The Ship Model Forum

Hi Tom,

My recollection is that the battlecruisers were in a lighter grey than the Battle Line.

John,

Thanks. Aside from any of the vessels which might still be wearing camouflage, do you know whether or not Beatty’s battlecruisers were in the same color as the main battlefleet at Jutland?

Hi Tom,

Q. Is GW 05 based on a color used just for the dazzle schemes?
A. Offhand, I don't know. I have all the WW1 camo design sheets from NARA in the material Ron sent me, but simply have not had time to go through them.

Q. As for colors at the time of Jutland, how about QUEEN ELIZABETH? There is a photo in Burt’s Battleships of World War One of QE in 1918 (p 262) that show her in a light grey scheme which I assume corresponds to the recommendations on the WEM site (i.e. GW 01). There are also a couple of photos (p 253) from 1915 in what appears to be a mid-grey color. Would this correspond to GW 02? Would this color have also been used for other units in the main battle line in 1916?
A. Let me do some checking and get back to you. With regard to the last part of the question, my assumption is that the entire Battle Line would have been in the same color.

John,

Thanks for the background info on the colors. Is GW 05 based on a color used just for the dazzle schemes?

As for colors at the time of Jutland, how about QUEEN ELIZABETH? There is a photo in Burt’s Battleships of World War One of QE in 1918 (p 262) that show her in a light grey scheme which I assume corresponds to the recommendations on the WEM site (i.e. GW 01). There are also a couple of photos (p 253) from 1915 in what appears to be a mid-grey color. Would this correspond to GW 02? Would this color have also been used for other units in the main battle line in 1916?

Q. What do each these five colors actually represent? What was the source?
A. The source of the WW1 colors is actual original samples held by the US National Archives. Ron Smith matched all of the extant samples to the 1929 Munsell Book of Color. Ron kindly supplied me (and Tracy White) with copies of these data, as well as color matches he prepared. We were able to use these to produce a range of WW1 camouflage colors in Colourcoats (note that this range represents perhaps half of the colors). These were colors used by both the USN and RN in WW1.

Q. It is always a bit tricky to evaluate shades of color from black and white photographs.
A. Because the WW1 greys/grays were, for the most part, neutral, there really isn't much of an inherent problem in interpreting from historical photos.

Q. Other than comparing photos, is there any publicly available historical source that addresses this question? For example, the painting notes on the WEM site recommend GW 02 for DREADNOUGHT during WWI, but give GW 01 for QUEEN ELIZABETH in 1918. There is obviously some basis for these recommendations.
A. There is no single source. I use books in my personal library, as well as online photos.

Q. Can anyone point to any documentation available regarding which grey was worn at Jutland?
A. By which ship(s)? Photographic evidence indicates the battlecruisers were painted differently from the battleships of the battle line. Again, it's a case of examining available photos and making an educated call.

John,

Thanks for your quick reply. There is indeed a dark grey color that I missed (GW 05).

I understand wanting to be careful about making general statements, but I was hoping you could provide some additional guidance on the proper use of the GW greys. Let me try coming at it from a different direction. What do each these five colors actually represent? What was the source?

It is always a bit tricky to evaluate shades of color from black and white photographs. That said, it looks to me in general as if the major units of the Grand Fleet appear lighter in many photographs towards the end of the war than during the early to mid-war period. Other than comparing photos, is there any publicly available historical source that addresses this question? For example, the painting notes on the WEM site recommend GW 02 for DREADNOUGHT during WWI, but give GW 01 for QUEEN ELIZABETH in 1918. There is obviously some basis for these recommendations.

Can anyone point to any documentation available regarding which grey was worn at Jutland?

There are five WW1 greys, not four, and I'm not at a point of making generalizations about which may have been in use where and at what time. I can only look at photos and make an educated estimate of which ship was wearing which grey at the time of the photo. Beyond that I am not prepared to go.

It is my understanding that major RN vessels (at least in home waters) started the First World War in a dark grey color which is evident in many pre-war photographs. However, at some point early in the war this was replaced by a lighter “mid” grey of some kind. Ignoring the numerous brief flirtations with camouflage (using stripes, spots, etc.), was this mid grey generally worn for the remainder of the war, or was it replaced by an even lighter grey at some point? If the later, at what point did the changeover occur?

WEM colourcoats include four WWI grey RN paints, but it is not entirely clear to me which historical colors they represent. From the camouflage notes for DREADNOUGHT and QUEEN ELIZABETH on the WEM site I would guess the following:

GW 03 = pre-war dark grey (vertical surfaces)
GW 02 = early-war mid grey (vertical surfaces)
GW 01 = late-war lighter grey (vertical surfaces, forerunner of AP507C?)
GW 04 = very dark grey (horizontal surfaces)

Can John or someone else shed some further light on this?

Thanks John,

That's just what I needed

Hi Glen,

They're marked as Great War (GW) colours:

https://www.whiteensignmodels.com/c/WWI ... urs/421/1/

Hi John,

Thanks for the quick reply.

The RN WWI colours at WEM, are they marked as WWI colours?

We've got many of the RN WW1 colours available in our Colourcoats enamels. AP 507A & C were later developments, postwar, but had their genesis in the earlier colours. AP 507B was (IIRC) developed about 1940 and had no relationship to the WW1 colours.

Is there any info on Royal Navy colours used during WWI. If known, was there any connection to the ABC colours from the beginning of WWII.