The Ship Model Forum

question : why not hire pirates , i mean they got experience . The hard part is to keep them in line for the loot "payday"

And the ships look awesome.

Good point DavidP. I wasn't thinking of the OHP's as a long term solution to Scottlands Naval needs but an inexpensive short term solution. I like the Spanish F-100 class Frigates as a better bang for buck, long term solution. I'm not putting down the British designs but they, like American designs seem expensive for what you get. Again I do not care about RCS as I believe it is way too hyped up. I do think intergration and defense in depth are important for Naval units and that is why I like the Aegis system.

The ram bow ship is great in rough seas. Like a floating energizer bunny. The utility of the design has brought it back. They are used quite heavily in the oil industry, especially in the North Sea and in the newer Irish offshore oil fields.

A nice video of how it works:
http://youtu.be/GJsogw9fHE0

They are constructed and prepared for surface to air, but the misers in our government decided that the defence budget needed to be cut again, and the navy had to manage without.
The range is 2300 nautical miles at 15 knots.

Sorry Denstore, no thanks. I am an old veteran and not impressed with wiz bang. Your corvettes have the same flaw that the LCS ships do in that they have no real effective surface to air. I know ships are not expected to function solo but it seems to me no new ship should be built which is not capable of surviving in a modern threat scenario, and I cannot imagine a threat scenario with no air componant.OHP's deployed with the fleet and thus were expected to face any threat the fleet did. They were also designed for convoy or anphib escort where they would need to stand more on their own. I also have very little faith in reduction of RCS. Ships must live for decades and weapons systems evolve much faster. I do admit they look cool. What is their endurance?

I'm sure our navy could sell you our new corvettes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visby_class_corvette
Lots of our politicians would be very happy to get rid of them.
At least they look quite cool.....

I have enjoyed this thread. I am not sure a heli-carrier would be essential but at least 3 and preferably 4 Destroyer or Frigate type vessels capable of operating helicopters would be needed. In the previous threads I mentioned some hulls. Used hulls are way cheaper in the front but can be expensive over time as maintenance outlays are going to be higher. There are many used ships out there though and it is an inexpensive way to start.

Several Navies operate the Oliver Hazard Perry frigates, and the US is in the process of decommissioning them so they would be a possibility. I have wondered if it would be viable to put an 8 cell VLS where the 3" gun is and a 4.5" or 5" gun where the missile launcher is. This upgrade, with associated radar, targeting and electronic upgrades would make an OHP very effective. Only thing missing would be a millennium gun for small craft. Would it fit above and to the rear of the hanger? I have been thinking about modeling this idea and have no issue with a Scottish flag on it as I know the US won't do it. Instead they build P.O.S. LCS's. I am not sure if the hull could handle the weight up high where the VLS would have to go, especially when you add targeting radars for the missiles.

Whatever the Scotts settle on they should plan for a credible force for coastal defense/ patrol, disaster relief, and support of other NATO Navies. A credible force is a source of National pride, and an indication that the country takes its sovereignty serious.

Well, that's what I'm saying. They need maritime patrol aircraft. Then the smaller but capable ships that are very seaworthy, given the nature of the waters to be patrolled. Their support needs would be dictated by the area to be patrolled that are outside of convenient land resupply points such as the Hebrides or the many lochs with sea access. Of course if they want to show the flag around the world, they'd need support shiping.
If you'd like to see what's there, check it out on Google Earth.

well i guess the only purpose the scottish navy would have then is to monitor what and who is coming in and going out , for example drug trafficing and to keep a eye out for small raiders and terrorists , what am i missing ? ?

As the blue of Britain's flag is not the same shade as that of Scotland's, it shouldn't be an issue. Though I hadn't been aware of that symbolism with regard to the Brit flag.

Diederick,
True enough that helicopter carriers are useful for non-war situations, how useful would they be in Scot's non-war situations? For Scotland itself, there aren't any areas that are out of range of land based helicopters. For Scotland's ocean areas of interest, the same can be said and could also be handled by whirlybirds flying from destroyer size vessels. About the only area of interest where they might be useful would be the Scots North Sea islands.

Now if Scotland chooses to get into humanitarian foreign assistance, a helicopter carrier would indeed be useful. But there again, you don't really need the weapons and sensors of a naval ship for such a role.

So we still come back to Scotland's national interests and priorities.

that is actually a great question , would the pommies and scots start a war because of flag colours ? ?

Not completely unrelated:
Wouldn't the remaining Not-Quite-So-Great-Anymore-Britain have to remove the blue from the union jack?
And wouldn't, as a consequence, the RAF have to repaint all roundels and fin flashes from blue-red to white-red?

Funny thought...
Michi

a few helicopter carriers are a must for any navy , because navy's arent just for war . A coastal country without a navy is a sitting duck . But the main thing is how does one plan a balanced navy with so much technological developments ? ?

The more I think about the question, the more aspects seem to play into an answer. The nature and size of the Navy you need will depend upon the national interests to be protected. Therefore, will you have interests to be protected that are outside of the North East Atlantic region? If not, do you really need multiple fleet auxiliaries for resupply and refueling when there are so many nice lochs to duck into for needed resupply? Do you really need a helicopter carrier?

wow they are quite strange looking ships , a can see a few myths born with this strange design in stormy waters , but the design is quite strange , what about meko's ? ? They can be refitted quickly and also be changed for a different role

How about something like the proposed medium endurance cutter replacements? Interesting looking if nothing else!



http://vigorindustrial.com/services/off ... tters-more

a small coast guard fleet is a great start , how about a few UAV's to help the coast guards moniter the coast waters until better ships are availible ? ?

The update is that the pro-independence SNP has just voted (narrowly) for NATO membership. This would bring some specific obligations of course.

Naturally his is only guidance, even if the referendum goes for independence in 2014, the subsequent negotiations and election in 2016 might change the outcome.

The issue of the Clyde yards is still a challenge but as they are owned by BAE, which is really 60% American, it would be hard to see them close.

My personal navy?
Simple arming of the Scottish Fisheries protection fleet, conversion to Coast Guard duties, additional 10 based on Swedish or local design
4-5 new type 28 frigates, perhaps more multi-role than the RN envisages right now
2 Bay-class LPDs, RN selling them anyway
Suitable RFA support, oilers primarily
Leased Maritime patrol A/C, anything is better then the nothing we have now since Nimrods were grounded
NH70, Merlin, Lynx helos
Probably no subs, definitely no nukes & bombers
Some would come from the RN, after all we've paid for 10% of it as it stands.
All based at the vacated ex-nuke Faslane base

the main question is , which would be better , renting or buying ? ? Both have great advantages but cons aswell , what do you guys think ? ?