quote]
Exactely my thinking Mike, though hopefully this Freidman book will go some way to resolve this. If it doesn't then I won't be happy! :mad_1: :censored_2: :mad_1:[/quote]
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:50 am |
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mike mccabe wrote: starshell wrote: Madness indeed! Some people just never do enough searching of maritime bookshops before they overbid on Ebay. You can still get Afridi to Nizam brand new from Navybooks.com for £25 inc. p&p Oh and YAWN ................not another new book on destroyers, it must be getting difficult to write something significantly new on these by now. Well the Amazon to Ivanhoe finished at £93.00 so I suppose if a new book contains some of the information and perhaps photos then at least it will be more readily available. I don't know of a good volume to cover all RN destroyers a la Raven battleships and cruisers, so personally I would welcome something in that vein. The problem for those with an interest in RN destroyers is that the good references are often hard to come by and can be expensive, as we have just seen. Mike Exactely my thinking Mike, though hopefully this Freidman book will go some way to resolve this. If it doesn't then I won't be happy! [quote="mike mccabe"][quote="starshell"]Madness indeed! Some people just never do enough searching of maritime bookshops before they overbid on Ebay. You can still get Afridi to Nizam brand new from Navybooks.com for £25 inc. p&p :roll:
Oh and YAWN :sleepy: ................not another new book on destroyers, it must be getting difficult to write something significantly new on these by now.[/quote]
Well the Amazon to Ivanhoe finished at £93.00 so I suppose if a new book contains some of the information and perhaps photos then at least it will be more readily available. I don't know of a good volume to cover all RN destroyers a la Raven battleships and cruisers, so personally I would welcome something in that vein. The problem for those with an interest in RN destroyers is that the good references are often hard to come by and can be expensive, as we have just seen.
Mike[/quote]
Exactely my thinking Mike, though hopefully this Freidman book will go some way to resolve this. If it doesn't then I won't be happy! :mad_1: :censored_2: :mad_1:
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:31 am |
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starshell wrote: Madness indeed! Some people just never do enough searching of maritime bookshops before they overbid on Ebay. You can still get Afridi to Nizam brand new from Navybooks.com for £25 inc. p&p Oh and YAWN ................not another new book on destroyers, it must be getting difficult to write something significantly new on these by now. Well the Amazon to Ivanhoe finished at £93.00 so I suppose if a new book contains some of the information and perhaps photos then at least it will be more readily available. I don't know of a good volume to cover all RN destroyers a la Raven battleships and cruisers, so personally I would welcome something in that vein. The problem for those with an interest in RN destroyers is that the good references are often hard to come by and can be expensive, as we have just seen.
Mike [quote="starshell"]Madness indeed! Some people just never do enough searching of maritime bookshops before they overbid on Ebay. You can still get Afridi to Nizam brand new from Navybooks.com for £25 inc. p&p :roll:
Oh and YAWN :sleepy: ................not another new book on destroyers, it must be getting difficult to write something significantly new on these by now.[/quote]
Well the Amazon to Ivanhoe finished at £93.00 so I suppose if a new book contains some of the information and perhaps photos then at least it will be more readily available. I don't know of a good volume to cover all RN destroyers a la Raven battleships and cruisers, so personally I would welcome something in that vein. The problem for those with an interest in RN destroyers is that the good references are often hard to come by and can be expensive, as we have just seen.
Mike
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:08 am |
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Yeah thats a few years more modern so there's still the odd one around new.
Amazon to Ivanhoe is 1993 so all new stock has gone.
It's annoying for those that haven't got it that the Society won't consider reprinting.
Yeah thats a few years more modern so there's still the odd one around new.
Amazon to Ivanhoe is 1993 so all new stock has gone.
It's annoying for those that haven't got it that the Society won't consider reprinting.
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:44 pm |
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Madness indeed! Some people just never do enough searching of maritime bookshops before they overbid on Ebay. You can still get Afridi to Nizam brand new from Navybooks.com for £25 inc. p&p
Oh and YAWN ................not another new book on destroyers, it must be getting difficult to write something significantly new on these by now. Madness indeed! Some people just never do enough searching of maritime bookshops before they overbid on Ebay. You can still get Afridi to Nizam brand new from Navybooks.com for £25 inc. p&p :roll:
Oh and YAWN :sleepy: ................not another new book on destroyers, it must be getting difficult to write something significantly new on these by now.
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:37 pm |
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Sheer madness!!!
[url]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AMAZON-TO-IVANHOE-DESTROYERS-NAVAL-HISTORY-WARSHIPS_W0QQitemZ8425562435QQcategoryZ64304QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
I have no affilihation with this seller btw!
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:36 am |
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I see the current eBay one is upto £56!!!
As there isn't one on abebooks, amazon or bookfinder I can see why the price rockets up!!!
I see the current eBay one is upto £56!!!
As there isn't one on abebooks, amazon or bookfinder I can see why the price rockets up!!!
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:27 pm |
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Lozza1981 wrote: John English tells me there's no chance of republishing I'm afraid, if you see one snap it up!!!
Maybe I'm selfish but it sounds good
Buying mine copy for 8 Pounds at abebook.com from bookseller specialised in aircraft books four years ago I did business of the life concerning today's prices 
My heirs will bless me getting all these Roberts', Burt's, English's.
It seems these books are more "profitable" than shares of many Companies
(for not shiplovers of course, and my potential heirs don't share this
interest  ) [quote="Lozza1981"]John English tells me there's no chance of republishing I'm afraid, if you see one snap it up!!![/quote]
Maybe I'm selfish but it sounds good :mad_1:
Buying mine copy for 8 Pounds at abebook.com from bookseller specialised in aircraft books four years ago I did business of the life concerning today's prices :thumbs_up_1:
My heirs will bless me getting all these Roberts', Burt's, English's.
It seems these books are more "profitable" than shares of many Companies :thumbs_up_1:
(for not shiplovers of course, and my potential heirs don't share this
interest :lol_4: )
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:08 am |
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John English tells me there's no chance of republishing I'm afraid, if you see one snap it up!!!
John English tells me there's no chance of republishing I'm afraid, if you see one snap it up!!!
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:21 am |
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There's one Amazon to Ivanhoe on eBay now fella's.
Also I reccommend you chaps becoming World Ship Society members like I am, you get offered their own publications at considerable savings 
I've just asked him, just for you Dan There's one Amazon to Ivanhoe on eBay now fella's.
Also I reccommend you chaps becoming World Ship Society members like I am, you get offered their own publications at considerable savings :cool_2:
I've just asked him, just for you Dan :big_grin:
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:24 pm |
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Amazon to Ivanhoe |
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Dan
They are rarer than a Burt Battleship book. I haunted Ebay for ages before I got mine. Good luck with your search.
It's indeed good news that John English's next book will be out soon. Thanks for the info Laurence.
Terry
Santiago
Dan
They are rarer than a Burt Battleship book. I haunted Ebay for ages before I got mine. Good luck with your search.
It's indeed good news that John English's next book will be out soon. Thanks for the info Laurence.
Terry
Santiago
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:17 pm |
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Ask him to re-print Amazon to Ivanhoe just for me, will ya?
I'm on needle-tips trying to locate one! 
Thanks, Laurence! Ask him to re-print [i]Amazon to Ivanhoe[/i] just for me, will ya?
I'm on needle-tips trying to locate one! :mad_2:
Thanks, Laurence!
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:10 pm |
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Laurence,
Thanks for the tip off, I'll be adding that one to the list.
Mike
Laurence,
Thanks for the tip off, I'll be adding that one to the list.
Mike
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:03 pm |
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New British WW2 Destroyer Book forthcoming |
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I had chance to speak with Mr John English this week.
He let me know his final destroyer book is due out late next year and again will be the usual format and through the World Ship Society again.
It will cover all the remaining wartime classes he's not written about and end just before the Daring's.
Off the top of my head his last book ended at Nizam the N-class so the new book should include:-
O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, Z, CA, CO, CR, CH with maybe the Weapon class also 
I'll drink to that  I had chance to speak with Mr John English this week.
He let me know his final destroyer book is due out late next year and again will be the usual format and through the World Ship Society again.
It will cover all the remaining wartime classes he's not written about and end just before the Daring's.
Off the top of my head his last book ended at Nizam the N-class so the new book should include:-
O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, Z, CA, CO, CR, CH with maybe the Weapon class also :cool_1:
I'll drink to that :lol_spit_1: :thumbs_up_1:
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:54 pm |
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