The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:40 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post a reply
Post icon:
None
Username:
Subject:
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 60000 characters. 

Font size:
Font colour
Options:
BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Disable BBCode
Do not automatically parse URLs
Question
type everything in between the quote marks: "N0$pam" Note the Zero:
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
   

Topic review - Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Bunker Hill will be a while. I have about 4 or 5 1/350 ships ahead of her. I am trying to finish up a 1/350 Kearsarge SCB-27A ship I am doing but I keep getting bogged down. It is the Iron Ship Wright conversion set and it is a bit of a beast. At least I have the air wing done so that is half the battle. Ticonderogs (Gallery Intrepid) will be next, then Essex, and on it goes.
Post Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:55 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
I was leaning towards the Yorktown kit after taking a look at the wooden flight deck upgrade set from Pontos. It seems like a really nice addition and has the stencils for both "13" and "17", so I am assuming the Yorktown mirrors Franklin and Bunker Hill so the differences come down to aircraft included in the kit?

Actually, just did some research here and see that the kits are considered indentical except for Franklin's included Corsairs, which I would want. I will have to be sure and follow your work on the kit Mark, and thanks for the tip.
Post Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:20 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
PeeJay74 wrote:
Could someone help me out and recommend which of Trumpeter's 1/350 Essex class kits would be closest to USS Bunker Hill (CV-17) circa February 1945 during the Home Islands raids?

I build 1/48 WWII aircraft exclusively and came upon the idea of doing the entire lineup for CAG 84 during the raids (nothing spices up GSB paint schemes like a yellow nose and some white arrows!), and then I thought it would be a great project to add their ship to the mix for a really nice display. The aircraft particulars I can handle easily, but I'm admittedly clueless about ships. I didn't even realize there were so many camo schemes.

Trumpeter's line seems like a good fit for what I want to do, maybe a little PE added in to improve it without going off the deep end trying to make it 100% accurate. I would appreciate it if you guys could lend me some knowledge and experience to get me pointed in the right direction as I have no experience with ship kits or aftermarket.

Thanks in advance!



I am planning on using the Trumpeter CV-13 Franklin Kit. Should be pretty close with some potential mods to the mast's.
Post Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:59 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Could someone help me out and recommend which of Trumpeter's 1/350 Essex class kits would be closest to USS Bunker Hill (CV-17) circa February 1945 during the Home Islands raids?

I build 1/48 WWII aircraft exclusively and came upon the idea of doing the entire lineup for CAG 84 during the raids (nothing spices up GSB paint schemes like a yellow nose and some white arrows!), and then I thought it would be a great project to add their ship to the mix for a really nice display. The aircraft particulars I can handle easily, but I'm admittedly clueless about ships. I didn't even realize there were so many camo schemes.

Trumpeter's line seems like a good fit for what I want to do, maybe a little PE added in to improve it without going off the deep end trying to make it 100% accurate. I would appreciate it if you guys could lend me some knowledge and experience to get me pointed in the right direction as I have no experience with ship kits or aftermarket.

Thanks in advance!
Post Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:55 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
:wave_1: Question what would Lexington CV-16 have looked like in April 1944 radars, AA, visually, and structurally, Etc,during raids on Hollaindia as part of TF 58.3?
Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:52 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Looked at a few photos of said opening and they all seem to show a metal screen or mesh covering it with 3 horizontal and 1 vertical metal brace. I think its an intake of some sort.

You can that symbol on a set of plans for CL-89 on bulkheads of fan rooms; Page 6 Main Deck.
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cl89.pdf
Post Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:34 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Plastic Habit wrote:
Need help identifying hull plate opening. Is it a door opening or some vent opening? AOTS Intrepid shows the Compressor room on the other side of the bulkhead, but no opening according to the A8/1 General Arrangements drawing. Nor does there seem to be any vent trunk shown on the hanger deck for this opening. There is the vent opening above on the forecastle deck. Please, what is this opening? Any info would be greatly appreciated.


I have the Booklet of General Plans from SHANGRI-LA dated 7 April 1945 and they show the same item at that location (Frame 79) in the starboard profile drawing, but do not identify it. It is outboard of Compressor Room, B-101-L. There is a symbol at that location on the Main Deck drawing. According to a Naval Blueprint Reading manual, the symbol may indicate a check valve. Not sure if there is a connection between the symbol on the deck plan and the item on the profile. The item also shows on the profile drawings for INTREPID -1944, RANDOLPH - 1945, and SHANGRI-LA - 1951, but is not identified.


Attachments:
DSC00983.JPG
DSC00983.JPG [ 147.43 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]
Post Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:17 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Need help identifying hull plate opening. Is it a door opening or some vent opening? AOTS Intrepid shows the Compressor room on the other side of the bulkhead, but no opening according to the A8/1 General Arrangements drawing. Nor does there seem to be any vent trunk shown on the hanger deck for this opening. There is the vent opening above on the forecastle deck. Please, what is this opening? Any info would be greatly appreciated.


Attachments:
SAM_2825.JPG
SAM_2825.JPG [ 185.69 KiB | Viewed 467 times ]
Post Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:21 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
GaryJ in NC wrote:
I see what you mean. Does the R sprue apply to all ships with the early bridge? Building platforms to correct shapes is to me a lot easier than redoing a flight deck planking pattern.


It was molded specifically for the Hornet *kit* but should work for most of the early fits. There were some minor differences between ships that came out of different yards, so "check your references" holds true.

GaryJ in NC wrote:
Also, I assume that the comment in the review about the shortened flight deck is an error. I have seen no evidence that this was done, and I'll bet that the Air Department would have pitched a hissy fit if anyone had tried.


Which review was that in? I didn't read them before posting, was mainly after the instructions sheets with their isometric drawings. Only one ship had a "permanently" shortened flight deck, and Essex, Hornet, and Wasp weren't that ship. One of the collapsed flight deck ships (I think Hornet) launched planes off flight deck afterwards, but I think it was mainly to move them to another ship.
Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:54 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Tracy:

I see what you mean. Does the R sprue apply to all ships with the early bridge? Building platforms to correct shapes is to me a lot easier than redoing a flight deck planking pattern.

I have two ESSEX kits on hand and was thinking about using one for WASP and one for HORNET. If I pick up a DML HORNET, I can always swap the two-cat flight deck for the single cat flight deck. No of the current ESSEX kits (DML or Trumpeter) have ESSEX with the correct bridge for her 1944 appearance in MS 32/6-10d, so some work will have to be done there.

Also, I assume that the comment in the review about the shortened flight deck is an error. I have seen no evidence that this was done, and I'll bet that the Air Department would have pitched a hissy fit if anyone had tried.
Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
I think it might depend - do you find it easier to fill and rescribe a bunch of parallel lines, or scratch build / modify some island platforms. It's been a while since I worked on the kits, but from memory, we had Dragon redo some platforms on the island for the CV-12 kit. I believe they declined to remove the catapult for tooling cost reasons.

MW CV-9 review
Step 8 Piece F4, I remember looking for some photos of the area between the gun tub and the splinter shields for Dragon. I can't make it out enough in this scan of the instructions to to see for sure

Corresponding MW CV-12 review
Step 8, piece R1 - Direct Link
Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:37 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Thanks, Tracy. I appreciate the information on BENNINGTON very much. This makes CV-20 rather unique among short-hull ESSEXs.

The DML HORNET kit appears to have two flight deck catapults. It was my understanding that CV-12 didn't get the port catapult until her summer 1945 refit. If so, then the DML ESSEX kit may be the better starting point for HORNET. I am aware that the radar suite is different but that will be done with PE anyway.
Post Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:39 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
The "Hornet 1945" label is a bit of a misnomer. It's essentially kitted for her 1943 - June 1945 fit.

CV-20 did not have the arched doors.

Hope this helps!
Post Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:20 pm
  Post subject:  Question regarding HORNET (CV-12) and BENNINGTON (CV-20)  Reply with quote
Good Day:

I have two questions regarding the HORNET (CV-12) and BENNINGTON (CV-20). First, the DML kit of HORNET lists her in her 1945 configuration but wearing her MS 32 camouflage. Several photos from March and April 1945 show HORNET in a very worn, faded paint scheme. At this time, HORNET clearly has the early bridge, single starboard catapult, and no hangar deck catapult. The forward port hangar deck level platform has the two 40mm mounts there. My question is this: Does the DML kit portray HORNET as she appeared in April-March 1945 or does the kit reflect the summer 1945 configuration with the modified bridge (in which case the camouflage scheme would be incorrect)?

My second question is in regards to the port forward hangar deck opening. I would like to confirm that CV-20 was completed without the arched door opening common to other short hull ships of the class. The door style would have been the same as for the long-hull variants which (like CV-20) were never completed with a hangar deck catapult. I have one photo (NS022029) which appears to show the different doors, but I would like to confirm this.

Thanks.
Post Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:01 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
MFH wrote:
There's a >=1953 photo in a Hornet (CV-12) book I've got that calls out her conflagration station, but it has three visible slits for windows (I'm guessing it was armored). So, since it was taken after her post-war refit, I don't trust it for a WW II layout.


Same area, but different details by then. I had thought that there was a good, clear shot on Navsource, but I'm having a hard time finding it. For now, you can sorta make it out in this CV-10 photo, above the SBD "29" in the distance. They were square early on.
Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 10:54 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Thanks, Tracy.

I had thought about the conflagration station last night, too. However, where exactly was it?!

I looked at the layouts for Essex and Lexington in Raven's "Essex-Class Carriers", but don't find it (or any similar nomenclature) called out (unless I'm missing something, which is clearly possible!), either in the gallery, forecastle, hangar deck, etc. levels. I would think it would be on her starboard side under the island for the best overall view of the hangar...

There's a >=1953 photo in a Hornet (CV-12) book I've got that calls out her conflagration station, but it has three visible slits for windows (I'm guessing it was armored). So, since it was taken after her post-war refit, I don't trust it for a WW II layout.

And after digging through many of my books, I get why you asked about the Big E, I forgot how many rectangular windows she had along the port side of her island!

I did find this image of Hornet's PriFly/Fly One/whatever, and I can tell the CV-17 photo I asked about and where I thought it might have been taken on the island are NOT the same. (It does show the "roof" pretty nicely.)

I just can't figure out where else on the ship where there were windows like that. I'll go look through the hangar photos from earlier in the thread, perhaps...
Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:35 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Actually, given the 90 degree corner, I wouldn't be too surprised if that's the conflagration station station in the hangar bay. I've never seen evidence that the windows flipped in like that, but that's the closest match I can think of.
Post Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 11:47 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Looking at resources a little more closely, I don't see anything on the outside of an Essex island (other than "Fly One) that has rectangular windows. Maybe the photo was taken in a compartment overlooking the hangar deck? That would make sense, too.

Anyway, goodnight for now.
Post Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:44 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Tracy, I don't think he ever served on the Big E. And I'll ask him about post-war service, but he said the photo was taken shortly before Bunker Hill was kamikazed, which would place it before 11 May 1945.

Kennedy's "Danger's Hour" has a drawing of Bunker Hill's island on the back inside cover, and there are apparently some square/rectangular windows for what the drawing has labeled "Fly One", and if Hughen worked with flight deck coordination, that makes some sense to me. And in the drawing, there appears to be a roof over "Fly One", but it's not clear, and there's no telling where the artist got his/her info from...

I THINK I can see a window on the port side of the island aft of the 40 mm mount here:

Image

Also, back to Reynolds' "The Fighting Lady", two photos with square windows come to mind. On the cover, Flatley's F6F-3 is "under" that same basic spot on the island, but it is open to the weather (i.e., no roof). Was this location later "roofed in" during her refit (and something similarly done to Bunker Hill during her's)? I looked quickly through my Essex photos and didn't find a similar photo, but I'll look more tomorrow.

Another "square window photo" in "The Fighting Lady" is on page 288, in the photo at the bottom of the page, George Earnshaw is in a compartment with rectangular windows. The interior photos of Bunker Hill and Yorktown were obviously (at least to me) taken in different parts of the ships, but I've got no clue where...

Thanks for checking.
Post Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:05 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Did he ever serve on Enterprise, and how long did he serve after the war? I can't think of any Essex class in WWII that had square windows like that on the island.
Post Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:05 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group