The Ship Model Forum

Hypersonics on the Zumwalts??

[url=https://news.usni.org/2022/03/16/latest-zumwalt-hypersonic-missile-installation-plan-calls-for-removing-gun-mounts?fbclid=IwAR0tHD3uU9Riwl88ky5jSmcDrS3FA3ZqOdPy5LyZK6b7BBDn-5SIWJKsFpk]US Naval Institute[/url]

[quote][b][size=200]Latest Zumwalt Hypersonic Missile Installation Plan Calls For Removing Gun Mounts[/size][/b]
By: Sam LaGrone
March 16, 2022 7:05 PM

The most recent plan for adding hypersonic weapons to the Zumwalt-class guided-missile will involve removing the two massive 155 mm Advanced Gun Systems aboard the trio of destroyers, the Zumwalt program manager told USNI News on Wednesday.

In October of next year, USS Zumwalt (DDG-1000) is expected to enter a maintenance availability that will include the removal of the two AGS from the 16,000-ton destroyer and the support systems for the guns and ammunition the destroyers were built around.

“We are removing the guns, the upper and lower gun rooms. That includes the loading system, the transfer carts, the ammo, etc.,” Capt. Matthew Schroeder, DDG 1000 program manager, Program Executive (PEO) Ships told USNI News in a Wednesday interview. “[We’re] going down about five platforms to accommodate the height of the missile, which is significantly larger than other missiles in the inventory.”

When the availability is complete in 2025, Zumwalt will be armed with the Common Hypersonic Glide Body (C-HGB) — developed for the Army, Air Force and the Navy – according to the Navy’s plan. The conventional prompt strike (CPS) concept extends a long-range strike capability for the U.S.

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[url=https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/01/13/last-of-new-class-of-navy-warships-departs-shipyard.html]Military.com[/url]

[quote][b][size=200]Last of New Class of Navy Warships Departs Shipyard[/size][/b]

Associated Press
BATH, Maine — The last of a new class of warships departed a Maine shipyard Wednesday.

The USS Lyndon B. Johnson was constructed at Bath Iron Works and is the last in a class of three ships the U.S. Navy has described as the largest and most technologically sophisticated destroyers in its history.

The ship previously left for sea trials in late August. That was the first time it made it to the Atlantic Ocean.

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How very ironic, that the G was added to differentiate those new-fangled [b]g[/b]uided missile carrying ships from the old gun-armed vessels, and now removing the gun and replacing it with a missile is regarded as converting a ship [i]to[/i] "conventional."

- Sean F.

[url=https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/03/25/what-should-become-of-the-zumwalt-class-the-us-navy-has-some-big-ideas/]Defense News[/url]

[quote]
[b][size=200] What should become of the Zumwalt class? The US Navy has some big ideas.[/size][/b]
WASHINGTON – The U.S. Navy is exploring a major ship alteration for its three stealth destroyers that would further drive up the cost of the platform but could deliver a radical new hypersonic capability in the ongoing naval competition with China in the Western Pacific
In a solicitation posted March 18, the Navy asked industry for ideas on how to reconfigure the Zumwalt class to host larger hypersonic missiles of a size that would not fit in the vertical launch system tubes currently installed on the ships. The service also wants that business to provide the missiles and supporting software and technology to support the missiles.
Specifically, the Navy is looking for ideas about installing an “advanced payload module” that can support the Navy’s conventional prompt strike missiles “in a three-pack configuration,” according to the notice.
[b][u] Two sources familiar with discussions around the future of the Zumwalt class said it would be possible to replace the idle Advanced Gun System – the original raison d’être of the class designed to support Marine landings with gunfire support from well over the horizon – with the desired payload module supporting hypersonic missiles. [/u][/b]Experts said that doing so would transform the DDG-1000s from ships in search of a mission into powerful conventional deterrent in the Indo-Pacific region.

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[url=https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/03/08/the-stealth-destroyer-zumwalt-sails-through-rough-seas-testing/]Defense News[/url]

[quote][b]
[size=200] The stealth destroyer Zumwalt sails through rough seas testing[/size][/b]
By: David B. Larter   2 hours ago
WASHINGTON – The stealth destroyer Zumwalt aced its rough seas testing, leaders from Naval Sea Systems Command said in a recent release.
Engineers from the Naval Surface Warfare Centers Carderock Division and Philadelphia Division carried out tests late last year on Zumwalt as part of the ship’s Performance and Special Trials, which are conducted on the lead ship of every class to test how the ship behaves in various sea conditions.
[b][u] The ship held its own through the high end of Sea State 6, which means 20-foot seas, according to a Naval Sea Systems Command press release, with ship and crew performing at acceptable levels according to the parameters of the test.
“There were no exceedances of critical motion criteria limits,” the release read.[/u][/b]
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[url=https://www.mintfo.com/news-sourced/us-navys-stealth-destroyer-successfully-completes-first-standard-missile-shot/22911/]MINTFO[/url]

[quote]
October 20, 2020
[b][size=200] US Navy’s stealth destroyer successfully completes first Standard Missile shot[/size][/b]
News Sourced

Mintfo

United States Navy’s USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000) successfully executed the first live fire test of the MK 57 Vertical Launching System with a Standard Missile (SM-2) on the Naval Air Weapons Center Weapons Division Sea Test Range, Point Mugu, Oct. 13.


As the first-in-class ship, USS Zumwalt successfully demonstrated its capability to detect, track and engage an anti-ship cruise missile threat with an SM-2. The structural test fire assessed the material readiness of the ship against shock and vibration of the weapon firing, as well as measure any hazards or degradations as a result of firing live ordnance.
“Today’s successful test not only demonstrates the ship’s capability to fire missiles and conduct self-defense, it is also a significant step toward more advanced combat system testing and operations for our Navy’s most technically innovative warship,” said Capt. Matt Schroeder, DDG 1000 program manager. “The USS Zumwalt crew and Surface Development Squadron One are working hand-in-hand with the acquisition community to advance this ship’s operational capability.”
The ships’ stealth and ability to operate in both the open-ocean and near-shore environments creates a new level of battlespace complexity for potential adversaries. The Zumwalt class will also operate as a key enabler in the acceleration of new warfighting capabilities and rapid development and validation of operational tactics, techniques, and procedures.

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Ah, they will fix the radar!

They had got only half of the design radar with the SPY-3 antennas, but lacked the long range SPY-4. Now, they will probably get a working pair.

[url=https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37082/navys-troubled-stealth-destroyers-may-have-radars-replaced-before-ever-sailing-on-a-mission?fbclid=IwAR2_YHibptSa2en9r6DLkQ7q0i71er0kXBThoGM9GUFL1ink1Snkh35nlt4]The Drive[/url]


[quote] [b][size=200]Navy's Troubled Stealth Destroyers May Have Radars Replaced Before Ever Sailing On A Mission[/size][/b]
A cost-cutting effort years ago left the DDG-1000 destroyers with degraded capabilities and a one-off combat system, but that could be changing.
ByJoseph Trevithick and Tyler Rogoway
October 15, 2020
The U.S. Navy is in the process of exploring options to replace Raytheon's AN/SPY-3 radar on its three still not yet operational Zumwalt class destroyers. The only option we know definitively to be under consideration is a variant of the Enterprise Air Surveillance Radar, or EASR, but the Navy has indicated that there are others. EASR is another Raytheon product that is already slated to go onto a number of the service's new ships, including all future Ford class aircraft carriers from CVN-79 on and the forthcoming Constellation class frigates, previously known as FFG(X). Combined with the stealthy destroyers' other advanced and largely unique combat systems, a new, more powerful radar could significantly expand their capabilities, which were grossly watered-down years ago as part of cost-cutting efforts.
A spokesperson for Naval Sea Systems Command confirmed to The War Zone that "the Navy is exploring several alternatives to sustain air and surface search capability aboard the Zumwalt class ships" on Oct. 15, 2020. That same statement said that "no decision has been made at this time" as to how the service will necessarily proceed. The first-in-class USS Zumwalt has already received its combat systems, but the second and third ships in the class, the USS Michael Monsoor and the future USS Lyndon B. Johnson are in the process of being fitted out. As such, all three could need to have their existing removed in order to recieve new ones.
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[/quote]

If you assume that a gun is today that important today... In reality, these guns are only relevant for some specific missions (the ship is not expected to fulfill), it is a secondary part of the armament.

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Just spin to avoid the USN's embarrassment.

Until they pull out those turrets and replace them with something that works the ships are NOT "combat ready".

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[quote="pgollin"].

The MUCH REDUCED main armament nowadays may well be the VLS Mk 57 launchers, but how will they prove that the combat system can control the 5-inch guns out to maximum range ?

Don't buy into the spin.

.[/quote]
Why would they need to when they no longer plan on buying ammunition for those 155mm guns? They're effectively no longer part of the ship's combat suite, so controlling them is irrelevant.

The main armament was always missiles in the VLS launchers. Guns are always only secondary armament, their range is too limited, even those with extended range using rocket-driven ammunition. The Zumwalt class has no 5 inch-guns. For 5 in guns, Vulcano ammunition with extended range would be available (from an Italian producer) - in contrast to the 155 mm guns of the Zumwalt class .

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The MUCH REDUCED main armament nowadays may well be the VLS Mk 57 launchers, but how will they prove that the combat system can control the 5-inch guns out to maximum range ?

Don't buy into the spin.

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The combat system is software - and the main armament is in the VLS Mk 57 launchers.

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How will the "combat system" be "completed and delivered within days" without any main armament ammunition ?

I presume they didn't want to write that [i]"a MUCH REDUCED combat system will be completed and delivered within days".[/i]

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I had not been aware that they had no working combat system installed.

Sighhh...


[url=https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/03/27/nearly-4-years-after-commissioning-the-us-navy-is-about-to-get-a-fully-working-stealth-destroyer/]Defense News[/url]


[quote] [b][size=200]Nearly 4 years after commissioning, the US Navy is about to get a fully working stealth destroyer[/size][/b]
By: David B. Larter   39 minutes ago
WASHINGTON — The U.S. Navy’s first stealth destroyer, the Zumwalt, is on track to have its combat system installation completed and delivered within days, a source with knowledge of the program told Defense News.
It’s the end of a long journey for the ship that was commissioned in 2016 without a working combat system but is finally preparing to fully enter service.[b][u] The ship was slated to have its installation completed in March, and the service is still on track to deliver on time, the source said.
In November 2016, BAE Systems was awarded a $192 million contract to deliver the combat system for Zumwalt and its sister ship the Michael Monsoor.[/u][/b]
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Interesting: that indicates that new hull forms make sense!

Looks like doubts regarding the Zumwalt's seakeeping have been put to rest - a new interview released today with the ship's captain talks about the ships' handling during, amongst other things, Sea State 6 off Alaska: https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/01/23/heres-how-the-ddg-1000s-stealthy-hull-design-handles-stormy-seas/

[url=https://navaltoday.com/2019/04/25/us-navy-christening-final-zumwalt-class-destroyer-in-maine/?fbclid=IwAR3GnKom9aME-0vAruHrwW9G5CTHtsukaPCc55l2_TLbQFXxgew_nuv2238]Naval Today[/url]


[quote][b][size=200] US Navy christening final Zumwalt-class destroyer in Maine[/size][/b]
The US Navy is to christen its third and final Zumwalt-class guided missile destroyer, the future USS Lyndon B. Johnson (DDG 1002), in a ceremony at the General Dynamics-Bath Iron Works shipyard in Bath, Maine.
[b] The ceremony is set for Saturday, April 27.[/b]
DDG 1002 is named in honor of US president Lyndon B. Johnson, who served in office from 1963-1969, and will be the first ship to bear his name.
Lynda Johnson Robb and Luci Johnson, the two daughters of the former president, will serve as the ship’s sponsors.
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