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SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

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[quote="bgire"]Hi Neal, :wave_1: Just wanted to add we must thank Jim Baumann for the annealing idea to get more ductile nickel alloy. As for the "steel hull flexibility" this shouldn't be any as soon as the space between frames are filled with solid blocks. So no need to reinforce the framing. See my built of USS Minneapolis lower hull here: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=57462 (scroll down to bottom of page one) You can fill the spacing using any material which is softer than metal: balsa wood, prototyping board: during the following filling-sanding stage, metal frames serve as natural template/ stopping device to get the correct shape without any checking measurement: that's the very reason this method is GREAT! And about the gun ports: no need to have a recess box behind each one. Remind you'll have to glue the 60 guns protruding through the ports: the masters I designed and we got turned by the excellent Piotr of Master Models only include the protruding part. The best solution is to fill the space inside the armor plates, only leaving the recess resulting from the plate thickness (.2mm), then painting this shallow recess flat black and gluing a gun right in the middle. Each gun will cover about 85% of the port area, so it's OK for me. _Bruno[/quote]

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Topic review - SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

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bgire

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Hello Solferino addicts :wave_1:

Yesterday's addition to the shipboat complement: the 10meters steam motor launch

Love this one with it's true "Jules Verne" look.
More to follow. All will be sent to the printer next month.
_Bruno

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:21 am

wefalck

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Good to see. Looking forward to see the 'real' thingies.

wefalck

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:33 am

bgire

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

wefalck wrote:

Does it really ?

YES

Fresh from last week:

10.50metre chaloupe and 5metre youyou, the five other types of boats nearly completed... I'll post them tomorrow. All will be sent for printing by early November.
_Bruno

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:47 am

wefalck

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Does it really ?

wefalck

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:22 pm

JIM BAUMANN

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

ah the project continues on!

JIM B :thumbs_up_1:

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:43 pm

wefalck

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Good to hear that you went to 3D-printing. I agree that in many cases PE-parts just are too 2D.

Keeping fingers crossed for your prints.

wefalck

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:56 am

bgire

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

yes... a whole year. heavy workload, you know...
I spent my "modeling time" learning how to use 3D CAD and 3D part design and successfully tested it on four new kits.
I decided to proceed that way as I had encountered difficulties with accurate rendering of smaller parts. Some kind of perfectionism, you know...
For ex. Solferino ship-boat complement, anchors, etc... generally speaking: all the part for which PE doesn't give enough volume.
Now, after 500+ hours of CAD work over 14 months I can handle these complex shapes and I've started to design parts for Solferino.
I sent them to the printer three weeks ago and I'm waiting (with crossed fingers, both hands and feet) for the resulting parts.
Here are renderings of the anchors I designed last summer:

The anchors:

Gun-port lids :

My first printed parts: the anchors. Will be improved soon.

More to come in about six weeks with (I hope) the ship-boat complement...
_Bruno

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:43 am

wefalck

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

A year on an I am wondering what happened to this project ?

wefalck

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:13 am

callen

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

mathias wrote:

Hi!

I love the ships of this period and I just had to say, that this is one of the most interesting projects on the internet.
Great job!

Goodness. High praise indeed. Thank you sir! Very kind.

mathias wrote:

Is there any chance, you are going to build some more ships of the Atlas du genie maritime (the Valmy or maybe the Montebello)?
As I am running out of space, I currently looking for 1:700 late sailing ships and early steelnavy (1830-1880). Are you going to sell some casted resin-ships? (sorry if I missed that thing as i read through this topic).

Keep on the great work!
Greetings,
Mathew

I will let Bruno handle these questions. Bruno and I have spoken quite a bit about other ships of this era, and I can say we are planning other projects together, but what exactly and when is more up to him than it is up to me.

I will say that at one point Bruno and I planned to launch a ship model company together, which was to be called 'New World Modelworks' (NWM for short) But my music career has ramped up to the point where that has become impractical.

And on that head, I must make something in the way of an apology here. Since last November I have been writing a symphony, and it is now in the deadline phase and is eating up every spare minute I have. I had intended to get a lot more done on this project by now than I have been able to. In fact, I have not modeled at all in over a month, which is a very difficult situation for me. The good news is, in about a week or so I will be able to resume work on my models, so you will soon see more posts. I am hoping that my plans for the contest season this year have not been wrecked by my music ambitions, but if they have, well... I suppose there's always next year.

Happy Modeling! :wave_1:

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:16 pm

mathias

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Hi!

I love the ships of this period and I just had to say, that this is one of the most interesting projects on the internet.
Great job!

Is there any chance, you are going to build some more ships of the Atlas du genie maritime (the Valmy or maybe the Montebello)?
As I am running out of space, I currently looking for 1:700 late sailing ships and early steelnavy (1830-1880). Are you going to sell some casted resin-ships? (sorry if I missed that thing as i read through this topic).

Keep on the great work!
Greetings,
Mathew

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:44 am

wefalck

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

I agree with you for the 1/700 scale, but in the 1/350 scale it could be different.

wefalck

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:26 pm

bgire

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

I understand and fully agree with you: the use of natural looking material like copper, brass, steel and wood is absolutely beautiful... at a larger scale.
My 1:700 kit is barely 12cm long, too small for realistic rendering with paint or real material.
Errr, maybe I also forgot to write my aim is to produce a scaled realistic looking kit, hence the diorama. This explains my choices.
_Bruno

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:46 pm

wefalck

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

I didn't mean to imply that the finishing of the models in the Musée de la Marine is naturalistic. In fact they show off the armour belt by leaving it in bare steel. Other metallic items are often also bare metal - brass, bronze or steel/iron. In most cases the outside of the hulls are painted a darkish grey. The inside of bulwarks are either natural wood or white. Cowls, vents and similar are either painted in the prototype colour or left bare to show off the metal spinners' work, mostly in copper. Etc., etc.

Actually, I find this form of presentation quite attractive and have pondered making a 'model of a model' like this one day myself. Since you use an etching in steel for the armour belt on the master, this may be an idea ...

wefalck

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:06 pm

bgire

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

wefalck wrote:

One question actually: the inside of the armoured conning tower looks rather different from the one in the model. There it has a slightly domed iron deck with rails around. You also painted the deck inside white - I would have assumed a wooden deck there; at least HMS WARRIOR was fitted like this, if I remember correctly.
Did you get the pictures of the model in Paris I emailed to you last week ? I hope they didn't block your mail box.
wefalck

Hello,
Yes I got your pictures which will help me on smaller details.
The armored tower isn't yet finished. I'll add a surrounding platform and that kind of deck above.

About the colors: the models in the Musée de la Marine (at last those before 1900) are former exhibition models which were made when the ship was about to enter service and aimed at the Etat-major or other high ranking levels. They are true works of Art and their makers wanted to use materials (wood, brass, iron) at their best, i.e. keeping their natural color. As Robert Dumas and Luc Féron both pointed years ago, these models should be considered with caution. Another famous example is the model of large submarine Surcouf, a very fine reproduction... which is painted green... The real sub never wore this color.

Since 1997 I've been actively following the reconstruction of the 18th century frigate Hermione in the Rochefort harbor and got surprised to learn research showed that during 18th and 19th centuries wooden ships were almost entirely painted to protect the wood.
The Musée de la Marine sells a plan to build a reproduction of their model of the Gloire (same period, same designer, same yard as Solferino) which gives the colors of the real ship, among them the inside of hull sides above the deck to be painted white, although the (period) model shows natural wood color.
The Gloire plan points out the differences between the real ship and the model (for ex. bare polished steel on the model's armored belt vs black painted belt on the real ship), so I decided to follow the real one and applied these rules to the Solferino (same period, same...).

Again in this old case, neither the "as designed" plan I started from nor the Museum model accurately depicts the real ship, so I had to make choices as we didn't have decent photo coverage, except a distant starboard broadside view of Solferino. Some engravings also which are all highly questionable and that's all.
Oh yes, the single photograph clearly show the after bridge was missing, although designed on the plan. I can't say if it has been removed later in the ship's career or never fitted, so I decided to build my Solferino with the bridge and Magenta without it...
_Bruno

PS: I'll start the 1:350 one later this year... must finish the smaller one before.

[quote="wefalck"]One question actually: the inside of the armoured conning tower looks rather different from the one in the model. There it has a slightly domed iron deck with rails around. You also painted the deck inside white - I would have assumed a wooden deck there; at least HMS WARRIOR was fitted like this, if I remember correctly.
Did you get the pictures of the model in Paris I emailed to you last week ? I hope they didn't block your mail box.
wefalck[/quote]

Hello,
Yes I got your pictures which will help me on smaller details.
The armored tower isn't yet finished. I'll add a surrounding platform and that kind of deck above.

About the colors: the models in the Musée de la Marine (at last those before 1900) are former exhibition models which were made when the ship was about to enter service and aimed at the Etat-major or other high ranking levels. They are true works of Art and their makers wanted to use materials (wood, brass, iron) at their best, i.e. keeping their natural color. As Robert Dumas and Luc Féron both pointed years ago, these models should be considered with caution. Another famous example is the model of large submarine Surcouf, a very fine reproduction... which is painted green... The real sub never wore this color.

Since 1997 I've been actively following the reconstruction of the 18th century frigate Hermione in the Rochefort harbor and got surprised to learn research showed that during 18th and 19th centuries wooden ships were almost entirely painted to protect the wood.
The Musée de la Marine sells a plan to build a reproduction of their model of the Gloire (same period, same designer, same yard as Solferino) which gives the colors of the [u]real [/u]ship, among them the inside of hull sides above the deck to be painted white, although the (period) model shows natural wood color.
The Gloire plan points out the differences between the real ship and the model (for ex. bare polished steel on the model's armored belt vs black painted belt on the real ship), so I decided to follow the real one and applied these rules to the Solferino (same period, same...).

Again in this old case, neither the "as designed" plan I started from nor the Museum model accurately depicts the real ship, so I had to make choices as we didn't have decent photo coverage, except a distant starboard broadside view of Solferino. Some engravings also which are all highly questionable and that's all.
Oh yes, the single photograph clearly show the after bridge was missing, although designed on the plan. I can't say if it has been removed later in the ship's career or never fitted, so I decided to build my Solferino with the bridge and Magenta without it...
_Bruno

PS: I'll start the 1:350 one later this year... must finish the smaller one before.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:21 am

wefalck

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Bruno, coming on nicely !

I gather this is the 1/700 version ? What about the larger one ?

One question actually: the inside of the armoured conning tower looks rather different from the one in the model. There it has a slightly domed iron deck with rails around. You also painted the deck inside white - I would have assumed a wooden deck there; at least HMS WARRIOR was fitted like this, if I remember correctly.

Did you get the pictures of the model in Paris I emailed to you last week ? I hope they didn't block your mail box.

wefalck

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:26 pm

JIM BAUMANN

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Tres tres tres bien!! :thumbs_up_1:

This will be a delight!

JB

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:34 pm

Nieuport

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Hi Bruno,

Impressive job :thumbs_up_1:

Congratulation :worship_1:

Eric

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:07 pm

bgire

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Hi all

At Neal's request I decided to post some of the early steps of my building for both Solferino and sistership Magenta.

I wanted to show how I did my master.
I used a CNC machine to cut hull section filling blocks from construction board, then I sandwiched them between photo etched sections (the same as Neal's):

The hull is made flush with some putty and a little sanding:

Preparing the armor belt: the stainless alloy is annealed to bring it ductile and easy to shape

Access spaces below hatches are prepared with Evergreen below the deck:

Deck is glued. More shaping on the bow:

Side planking: five #11 blades are glued together and used to scribe the planking fore and aft of the armor belt

And the master is ready:

After casting, my "fleet" is ready for next step:

Painting:

Now it's time to fit the wooden deck sticker I wanted for these pretty ships.
I used generic 1:700 scale planking from Atwork which is excellent.
I designed a photo etched template to accurately cut the deck.
The wood sticker is accurately placed with the template above, secured with tape.
The deck is cut with a new blade. Holes are drilled with corresponding diameters.

Fitting the self adhesive deck to kit:

Magenta and Solferino are now waiting for next step...

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:48 am

callen

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Thank you all for your input regarding the bellows and forge! :thumbs_up_1:

That's just one reason why it's so fun to blog one's builds online. I will be incorporating all of this info into my build. I just wish I had a clearer idea of the exact shape of those fittings...

But I'll do my best.

BTW I didn't finish uploading all of the current work on the Solferino, so there's more coming when I get a chance this weekend.
Cheers!

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:55 pm

wefalck

Post subject:

Re: SOLFERINO 1861: French Ironclad in 350th and 700th

Oops, yes you are right. Thanks for pointing it out. Corrected this also on my own Web-site :roll_eyes:

wefalck

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:37 am

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