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Topic review - Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Rob-UK wrote:
Apologies if you're already familiar with this, but I've just found the amazing full color hour long documenary film of an Essex class carrier (USS Yorktown) in 1943-1944, great viewing to see all round the carrier in operation in full color.

As well as a good modelling reference, This is an hour well spent getting intimate with an Essex class carrier at war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5JbXRDOP60

also has a Wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fighting_Lady



The Fighting Lady is an absolut classic among the WWII documentaries...! :-)

cheers
Uwe
Post Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:56 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
I'm hoping in all the vast knowledge that exists on this sight someone might have some info on this.
While collecting as much info for a 1/350 Bunker Hill build I have noticed something that baffles me .
This picture shows the island and it is definitely Bunker Hill because that is her scoreboard on bulkhead, also note aircraft to the rear. Also as noted on prior posts what looks to be a Mk 51 tub fwd of the bridge.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021739.jpg
This second picture shows Bunker Hill w/ same and additional 40mm gun tubes to the Port aft would seem to indicate after Bremerton refit which upgraded her AA.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021733.jpg
What baffles me is that the ship is clearly fitted with an SK2 radar…
However in one of the most iconic pictures of all of WWII at the time of the kamikaze attack she clearly has an SK radar???
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021701.jpg
All subsequent photos of Bunker hill, even after her rebuild from the attack show an SK and the absence of any Mk 51 tube.
From all that I have ever read about the Bunker Hill it has been stated that she never again operated with an Airwing following her rebuid; meaning the pictures with the SK2 radar had to be PRIOR to the May 11, 1945 attack. Can anybody explain this? I’m really curious.
Post Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:24 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Cliffy B wrote:
Hey Ed, PM me an e-mail and I can send you a bunch of photos I've accrued of CV-32 if they'll help. She's the subject of one of my projects and I rummaged for awhile for photos so if will help you I'll gladly send them along :thumbs_up_1:


THanks Cliffy! PM inbound :thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:58 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Mark McKinnis wrote:
Hi Ed, Merry Christmas!


The DML Princeton kit will make into a Leyte pretty much out of the box. Dragon even gives you decals for her. She was an ASW Carrier so the S-2s and Helo's from the kit are also period accurate for you. Air Officer may refer to the Air Boss by todays name.

Good luck!

MM

Thanks Mark & Merry Christmas to you & yours! :thumbs_up_1: Thanks for the input on the DML Princeton kit. Wish I could afford one but,I can hardly pay attention right now as I'm that broke :Oops_1:

Ok, so, Air Officer may be the same as Air Boss. Ok, that sounds reasonable. I do know he was a Naval Aviator since 1941 at NAS Pensacola. His twin brother Herbert Charles SHIVELY went in at the same time & ended up flying Catalinas with VP-53!
Post Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:57 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Hey Ed, PM me an e-mail and I can send you a bunch of photos I've accrued of CV-32 if they'll help. She's the subject of one of my projects and I rummaged for awhile for photos so if will help you I'll gladly send them along :thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:49 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Hi Ed, Merry Christmas!


The DML Princeton kit will make into a Leyte pretty much out of the box. Dragon even gives you decals for her. She was an ASW Carrier so the S-2s and Helo's from the kit are also period accurate for you. Air Officer may refer to the Air Boss by todays name.

Good luck!

MM
Post Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:37 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Looking thru this thread and cannot find what I'm lookin' for... USS LEYTE (CVS-32) as I just found out a cousin of mine was aboard her in 1958-59 and was the Air Officer!(CAG??) CDR Howard Burton SHIVELY.
From what I have found is the LEYTE remained a straight deck CV and never had the major overhaul/refit like her sisters did. So, what kit in 1/700 would best be suited to build her up from? I have a Hasegawa ESSEX, Tamiya Hornet & I believe the Hasegawa Hancock. THanks.
Post Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Apologies if you're already familiar with this, but I've just found the amazing full color hour long documenary film of an Essex class carrier (USS Yorktown) in 1943-1944, great viewing to see all round the carrier in operation in full color.

As well as a good modelling reference, This is an hour well spent getting intimate with an Essex class carrier at war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5JbXRDOP60

also has a Wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fighting_Lady
Post Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:48 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Adaks wrote:
Roberto wrote:
Can I use the origina 1/350 Trumpeterl CV-9 Essex to make Yorktown?


Yes, with little modifications. If you mean May 1944-August 1944 period of course (I suppose you want to build her in dazzle).


Concur. Yorktown after the late 1944 refit was quite a bit different in AA fit, bridge, radars, flight deck cutouts, etc. The Trumpeter 1/350 USS Yorktown 1944 kit isn't correct for either before or after the late 1944 refit. But it makes a good starting point for a 1945 Yorktown with some relatively easy modifications.
Post Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:20 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Roberto wrote:
According to this post, I believe that the island bridge was extended to invlude an enlarged flag plot in the late 1944 refit.


Yes, you are right.

Roberto wrote:
Can I use the origina 1/350 Trumpeterl CV-9 Essex to make Yorktown?


Yes, with little modifications. If you mean May 1944-August 1944 period of course (I suppose you want to build her in dazzle).
Post Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:06 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Adaks wrote:
Jeffcsr wrote:

Here's the mounts I mean:


These two 40mm quads were on Yorktown from September 1944 refit to 1947 ((?) All the same, to the end of WW2 for sure ).

CV-10 was 'in dazzle' in two different configurations:

1\May 1944-August 1944 - hangar cat, one flight deck cat, early island, 10 40mm quads.

2\September 1944-May 1945 (?) - no hangar cat, two flight deck cats, late island, 17 40mm quads total.

Radar fit was also different in these two periods.

If you built Yorktown in configuration from picture (2) you should also use only two first radio masts.


According to this post, I believe that the island bridge was extended to invlude an enlarged flag plot in the late 1944 refit.

Can I use the origina 1/350 Trumpeterl CV-9 Essex to make Yorktown?
Post Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:10 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Thanks Mark

EJ
Post Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:25 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
MM2CVS9 wrote:
Mark McKinnis wrote:
Hi Alleycat,

Tracy is indeed the expert (He has a second sale on his book here as well) but I might be able to give some higher level tips.

Mark


Looked around the site for Tracy's book, but could find no reference to it. Is it available and if so, where/how can I get one. Been waiting.

EJ



I believe that he is still writing it.
Post Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Mark McKinnis wrote:
Hi Alleycat,

Tracy is indeed the expert (He has a second sale on his book here as well) but I might be able to give some higher level tips.

Mark


Looked around the site for Tracy's book, but could find no reference to it. Is it available and if so, where/how can I get one. Been waiting.

EJ
Post Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:04 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Thanks for the replies. Hopefully I am doing the "quote" thing right.

Dick J wrote:
For 1944, you have a point. But I believe that the kit was released for the "as commissioned" period.


The 1/700 Dragon Essex depicts the "as commissioned" configuration as you say, but the box art shows splinter camo with the two quad bofors on the port forward hanger deck sponson. This is misleading since these were done at the time of the April 1944 refit and the box does not contain these parts and the others mentioned. The radar depicted on the box art is also wrong for any Essex period. I think I fully understand the Essex "as commissioned" configuration.

Now I THINK I understand the Yorktown "post splinter/pre-refit" configuration as well. Correct me if I am wrong but it is the same as Essex "as commissioned" but with the newer cat (no changes needed - Yes!) and the two quad bofors mounts starboard aft and INBOARD near the crane . I think the time period was May through August give or take a few weeks. So this is an easier choice for the Dragon Essex kit than building post-refit Essex, and the splinter is nicer looking than the all blue pre-refit Essex.

So for the same time period (say April to September 1944) was Hornet (CV-12) the same as Yorktown? Same cat? Same 40mm bofors configuration? Same island deck configuration? Same aircraft? Probably a little different splinter paint scheme. Hornet info seems harder to come by.

For anyone reading through this thread and looking at building the 1/700 Dragon Essex kit in a splinter paint scheme and do not want to buy a second kit to "bash" it is much easier to build her as Yorktown in the Splinter/pre-refit time period than as Essex in post-refit splinter. Just scratch build the two starboard aft INBOARD mounted 40mm quad bofors tubs/mounts as discussed. You will also need to mask and paint the big black "10"s on each end of the flight deck, and I plan to paint the white "dashes" rather than use the kit decals which may or may not be correct. You will also need to find some SB2C-3 Helldivers to replace the kit SBDs.

I am still waiting to find out more about Hornet (CV-12).
Post Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:16 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
alleycat wrote:
I discovered on my own that the Dragon (Essex?) kit has the following errors:
1) Missing two quad Bofors on the port side hanger deck sponson - where the catapult was never installed.

These were not at first installed on the Essex. When she commissioned, it was still intended that she would add both catapults at some point, so no 40MM were installed there. In fact, using that extension for 40MM had not yet been thought of. The long-hulls were the first to complete with 40MM there. Franklin had her hangar cat deleted before leaving for the war zone, but did not initially have 40MM installed on the sponson. Ships already in the Pacific were modified with 40MM on that sponson when receiving refits or repairs. Essex had the track for a flightdeck catapult, but did not actually have it installed until later, when she received the shorter H-2 type.

alleycat wrote:
2) Missing two starboard aft quad Bofors near crane.

Essex, Yorktown, and Lexington all commissioned without those hangar-level 40MM mounts. They were added to Yorktown and Lexington before they entered combat, but not on Essex. On the ships that received the "outboard" 40MM (the three on the side below the island and the two at flightdeck catwalk level portside-aft) the two hangar level 40MM were moved outboard as well. (Uniquely, Intrepid had one done on one refit, and the other done later. Go figure??) When Essex finally had them added, they were in the inboard position!!

alleycat wrote:
3) Two forward island decks are the wrong shape for post '44 refit (flag bridge extended and forward quad Bofors removed.
4) Missing enlarged radar platform on tripod mast (I bought a nice PE WWII US Navy radar set so any configuration should be covered).

For 1944, you have a point. But I believe that the kit was released for the "as commissioned" period.

alleycat wrote:
5) Deck catapult too long (before reading this thread I thought there were 2) It would really be nice to build something with the cat as depicted.

You are correct, but to be fair to Dragon, Essex was the only ship of her class to have the shorter cat. They would have had to produce a "one-off" deck for their first kit of the class. Once it was proven they could make the money at it, they did produce a one-off deck for the Antietam. (Which would have been a lot nicer had they done the correct length for the forward end of the deck!)

alleycat wrote:
So question #1 - Did Yorktown have these 40mm gun tubs (two starboard aft quad bofors near the crane) at this time?

She had the hangar level quads added in the original inboard position shortly after commissioning. They were moved outboard when the other outboards were added during her Sep '44 Puget sound refit.. Yorktown had the hangar cat removed and the second flightdeck unit installed in the same refit.
Post Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Hi Alleycat,

Tracy is indeed the expert (He has a second sale on his book here as well) but I might be able to give some higher level tips. It would probably be easier if you decide on which ship and what era first. Then it gets easier to figure out which kit does the best job for the Essex Class of choice in that era. As I recall the Dragon Lexington and Hornet Kits are the most accurate for those ships but I am not sure. Tracy would be better to confirm that.

Big picture stuff first.

One CAT or two. It is hard to correct those decks so I would make that call first. I seem to recall that all of the long hull ships were two CATs. It is pretty easy to remove the hanger cat.

Early bridge layout or later bridge layout. I would have to go back and figure out which kits do which combo but they are out there.

Dragon added in parts sprues to the original kits for the later models so you get extra parts to help with reconfiguring AA layouts.

That is just a few things.

Good Luck,

Mark
Post Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:16 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
That's good news, thanks.

Like I said, I spent quite a bit of time reading through this thread and must admit as to quite often being confused as to which changes are needed by the various Trumpeter or Dragon kits. It was probably explained clearly but after 106 PAGES! my head is spinning. So my apologies if this has been answered before.

To Tracy White,

I could really use your book about now! Consider one sold to me, sight unseen. I can't wait.

To Everyone,

I have been waiting for many years for a good quality 1/700 USS Enterprise (CV-6) to do her at Midway in Measure 11 I believe, but I have given up on that (I saw last night that there is ANOTHER Yorktown CV-5 coming out next year, oh well, maybe it will be an easy conversion - why do the model companies ignore Enterprise?). I found a good price on a 1/700 Dragon USS Essex (CV-9) and have been researching on my own until I found this site a few weeks ago. I want to do one of the Essex class in splinter scheme, just in case that Enterprise comes along soon, but have no preference as to which ship to do or which time frame or battle to depict (other than splinter).

I discovered on my own that the Dragon kit has the following errors:

1) Missing two quad Bofors on the port side hanger deck sponson - where the catapult was never installed.
2) Missing two starboard aft quad Bofors near crane.
3) Two forward island decks are the wrong shape for post '44 refit (flag bridge extended and forward quad Bofors removed.
4) Missing enlarged radar platform on tripod mast (I bought a nice PE WWII US Navy radar set so any configuration should be covered).
5) Deck catapult too long (before reading this thread I thought there were 2) It would really be nice to build something with the cat as depicted.
6) I always have questions about number and location of 20mm Orlikons but will save that for later if I can't find it on my own.

So it looks like it would be much easier to build this "Essex" as one of her sisters. I am thinking Yorktown after application of splinter but before refit or maybe as Hornet (both as seen on page 13 of "Essex Class Carriers in Action" - Squadron-Signal. My question is which requires the least work from this kit. I read on here that Yorktown is close to the Essex pre-refit configuration but I do not know about the two starboard aft quad bofors near the crane. Also, one source claimed that Yorktown got a second catapult at the time of the first splinter paint job (BEFORE the refit), but I do not think I believe this.

So question #1 - Did Yorktown have these 40mm gun tubs (two starboard aft quad bofors near the crane) at this time and when was the second cat added? (OK, so that is two questions)

Question #2 - What time frame would be best for Hornet which would allow for the fewest changes, and what might those changes be?

Question #3 - It looks like no matter which way I go I will need some Helldivers. I have been searching for the Dragon ones so I can easily do folded wings but I can not find them anywhere in stock. So can anyone tell me where I can get them or offer another solution. I found references to a Dragon set that included 6 Hellcats, 6 Avengers and 6 Helldivers and the extras would be nice but I would still need some additional Helldivers. I think 12 of each would be perfect to show a busy hanger and flight deck. I know that Trumpeter has these but I believe the wings are depicted extended. Is Trumpeter my only choice?

This is my first ship model since the early 1970's. I am a long time aircraft modeler with plenty of reference material plus my brother is a famous and successful aviation artist (he did many Revell/Monogram aircraft model box covers) so I have that side covered. I can do scratch building but some of the Essex sponsons have fairly complex shapes so I would prefer not to attempt to scratch those. I looked into getting the Dragon Lexington (CV-16) so I could do a post-refit Yorktown but the supply seems to have dried up.

Also, in my researching I found some 1/700 scale 40mm Quad Bofors from the Fine Molds Nano Dread line and ordered them. I do not understand why I saw no reference to them in this thread as they are very nice and much more accurate than the Dragon Bofors. They even fit the PE splinter shields I have. This product is one reason I decided to do an Essex, just to use them! Another reason is the book "Ship Models from Kits" by David Griffith. I really want to try some of his techniques (soldering masts, rigging, filter painting, diorama bases, etc.)

Everyone is welcome to make a suggestion or vote on which Essex I should depict. I reserve the right to make the final decision however.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Post Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:51 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
These are threads meant for continuous use, and most of the major players are still around, so ask away!
Post Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:19 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
I have spent many hours over four days reading through this thread to see if my questions were answered. Now it has been over one month since a post in here, last post September 20 2014. Can someone tell me if this thread is still active? If not, where is it continued. If it is still active I will post my questions here.

Thanks
Post Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:42 pm

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