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Re: Ship that blocked Suez now held captive by Egypt (update |
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I suppose it all depends if the canal's pilots were at all at fault?
I suppose it all depends if the canal's pilots were at all at fault?
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:18 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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The Indian crew of the M/V Ever Green just can't catch a break: Car and Driver magazine /MSNQuote: More Trouble for Evergreen Suez Canal Ship, Now Being Held Captive Sebastian Blanco 3 hrs ago
The world cheered when the meme-worthy Evergreen cargo vessel called the Ever Given was freed from the sides of the Suez Canal, but the ship still hasn't left the waters there. That's because Egyptian authorities, which control the canal, are investigating what happened and have said they will only let the boat go on its way after the ship's owners pay them $1 billion. There are 25 Indian crew members on board, and the National Union of Seafarers of India has issued a statement saying they should not be held hostage. It appears the workers are being treated well.
The fate of the now-famous Ever Given cargo vessel continues to be newsworthy. While the 1300-foot-long container ship has been freed from its sideways grounding in the Suez Canal, it remains in the canal. The reason, you ask? Egyptian authorities say they want the ship's owners to pay a king's ransom to compensate for the week that the canal was shut down.
Osama Rabie, chairman of the Suez Canal Authority (SCA), said on Egyptian state television this week that the country will hold onto the ship while it investigates what happened and until the ship's owner pay $1 billion. The SCA estimates the losses from the week, ending March 29, that the Ever Given was stuck and blocking other traffic through the canal at $95 million in lost transit fees, and there are also the costs to free the ship and other expenses to reimburse. The Ever Given currently remains inside the Suez Canal, in a wider area called the Great Bitter Lake. "The vessel will remain here until investigations are complete and compensation is paid," he said, according to the Wall Street Journal."The minute they agree to compensation, the vessel will be allowed to move." That's a fairly straightforward description of a complicated issue. On board are 25 Indian crew members, and the National Union of Seafarers of India issued a statement that said the SCA and the boat's owners are allowed to investigate, but that these discussions should not create a piracy-like situation.
(...SNIPPED)
The Indian crew of the M/V [i]Ever Green[/i] just can't catch a break: :shock:
[url=https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/more-trouble-for-evergreen-suez-canal-ship-now-being-held-captive/ar-BB1fxvMy?li=AAggFp5]Car and Driver magazine /MSN[/url]
[quote] [b][size=200] More Trouble for Evergreen Suez Canal Ship, Now Being Held Captive[/size][/b] Sebastian Blanco 3 hrs ago
The world cheered when the meme-worthy Evergreen cargo vessel called the Ever Given was freed from the sides of the Suez Canal, but the ship still hasn't left the waters there. [b][u] That's because Egyptian authorities, which control the canal, are investigating what happened and have said they will only let the boat go on its way after the ship's owners pay them $1 billion.[/u][/b] There are 25 Indian crew members on board, and the National Union of Seafarers of India has issued a statement saying they should not be held hostage. It appears the workers are being treated well.
The fate of the now-famous Ever Given cargo vessel continues to be newsworthy. While the 1300-foot-long container ship has been freed from its sideways grounding in the Suez Canal, it remains in the canal. The reason, you ask? Egyptian authorities say they want the ship's owners to pay a king's ransom to compensate for the week that the canal was shut down.
Osama Rabie, chairman of the Suez Canal Authority (SCA), said on Egyptian state television this week that the country will hold onto the ship while it investigates what happened and until the ship's owner pay $1 billion. The SCA estimates the losses from the week, ending March 29, that the Ever Given was stuck and blocking other traffic through the canal at $95 million in lost transit fees, and there are also the costs to free the ship and other expenses to reimburse. The Ever Given currently remains inside the Suez Canal, in a wider area called the Great Bitter Lake. "The vessel will remain here until investigations are complete and compensation is paid," he said, according to the Wall Street Journal."The minute they agree to compensation, the vessel will be allowed to move." That's a fairly straightforward description of a complicated issue. On board are 25 Indian crew members, and the National Union of Seafarers of India issued a statement that said the SCA and the boat's owners are allowed to investigate, but that these discussions should not create a piracy-like situation.
(...SNIPPED)[/quote]
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:48 pm |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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What REALLY happened:
What REALLY happened:
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:50 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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The M/V Ever Given grounding was just the tip of the iceberg when revealing how vulnerable our SLOCs/maritime supply routes are to all kinds of disruptions. Business InsiderQuote: The US has its own supply-chain crisis brewing as dozens of cargo ships remain stuck off the coast of LA as they wait to dock gkay@businessinsider.com (Grace Kay) 16 hrs ago © Associated Press Associated Press 28 ships were anchored off the coast of Los Angeles and Long Beach waiting to dock on Thursday. The California ports are congested and account for about one third of US imports. The port delays pile on a host of supply-chain issues. See more stories on Insider's business page. While the Suez Canal jam may have captured public attention before the cargo ship Ever Given was freed, the US is quietly facing its own supply-chain crisis as dozens of freighters float off the coast of Los Angeles, waiting for dock space to open up. California ports in Los Angeles and Long Beach account for about one third of US imports. These ports operate as a primary source of imports from China and have been heavily congested for months. On Thursday, 28 ships were anchored off the coast waiting for a spot to open up to unload at Los Angeles and Long Beach ports, according to data from the Marine Exchange of Southern California. (...SNIPPED)
The [i]M/V Ever Given[/i] grounding was just the tip of the iceberg when revealing how vulnerable our SLOCs/maritime supply routes are to all kinds of disruptions.
[url=https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/news/the-us-has-its-own-supply-chain-crisis-brewing-as-dozens-of-cargo-ships-remain-stuck-off-the-coast-of-la-as-they-wait-to-dock/ar-BB1fi9LY?li=AAggFp5]Business Insider[/url]
[quote] [b][size=200] The US has its own supply-chain crisis brewing as dozens of cargo ships remain stuck off the coast of LA as they wait to dock[/size][/b] gkay@businessinsider.com (Grace Kay) 16 hrs ago
© Associated Press Associated Press
28 ships were anchored off the coast of Los Angeles and Long Beach waiting to dock on Thursday. The California ports are congested and account for about one third of US imports. The port delays pile on a host of supply-chain issues. See more stories on Insider's business page.
While the Suez Canal jam may have captured public attention before the cargo ship Ever Given was freed, the US is quietly facing its own supply-chain crisis as dozens of freighters float off the coast of Los Angeles, waiting for dock space to open up. California ports in Los Angeles and Long Beach account for about one third of US imports. These ports operate as a primary source of imports from China and have been heavily congested for months. On Thursday, 28 ships were anchored off the coast waiting for a spot to open up to unload at Los Angeles and Long Beach ports, according to data from the Marine Exchange of Southern California.
(...SNIPPED)[/quote]
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:25 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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In 1/350 scale the length of the Ever Given would be 45 inches (1,14 meters).
Just sayin'.
In 1/350 scale the length of the Ever Given would be 45 inches (1,14 meters).
Just sayin'.
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:23 pm |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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Now add a big fan and you're getting there. EJFoeth wrote: We did an early model test! Attachment: Untitled2.jpg
Now add a big fan and you're getting there. [quote="EJFoeth"]We did an early model test!
[attachment=0]Untitled2.jpg[/attachment][/quote]
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:36 pm |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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GMS, no idea what message you're receiving or what post you're trying to access - are you unable to view a specific post in this thread, or are you unable to see any posts in this thread?
GMS, no idea what message you're receiving or what post you're trying to access - are you unable to view a specific post in this thread, or are you unable to see any posts in this thread?
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:41 pm |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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Dear moderators,
Why am I denied access to the above post?
Dear moderators,
Why am I denied access to the above post?
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:07 pm |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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We did an early model test! Attachment: Untitled2.jpg
We did an early model test!
[attachment=0]Untitled2.jpg[/attachment]
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:22 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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I wonder if it was not simply sail effect through overloading. Ever Given had almost the maximum number of containers on deck with a 'sail' area the pilots may not be used to. Until recently load factors on these very large container ships were not that high so they would have much more responsive. I think bernoulli effect would have mattered but not at the start of the incident. The canal is not that narrow (about 4 times the beam of the ship). A possible scenario would have been some deviation from the centerline of the canal due to wind sail effect at first, the bow getting close to the shallower part of the canal lead to the bow being sucked to the edge (bernouilli effect between the canal edge and the bulbous bow) and as the pilot saw the ship moving out of control he ordered a sharp correction using the rudder. In doing so the rudder 'stalled' and the resulting braking forces swung the stern away until it hit the other side of the canal. Despite this the ship still had significant forward momentum which was spent embedding the ship into the edge. If the bottom was sandy or clay-ish the momentum also solidified the bottom and edge of the canal, making it harder to remove the ship. Solidified sand and clay can become rock-hard, the famous (in NL ) Eastern Scheldt storm surge barrier was build on solidified sand for example.
I wonder if it was not simply sail effect through overloading. Ever Given had almost the maximum number of containers on deck with a 'sail' area the pilots may not be used to. Until recently load factors on these very large container ships were not that high so they would have much more responsive. I think bernoulli effect would have mattered but not at the start of the incident. The canal is not that narrow (about 4 times the beam of the ship). A possible scenario would have been some deviation from the centerline of the canal due to wind sail effect at first, the bow getting close to the shallower part of the canal lead to the bow being sucked to the edge (bernouilli effect between the canal edge and the bulbous bow) and as the pilot saw the ship moving out of control he ordered a sharp correction using the rudder. In doing so the rudder 'stalled' and the resulting braking forces swung the stern away until it hit the other side of the canal. Despite this the ship still had significant forward momentum which was spent embedding the ship into the edge. If the bottom was sandy or clay-ish the momentum also solidified the bottom and edge of the canal, making it harder to remove the ship. Solidified sand and clay can become rock-hard, the famous (in NL ) Eastern Scheldt storm surge barrier was build on solidified sand for example.
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:55 pm |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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[quote="maxim"][quote="Iceman 29"]The squat effect could be also a factor at this high speed, The ship can be less manoeuvrable, the draft can be reduced from several meters.. [/quote]
Can you explain this? I have read several times that a ship is less maneuverable at low speeds, something which you also seem to indicate with "Did the pilots think that the ship's course would be easier to maintain at 13.5 knots because of the wind conditions?"[/quote]
Sure!
The faster you go the more efficient the rudder, the more efficient the hull, the less the ship drifts. The ship is more maneuverable, better defended as they say. These ships have flat bottoms, they are "soapsuds" on the water, especially with this air draft.
For the squat this video explains the phenomenon seriously:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LsRp7eFSU5k [youtube]LsRp7eFSU5k[/youtube]
This one is interesting too:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXxF9kMzOk0 [youtube]RXxF9kMzOk0[/youtube]
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:08 pm |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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One force on a ships maneuverability that I have not seen mentioned is 'bank suction'. In a narrow channel, as the ships speed increases, the fluid flow between the ships hull and the bank(s) of the channel produce a Bernoulli effect - the same principle to allows airplanes to fly. As a ship inches ever closer to a channel bank the water flow between the bank and the ships hull speeds up, produces a Bernoulli effect that literally 'sucks' the ship towards the bank. (It will also normally yaw a vessel when this happens just like what we saw with Ever Given.) If the Ever Given was, in fact, traveling at 13+ kts in the Suez, and the canal is pretty darn narrow where this incident happened, it would not take much of a deviance from centerline to induce bank suction. And once it has you its very difficult to break the pressure hold on the hull.
One force on a ships maneuverability that I have not seen mentioned is 'bank suction'. In a narrow channel, as the ships speed increases, the fluid flow between the ships hull and the bank(s) of the channel produce a Bernoulli effect - the same principle to allows airplanes to fly. As a ship inches ever closer to a channel bank the water flow between the bank and the ships hull speeds up, produces a Bernoulli effect that literally 'sucks' the ship towards the bank. (It will also normally yaw a vessel when this happens just like what we saw with Ever Given.) If the Ever Given was, in fact, traveling at 13+ kts in the Suez, and the canal is pretty darn narrow where this incident happened, it would not take much of a deviance from centerline to induce bank suction. And once it has you its very difficult to break the pressure hold on the hull.
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:23 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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I do wonder! I hope our folks at manoeuvring will be able to solve this mystery and produce a hefty report! (I only do propellers... never an incident with propellers...)
I do wonder! I hope our folks at manoeuvring will be able to solve this mystery and produce a hefty report! (I only do propellers... never an incident with propellers...)
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:39 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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Thank you for the link!
Low maneuverability plus effect of the canal walls (attraction) plus the wind? Obviously, some ships managed these conditions, whereas Ever Given had already two accidents.
Thank you for the link!
Low maneuverability plus effect of the canal walls (attraction) plus the wind? Obviously, some ships managed these conditions, whereas Ever Given had already two accidents.
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:32 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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There's a bit here: https://shallowwater.ugent.be/EN/kc_ond_ow_EN.htmShallow water effects combined with the narrowness of a canal can have a large effect on squat, more so the faster you go. From this report from our esteemed facility we measured half a meter for an ULCC at around 13 knots at around 22meters, and that's without canal wall effects. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/29/suez-canal-attempt-re-float-ever-given-delay-salvage-tugboatsAnd she's fully refloated.
There's a bit here:
[url]https://shallowwater.ugent.be/EN/kc_ond_ow_EN.htm[/url]
Shallow water effects combined with the narrowness of a canal can have a large effect on squat, more so the faster you go. From [url=https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/media/attachment/2020/6/25/bijlage_g_vaarroute_rapport_rapport_marin.pdf]this report[/url] from our esteemed facility we measured half a meter for an ULCC at around 13 knots at around 22meters, and that's without canal wall effects.
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/29/suez-canal-attempt-re-float-ever-given-delay-salvage-tugboats[/url]
And she's fully refloated.
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:14 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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Iceman 29 wrote: The squat effect could be also a factor at this high speed, The ship can be less manoeuvrable, the draft can be reduced from several meters.. Can you explain this? I have read several times that a ship is less maneuverable at low speeds, something which you also seem to indicate with "Did the pilots think that the ship's course would be easier to maintain at 13.5 knots because of the wind conditions?"
[quote="Iceman 29"]The squat effect could be also a factor at this high speed, The ship can be less manoeuvrable, the draft can be reduced from several meters.. [/quote]
Can you explain this? I have read several times that a ship is less maneuverable at low speeds, something which you also seem to indicate with "Did the pilots think that the ship's course would be easier to maintain at 13.5 knots because of the wind conditions?"
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:32 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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The Suez Canal speed limit is between 7.6 knots and 8.6 knots.
The 2 canal Pilots were in charge of manoeuvring at the moment of the incidents...
Did the pilots think that the ship's course would be easier to maintain at 13.5 knots because of the wind conditions? the investigations and the VDR Voyage Data Recorder (The ship "Black Box") will tell us.
The squat effect could be also a factor at this high speed, The ship can be less manoeuvrable, the draft can be reduced from several meters.. This calculation of max speed is done (compulsory, ISM code) before the canal entrance.
The Suez Canal speed limit is between 7.6 knots and 8.6 knots.
The 2 canal Pilots were in charge of manoeuvring at the moment of the incidents...
Did the pilots think that the ship's course would be easier to maintain at 13.5 knots because of the wind conditions? the investigations and the VDR Voyage Data Recorder (The ship "Black Box") will tell us.
The squat effect could be also a factor at this high speed, The ship can be less manoeuvrable, the draft can be reduced from several meters.. This calculation of max speed is done (compulsory, ISM code) before the canal entrance.
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:00 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:29 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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Some expert in the German news blamed the insufficient rudder causing her to be vulnerable to wind for both accidents - not the bow thrusters.
Some expert in the German news blamed the insufficient rudder causing her to be vulnerable to wind for both accidents - not the bow thrusters.
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:35 am |
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Re: Huge container ship jams Suez Canal after running agroun |
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So even larger... I recall doing all the design calculations for the Wärtsilä bow thrusters a while ago...
And indeed, at higher speeds the bow thrusters add nearly nothing to the manoeuvring characteristics, so I would not expect that they had anything to do with this incident (in contrast to ramming a ferry as Maxim indicated?)
So even larger... I recall doing all the design calculations for the Wärtsilä bow thrusters a while ago...
And indeed, at higher speeds the bow thrusters add nearly nothing to the manoeuvring characteristics, so I would not expect that they had anything to do with this incident (in contrast to ramming a ferry as Maxim indicated?)
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:38 am |
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