The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:37 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post a reply
Username:
Subject:
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 60000 characters. 

Options:
BBCode is OFF
Smilies are OFF
Do not automatically parse URLs
Question
type everything in between the quote marks: "N0$pam" Note the Zero:
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
   

Topic review - China's Type 055 missile cruisers ( Renhai class )
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
Can one now say this is China's answer to the Ticonderoga class AEGIS cruisers?

Forbes

Quote:
Chinese Navy May Be First To Get Ballistic Missiles
H I SuttonContributor
Aerospace & Defense
I cover the changing world of underwater warfare.

A Department of Defense report suggests that the Chinese Navy, formally known as the PLAN (People’s Liberation Army Navy), may put anti-ship ballistic missiles (ASBMs) on its new cruisers. These are the weapons dubbed ‘Aircraft Carrier Killers’ because of their massive hitting power. It would be the first time any navy has put this category of weapon on a warship. Chinese Navy cruisers would then be arguably the most heavily armed surface combatants in the world.
H I SUTTON
The 2020 China Military Power Report to Congress says that the new Type-055 Renhai Class cruiser “will likely be able to launch ASBMs and LACMs once these weapons are available”. LACMs refers to land-attack cruise missiles. The report comes in both classified and unclassified forms. In the unclassified version we are not presented with the evidence behind the assertion. But it would be a logical development, and would set Chinese warships apart from all others in the world.
The first Renhai Class cruiser was only commissioned in January of this year. But already the 8th ship has been launched on August 30.
(...SNIPPED)
Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:43 am
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
According to Wikipedia the displacement is between 12,000 - 14,000 t (fully loaded).

All Washington type heavy cruisers displaced more than 10,000 t, because 10,000 t was the standard displacement, not the fully loaded one.

One of the smallest, the Pensacola class, displaced 11,697 t, Wichita was 13,224 t, the British County class was in average 14,150 tons...
Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:31 am
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
The mystery "Renhai" class made an appearance....at the parade mentioned in this other thread. As stated before, this is even larger than the size of a 1930s to WW2-era heavy cruiser!!!!

Asia Pacific Defense Journal

Quote:
China officially displays first new Type 055 large destroyer during 70th Anniversary review
April 26, 2019


China's People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) showcased their first new Type 055 Renhai-class large guided missile destroyer / cruiser, as part of a fleet review held to commemorate the PLAN's 70th founding anniversary.

The ship, called Nanchang (101), is the first ship of its class, is still undergoing sea trials and is expected to become the largest surface combatant of the PLAN that is not an aircraft carrier, and its premier escort ship class for future carrier battle groups. The class is considered as a guided missile cruiser by the US Department of Defense.

The Type 055 Renhai-class, including the Nanchang, are around 180 meters long, around 20 meters wide, a draft of around 6.6 meters, and has an estimated displacement of around 13,000 tons - heavier than the US Navy's Ticonderoga-class cruisers.
The ship is powered by four (4) QC-280 gas turbine engines in Combined Gas and Gas (COGAG) configuration, allowing the ship to a sprint to a maximum speed of 30 knots.

(...SNIPPED)
Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:25 am
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
Seawaves

Quote:
China launches guided missile destroyers
July 3, 2018 seawaves

China launched two Type 055 guided-missile destroyers on Tuesday morning, according to witnesses outside a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province.

Chinese naval enthusiasts published pictures taken near Dalian Shipbuilding Industry and accounts of the launch on online military forums.
Water started to be pumped into the dry docks where the next-generation destroyers were built around 7 am before the docks’ gates were opened, witnesses said.

Pictures showed a small launch ceremony at the shipyard, with hundreds of workers standing in formation in front of the two destroyers, each decorated with a huge national flag, ceremonial banners and colorful streamers

(...SNIPPED)
Post Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:44 pm
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
Diplomat

All You Need to Know About China's New Stealth Destroyer

Addressing misconceptions about China’s latest surface combatant, the Type 055 guided-missile destroyer.

By Rick Joe
June 08, 2018

Quote:
(...SNIPPED)Design

The Type 055 adopts a conventional flared hull with distinctive stealthy features including an enclosed bow, where mooring points, anchor chains and other equipment are hidden belowdecks. The bow armament adopts a similar configuration to the 052C/D, with the main gun located most anterior, followed by a 64 cell block of VLS, and the eleven barrel H/PJ-11 30mm close in weapons system (CIWS).

The main deckhouse is similar to the proven configuration that the preceding 052D adopts, with fixed four face phased array radars (PARs) arranged for overlapping 360 degree coverage. However, the mast atop the deckhouse is a more advanced integrated mast, with sensors and datalinks integrated into a single structure.

Similarly, the amidships area and the smoke stack is a continuous single structure extending from the main deckhouse. A continuous integrated structure not only provides additional volume for various uses (such as amidships RHIB davits), but also reduces deck clutter and the ship’s associated radar cross section. The single integrated smoke stack is notable, as it appears to shield the exhausts from the ship’s gas turbines to a greater degree, likely to reduce infrared signatures and radar cross section.

Moving posteriorly, there is a 48 cell block of VLS, leading to the aft helicopter hangar structure featuring two helicopter hangars. A step structure atop this hangar was once suspected to possibly accommodate a volume search radar, but instead will likely be equipped with a small dome or other electronics. A 24 cell HHQ-10 missile CIWS and four decoy turrets are equipped atop the hangar. A large stern helipad, greater in size than that on the 052C/D destroyers, accommodates the ship’s organic helicopter complement.

There have been some reports that the Type 055 may involve aluminium in its construction, however at this stage there are no credible indicators for this suggestion.

(...SNIPPED)


Quote:
(...SNIPPED)

Total production run

A total of six Type 055s have been visually identified up to this point. Two Type 055s have been launched and are being fitting out at Jiangnan (the first likely to start sea trials later this year), with modules for another Type 055 identified at Jiangnan as well. Two Type055s in late stages of assembly at Dalian will likely be launched later this year, and modules for another Type 055 have been identified at Dalian.

Credible rumors over the years have put the first batch of 055s at greater than 8 ships, so in the foreseeable future it is likely that we will see additional 055 modules at both Jiangnan and Dalian.

We have no indications for the total number of Type 055s the Chinese Navy may seek, but some rumors have suggested the South Sea Fleet’s 9th Destroyer Flotilla may receive the first four Type 055s, followed by the North Sea Fleet’s 1st Destroyer Flotilla. Based on this pattern, it may suggest that the Navy either intends to equip one Destroyer Flotilla of each of their three fleets with four Type 055s, which would indicate a 12 strong Type 055 fleet. However, the Navy may also intend each of the Navy’s six Destroyer Flotillas to be equipped with four Type 055s, which would indicate a 24 strong Type 055 fleet.
Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:03 pm
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
Already, they've launched the 2nd in the class:

China launches second Type 055 destroyer

Janes - 30 April 2018

Quote:
Photographs posted on Chinese online forums indicate that a second Type 055 destroyer on order for the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) was launched on 28 April at the Jiangnan Changxingdao shipyard in Shanghai.


Image
Recently published images indicate that China launched its second Type 055 destroyer on 28 April at the Jiangnan Changxingdao shipyard in Shanghai. (Via haohanfw.com)
Post Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:47 pm
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
Why not? For sure "frigate" and "cruiser" are more fitting, because that is for sure not a "torpedoboat destroyer" :D There are no logical rules to distinguish different blue water surface warships (frigates to cruisers). It makes more sense to consider them variants of one single type of warships - similar to the massive size differences of the different cruiser types in 1900. Around 1900 there were cruisers with 1300 t (small protected cruisers and torpedo cruisers, but there were also 14000 t protected cruisers) displacement and 14000 t displacement (some armoured cruisers, but there were also much smaller armoured cruisers below 5000 t).

There is a 1/700 3D model:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/TW72FNVJC/type-055-quot-renhai-quot?optionId=63536498

But as far as I know there is no kit yet. But Dutch Fleet Naval Miniatures makes good 3D designs and FUD printed models are good (WSF are still very problematic because of the surface quality).
Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
At 10,000 tons, would you really call this a destroyer?

Sea Waves

Quote:
Zhou Xin, First Type 055 DDG, Fitting Out
January 5, 2018 seawaves

The first Type 055 destroyer is being outfitted at Jiangnan Shipyard (Group) in Shanghai.

Workers are installing conduits and cables in the 10,000-tonne vessel, Zhou Xin, a military representative stationed in the shipyard to oversee the building of the warship, was quoted by the People’s Liberation Army Daily as saying.

“Putting the ship in the water is nothing more than building a roughcast house, while outfitting the vessel is like decorating the house,” Zhou said in the PLA Daily report published Friday.

The destroyer entered the water in late June 2017, marking a milestone in improving the nation’s navy armament system and building a strong and modern navy.

(...SNIPPED)
Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:54 pm
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
You are right: the chaos started with the Royal Navy reusing the term "frigate" and "corvette" for very small and slow escort ships instead of large cruiser-type ships. The USN use of the 1950s was still fine - their frigates were larger cruiser-type ships, which replaced the light cruisers, which had become to large and expensive - and most of the USN frigates were re-classified in 1975 as cruisers (except of the Mitscher and Farragut class).

Another reason for this chaos could be the Washington and London treaties, which caused the cruisers to develop into large, expensive ships build during the "battleship holiday".
Post Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:29 pm
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
One can thank the British for the misuse of the term "frigate" since the sailing frigates were large warships. The USN use of the term was more correct but still not exactly correct. In 1975, the USN change its classifications to conform with what the rest of NATO were using.
Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
Thank you for the link! For sure it would be also possible to call all these ships "cruisers", which would also fit much better than e.g. the term "destroyer" (who needs a "torpedo boat destroyer" today!?). "Frigates" and "cruisers" have a common past, because frigates were the common type of cruising warships (between c. 1750s to the 1850s) and even before fast warships used for cruiser-type purposes were called often frigate. Also the US Navy called their first generation of bigger guided missile ships used for cruiser-type tasks "frigates" (but classified them as DLG), as did the French.
Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:51 am
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
Maxim,

Someone else with the same lament:

https://warshipphilosophy.wordpress.com ... p-classes/
Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:24 pm
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
Sure, but I am talking about something different: in most periods of naval history a type of ship could be easily defined INDEPENDENT of the classification of a certain navy, because of typical characteristics, which defined that type. For everyone familiar with the subject it was obvious what e.g. a cruiser is and what not. That is in general also still true today for most ships, e.g. it is obvious that the Izumo class ships are helicopter carriers. There is no dependence on treaties, as there was no dependence on treaties for that to identify a ship type e.g. in 1900.

The problem today are the typical surface warships, classified as frigates, destroyers and cruisers - there is no simple way to distinguish them. For sure they can be distinguished from other types of ships with very few difficult cases (e.g. Russian Kirov class or the difference to some corvettes). E.g. Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships 1947-1995 calls all these ships of the USN "escort", because the classifications of the USN makes no sense (e.g. Farragut class vs. Leahy class - different classification after 1975, but the same line of development). It makes actually also much more sense to consider these ships to be one type of ship with certain subtypes, e.g. ships optimised for anti-submarine warfare or air-defence. But there is no generally accepted name for that category, probably because still the old type of classifications are used. I prefer the way some European navies are calling these ships: "frigate". E.g. the French, German and Italian call all these ships "frigates", even if some are classified as "destroyers" (having "D" numbers).
Post Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:06 am
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
The only way to get uniform definitions is by international treaty or convention. Lacking that, each navy is free to classify the ships any way it wants.

How each navy classifies its warships is primarily based on political and cultural factors.

For example: Since Japan is only allowed to have a "defensive" military, and destroyers are considered defensive (why, I don't know), the JMSDF will have only "destroyers" of various types. This is also known as "polite fiction."
Post Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
@ DougC: I would not ask for a treaty, only a definition. I think that for most ships in 1930 it was possible to define what is a cruiser and what is not. There were some ships, which were not easy to classify, e.g. the Deutschland class or the French "contre-torpilleur" (which translates into destroyer, but these ships were actually in between cruisers and destroyers, the real French destroyers were classified as "torpilleurs"). Also in 1900 it was possible to define for most ships, what was a cruiser and what was not a cruiser. For sure, again there were some difficult ships, e.g. at the border between cruiser and gunboat (e.g. some Danish and Norwegian ships), but in general it worked.

But today? There is no pattern, which can be applied to at least two major navies and it would give clear results. There is no clear qualitative difference between ships classified as frigates, destroyers and cruisers (e.g. German Sachsen class, British Daring class, and US Ticonderoga class). There are some quantitative differences, but they are not working, if some other classes are also considered, e.g. the South Korean Sejongdaewang class. The classifications used by the navies are random, they only consider political goals (should it appear cheap or impressive?) and administrative purposes (e.g. payment of the commander), but are not comparable at all between different navies including closely allied navies.

@ tomorrow:
The Izumo class is easy: that is a helicopter carrier classified as DDH by JMSDF. But everyone knows that it is a helicopter carrier (in contrast to the Shirane class they replaced, which were also classified as DDH; they had frigate/destroyer/cruiser capabilities and a especially large hangar; for them it was hard to say what they are, e.g. the similar Italian Andrea Doria class was classified as cruisers).
Post Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
maxim wrote:
You can argue that the difference is the flagship function, because all other differences are specific for a comparison between to classes and do not fit to others.

But how many ships classified as destroyer can serve as flagship?

E.g. Type 45...

The size difference between the Ticonderoga and Arleigh Burke class is not worth mentioning.

Ticonderoga class: 9800 t

Arleigh Burke class Flight I: 8315 t
Arleigh Burke class Flight II: 8400 t
Arleigh Burke class Flight IIA: 9200 t (!)
Arleigh Burke class Flight III: 9800 t (!!)

Atago class: > 10000 t
Kongo class: 9500 t
Sejongdaewang class: 11000 t

Type 055: 10000 t




Don`t forget the 22DDH class: 19500 t (full 27000 t) :rolf_3: :rolf_3: :rolf_3:
Post Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:25 am
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
[quote="maxim"]It will continue, because there is no clear definition what a cruiser and what a destroyer is ;)[/quote]

The last international treaty to define cruisers and destroyers was the London Treaty of 1930.
Post Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:22 pm
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
This article is wrong. Japan's Atago/Kongo class AEGIS destroyers and South Korea's Sejong the Great class AEGIS destroyers are arguably the most advanced warships in (East) Asia.

South China Morning Post

Quote:
Asia’s biggest, most advanced warship finally launches as China strengthens naval presence

The type 055 destroyer is similar in size to the US Navy’s Arleigh Burke class ships and is billed as a major step forward for Chinese sea power
PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 28 June, 2017, 1:29pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 28 June, 2017, 6:45pm

China launched what it calls the most advanced and largest warship in Asia on Wednesday, billing it as a major step forward in the modernisation of its navy, the official military newspaper said.

The first of the new type 055 guided-missile destroyers, which has a displacement of more than 10,000 tons and was built at the Jiangnan shipyard in Shanghai, is equipped with air defence, anti-missile, anti-ship and anti-submarine weapons, the PLA Daily reported.

(...SNIPPED)
Post Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:16 am
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
It will continue, because there is no clear definition what a cruiser and what a destroyer is ;)
Post Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:07 am
  Post subject:  Re: China's Type 055 missile cruiser project  Reply with quote
The "cruiser-destroyer" confusion over the Type 055 continues.

Defence Aerospace

Quote:
China's Type 055 Destroyer as Good as US Zumwalt-Class Destroyer?
(Source: China Military; issued Feb 24, 2017)
BEIJING --- An American media recently published an article saying that the new Type 055 guided-missile cruiser China is developing now is as good as America's Zumwalt-class stealth guided-missile destroyer with sci-fi appearance. This comment drew attention from various sides immediately.

Public information shows that Type 055 destroyer is a new-generation 10,000-ton-class destroyer currently being developed by the PLA Navy, which features large displacement, high speed, great cruising ability, long endurance and sound global seaworthiness.

Li Jie, researcher with the PLA Naval Military Academic Research Institute, expressed that information from various sides shows that the Type 055 guided-missile destroyer boasts outstanding overall performance and represents the highest level of Chinese surface vessels today.

(...SNIPPED)
Post Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:53 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group