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Topic review - Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Tracy White wrote:
Don't have an exact date. Not fully removed until her overhaul in the summer of 1945, but for modeler's purpose by February of 1945. Murderers' Row in December is unclear. Hoping to resolve that for sure on my next NARA trip.


The Feb 1945 photo on Navsource shows Hornet during an UnRep, and the fold-up catapult section is gone but the mounting stub of the catapult is visible, but all remaining trace of it was removed in her mid-1945 return to the States for major overhaul. When it was done is uncertain, but it could have been removed while forward deployed. Ulithi had equipment there that could have handled it.

June 1944, still there, and a similar but less clear July 1944 shot also shows the folded up catapult:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021273.jpg

Feb 1945, catapult track gone and stub plated over:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021234.jpg
Post Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:12 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Thanks, y'all.

Mike
Post Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:53 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Don't have an exact date. Not fully removed until her overhaul in the summer of 1945, but for modeler's purpose by February of 1945. Murderers' Row in December is unclear. Hoping to resolve that for sure on my next NARA trip.
Post Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:40 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Timmy C wrote:
Mike, he's talking about CV-12 (we're also in the Essex class thread ;)).


LOL. It's been a long day! I would have sworn the e-mail said a new message in the Hornet thread. Sorry about that! It is just that the topic of CV-8's hangar cat and sponsons and their removal was quite coincidentally, just being discussed there, and I had just posted on it there. Did not realize the question was for CV-12 info. That said, I'm fairly sure she kept her hangar cat until well into 1944. June 1944 photo shows it still there. Another, dated Feb. 1945 shows it gone.
Post Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:17 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Mike, he's talking about CV-12 (we're also in the Essex class thread ;)).
Post Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:46 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Hornet CV-12  Reply with quote
quote="Mikevpd"]When was Hornet's hangar deck catapult removed?

Thanks in advance,

Mike[/quote]

The hangar cat was removed at Pearl Harbor during Hornet's yard period that ran late from mid June to early July, after the Battle of Midway. During this time, her SC radar was moved aft to the main mast and a CXAM salvaged from California was installed on the tripod mast. Other mods included enlargement of the bow tub to receive a fifth 1.1 quad, and increasing the 20mm battery alongside the island from four to eight guns. Also,some of the small catwalks along the top of the funnel were removed (the aft sections remained).
Post Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:37 pm
  Post subject:  Hornet CV-12  Reply with quote
When was Hornet's hangar deck catapult removed?

Thanks in advance,

Mike
Post Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:49 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Molding kits from the molds involves setting up the machine, doing test runs to get settings right, then running the desired numbers of sprues for a specific number of kits. Depending on the size of the kit being made and the schedule needed to run other kits (they can't afford to buy a mold machine to run just one mold, one injection machine will be used for any "mold" sized for that machine), they don't want to have too much "downtime" between production runs. So, running production for as many kits as possible all at one time ... aka making two dozen to fill some supplier's need isn't feasible ... is the norm in any production operation. Manufacturers will access how many kits to make and make that many. In some cases, like Trumpeter in cooperation with Pitroad on some kits, will run both production runs at the same time. I assume that in the case of Pitroad (and any other partner) that Trumpeter will only provide the molded sprues, perhaps in plastic wraps, to them and Pitroad will box them in their own boxes and make an "Instruction Sheet".

In cases where there are multiple kits made from the same molds, like the ESSEX class, DML or Trumpeter will likely make a production run of parts for ALL variants at the same time. Even if they don't package and release ALL those variants on the same date. For marketing and production line packaging schedule, they likely will space out the releases ... or rather RE-releases.

DML, Trumpeter, Tamiya, etc all paid to have molds made ... they can and will reuse them to make more kits once demand has made it economical to do so. The Japanese 1/700 scale cartel has been doing that since the 1970s. Sometimes they will still make kits from older molds, even if a "newer" mold for that kit exists. The older kit version will sell for less than the new version, even if of poorer quality/accuracy the price is attractive to some.
Post Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:41 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
As I understand it, kits are simply molds that they plug into the big injection molding machines. Naturally, there are a lot more molds than there are machines, so every company has to find time to give each mold their moment in the sun, so the speak. Molds for kits that are less popular, such as ships, would be out of the molding machines for a lot longer than those of more popular subjects.
Post Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:00 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Well, explained like that it does make good business sense. I kind of got worried and assumed the kit will never be available again, silly me! Now I've got one I'm not looking for another with any urgency, but it's nice to know if I want one next year or something that they'll be back eventually.
Post Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:50 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Most kit manufacturers will not perpetually flood the market with a particular subject. They would rather wait until demand grows a bit more so that their next run sells out again, as opposed to maintaining stock in a warehouse. That said, I'll let me contact at Dragon know and see if I can't grease the skids a bit.
Post Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:52 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Well, bad luck with the Hancock, the kit is discontinued so I won't be able to confirm if it includes the long deck. I managed to snap up a Randolph for my build so I will have to do some deck surgery, but that kit is also discontinued.

Does anybody know why most if not all of Dragon's Essex class kits are discontinued and impossible to find? It's a shame because they are excellent kits.
Post Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:01 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Tracy White wrote:
Excellent find!


Ditto That!
Post Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:55 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Excellent find!
Post Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:35 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
On LBJ's Birthday (a state holiday here in Texas, but one I'm not too proud to celebrate), I spent the day with a friend who was a B-29 veteran. As I was looking for information about his bombardment group, etc., I ran across the Bangor, ME, Public Library Digital Commons (http://digicom.bpl.lib.me.us/ww_reg_his/).

Luckily, at this site, I was able to find histories for both the 497th Bomb Group and 73rd Bomb Wing (my friend's units), and not go to his house COMPLETELY ignorant of his experiences.

As a bonus, there are downloadable PDF cruise books for three Essex-class carriers:

U.S.S. Franklin,
U.S.S. Ticonderoga, and
U.S.S. Hancock.

There are some great pictures contained in them, and the OCR seems pretty robust (not to mention just the history contained in the books). I'm putting them here if they might be help to modelers. There's a lot of details I hadn't seen before (hangar deck details, island details, plane markings, etc.).

For other navy "stuff", there's a fair amount of ships' histories, such as destroyers, cruisers, battleships, etc., which I think could be great help to modelers, not to mention construction battalions. And, lots of USA & USAAF histories as well (such as my dad's 11th Airborne Division, which he served with in Deutschland in the 1950s).

Anyway, I just wanted to share, as I think they are pretty darn interesting...
Post Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:20 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Sorry to interrupt. Now hear this:

What was promised us has now been delivered:

Cranes, Moto-tugs, Jeeps. Even more: bombs and trolleys to boot.
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=157353

Excellent!
Post Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:25 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Indeed, I am sure there are many complexities of variation to each ship, but the purpose of the reviews is not in my opinion to document the subject matter. Even in the absence of detailed knowledge on individual configurations, and especially when several kits have a 90% parts commonality, the purpose of the reviews should be to seek out and highlight the differences.

Anyway, this was probably not the best thread in which to raise this slight criticism, but I do think the kit differences are worth noting for other builders.

I will probably buy a Hancock for my purposes and report back, but if anyone else owns some or all of these kits (even built) it might be nice to get a side by side photo of the flight decks.
Post Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:17 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Vlad wrote:
I believe the reviews on this site are a little misleading since the photo of the flight deck is the same in all three kit reviews when in fact this part is unique in of the three kits.


Common wisdom even recently was that the first three long hulls were launched with short decks but had them changed before going to the war zone, that at the very least only Hancock had the short deck. We've managed to determine that each ship was in fact entirely different, and that makes things more complex, obviously. However, the reviews were written when this wasn't as well known and it's not abnormal for short cuts to be made when writing a review for a product that is 90% the same as another kit that was already shot and written about.
Post Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:08 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Dick/Tracy,

I've been trying my best to dig up reviews and pictures of the kits in question. What I believe now is that the Princeton kit has the correct long deck and no cutouts, the Randolph kit has the short deck and the Hancock kit has the long deck with cutouts. So as far as Shangri La (or any other long hull, extended deck late war ship) is concerned, the Hancock kit would be the ideal starting point and major deck surgery is not required, only filling the cutouts.

I believe the reviews on this site are a little misleading since the photo of the flight deck is the same in all three kit reviews when in fact this part is unique in of the three kits.

As a side note, the Princeton kit seems a bit hard to find and crops up at ridiculous prices in some places.
Post Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:21 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
I will have to pull out one of the kits to check the 40MM cutouts. But I do remember that the Boxer kit had the short deck, and I was relieved when the Princeton kit had the proper length deck.
Post Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:35 am

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