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Topic review - Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
Did the amidships twin 20mm guns displace any singles or were they an extra additions?

thanks
Mike
Post Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:05 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
The weapons on the foc's'le are indeed twin 20mm Mk V; there was another each side amidships, in sponsons in the flight deck catwalks. These were fitted some time after she commissioned - earlier photos only show single mountings.
Post Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:54 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
tjstoneman wrote:
I'm afraid I don't know the colours - interpretation of black and white photos is notoriously difficult! There are photos of her in two different schemes at http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org ... ONz2MTldY; one of these is similar to the drawings of AVENGER's and ATTACKER's port sides in the Warship Perspectives book, which states that AVENGER wore USN colours (Navy Blue, Ocean Gray, Haze Gray and White) in this scheme and ATTACKER used only Navy Blue, Ocean Gray and Haze Gray. The upper photo on that page, taken later than the lower one, shows SEARCHER in a later scheme, similar in style to those in the third volume of Warship Perspectives, and presumably uses the RN range of colours. One photo shows SEARCHER with her pennant number "40" in the same tone as the lightest colour of her camouflage.



Thanks again, I'll be able to work something out I think!

Are those power twin 20mm guns on the bow?, If so, were they fitted anywhere else?

thanks
Mike
Post Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:58 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
I'm afraid I don't know the colours - interpretation of black and white photos is notoriously difficult! There are photos of her in two different schemes at http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org ... ONz2MTldY; one of these is similar to the drawings of AVENGER's and ATTACKER's port sides in the Warship Perspectives book, which states that AVENGER wore USN colours (Navy Blue, Ocean Gray, Haze Gray and White) in this scheme and ATTACKER used only Navy Blue, Ocean Gray and Haze Gray. The upper photo on that page, taken later than the lower one, shows SEARCHER in a later scheme, similar in style to those in the third volume of Warship Perspectives, and presumably uses the RN range of colours. One photo shows SEARCHER with her pennant number "40" in the same tone as the lightest colour of her camouflage.
Post Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:18 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
tjstoneman wrote:
SEARCHER carried SW RDF Type 272 (the "lantern" on the short lattice structure on the island) and AW.RDF Type 281B (the array of dipoles on the topmast above the larger lattice mast). She also carried an HF/DF aerial on the pole mast in the starboard for's catwalk. She wore at least two camouflage schemes, and possibly three.


Thanks for that.

The picture I've got shows her in what looks like a 3 colour scheme. The lightest colour looks like a very light Grey, possibly even white. As the picture is in Black and White, the other colours appear as a Medium and Dark Grey. Any suggestions?

Also I've got the Warships Perspective books including the one with several colour schemes for the Attacker class, would Searcher have been painted in any of them at any point?

thanks
Mike
Post Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:34 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
SEARCHER carried SW RDF Type 272 (the "lantern" on the short lattice structure on the island) and AW.RDF Type 281B (the array of dipoles on the topmast above the larger lattice mast). She also carried an HF/DF aerial on the pole mast in the starboard for's catwalk. She wore at least two camouflage schemes, and possibly three.
Post Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:19 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
tjstoneman wrote:
According to David Hobbs Royal Navy Escort Carriers (Liskeard: Maritime Books, 2003), the Ruler class carried 2 single 5" Mk 9 guns, instead of the 4" guns fitted in the Attacker class. PUNCHER and ATHELING were fitted with SK air search radars - the photo of the former referred to shows the antenna trained abeam, so it is virtually invisible, and that of ATHELING shows her after the war, without the SK antenna which had previously been fitted (visible in various other photos). The only photos of an Attacker class ship with more than four twin 40mm Bofors guns I have seen are of SEARCHER with 8 twin mountings.


So that means if I want to model one of the first group (as was HMS Tracker herself!) I should model HMS Searcher, if I don't want to modify the kit for the Bofors guns. What Radars were fitted to HMS Searcher and is there any painting diagrams for her, as well as info on what colours she was painted in? I can see from the pic it's some kind of dazzle camou but it's not a clear side on picture.

thanks
Mike
Post Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:05 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
According to David Hobbs Royal Navy Escort Carriers (Liskeard: Maritime Books, 2003), the Ruler class carried 2 single 5" Mk 9 guns, instead of the 4" guns fitted in the Attacker class. PUNCHER and ATHELING were fitted with SK air search radars - the photo of the former referred to shows the antenna trained abeam, so it is virtually invisible, and that of ATHELING shows her after the war, without the SK antenna which had previously been fitted (visible in various other photos). The only photos of an Attacker class ship with more than four twin 40mm Bofors guns I have seen are of SEARCHER with 8 twin mountings.
Post Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:54 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
DavidP wrote:
CVE-53, D79 - HMS Puncher - Booklet of General Plans, 1944, Bogue Class
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cve53-d79.pdf


Thanks for that.

I've just picked up a Ships Illustrated magazine on RN Carriers of WW2. It's not the most extensive publication on the subject but there's plenty of general info and photos.

Regards the US built RN Escort Carriers, I have been reminded of the following. The first group (Attacker class, of which HMS Tracker is part of) were laid down as merchant ships and converted into Bogue class carriers but transferred to the RN on completion. They were armed with 2 single 4 inch and 4 Twin Bofors (plus numerous 20mm guns). It shows a picture of HMS Fencer, Searcher and Battler. I can't make out the radar's on the mast but there is clearly a Radar lantern in place of the SK radar of the USN ships. Both the pics of Battler and Fencer show only 1 tub for the twin Bofors forward but HMS Searcher clearly, has 2 twin Bofors on either side forward.

That leads me to ask the following question - did all the ships in the first group get the extra twin Bofors guns and if so when?

The next group was known as the Ruler class and differed from the first group by being built as carriers (merchant style hulls) from the start and were almost identical. There is no mention of the armament but the pictures of HMS Puncher and Atheling show they had 8 twin Bofors guns but I assume they would have the single 4 inch guns too. The plans in the previous post show HMS Puncher with an SK radar but there is no SK radar in the pictures of Puncher or Atheling, in fact I can't make out exactly what they had there but there is no big squarish radar antenna present!

I'd like to model the kit as any of the first group, so if anyone knows the answer to the question posted a few lines above, please let me know asap!

thanks
Mike
Post Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:56 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
CVE-53, D79 - HMS Puncher - Booklet of General Plans, 1944, Bogue Class
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cve53-d79.pdf
Post Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:36 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
I have the Skywave 1/700 HMS Tracker kit in my stash and would like to know what building options I have with it.

From what I can see, it looks exactly like the USS Bogue kit but I know there were differences in the US and RN ships. I know the RN ships had 4 twin Bofors and 4 inch guns instead of the 8 twin Bofors and 5 inch guns of the US ships and I would imagine the radars would be different too.

My first question is can I build it OOB as an RN ship (perhaps with the most minor changes, ie radars) and if so which one?

Next question - if the answer to the first question is no, is there any drawings or diagrams showing the differences? For example, if all the RN ships had 4 twin Bofors, I'll need to remove them from the kit but which ones?

thanks
Mike
Post Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:58 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
pdf file for hms puncher http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cve53-d79.pdf
Post Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
CADMAN on here was kind enough to send me a scan of the Skywave instructions for the HMS Attacker kit so I could build the Tamiya Bogue as an RN vessel - frustratingly I lost them - is anyone able to send me a copy again, please?

Many thanks, Rob
Post Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:20 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
Thanks!
Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 12:47 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cve53-d79.pdf
Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 10:32 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
Thanks, Tracy! After staring into it for more I tend to agree. Especially as I cannot see larger cabins of any other types.
Post Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:32 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
I'm pretty sure those are all Wildcats. Not 100% sure, but pretty sure.
Post Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:14 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
Dear Tracy, thanks a lot for your reply!
Quote:
Have you looked over her Navsource page?[?URL] They have some Attu pictures there. Looks like a fairly standard setup - I would compare the photos to http://hnsa.org/doc/plans/acv6.pdf this reference plan (page 13).

Yes I saw the Navsource - and thanks for pointing me to the plan! There was most probably no time to make any modifications to her before Attu so we can assume she was as-built (and that they builders adhered to the plan of the class).
Quote:
On board the Nassau, there was one squadron of 24 pilots with 26 F4F Wildcat airplanes; three Marine pilots and three photographic F4Fs, and a SOC-3a aircraft.

This is really interesting. Unfortunately the Navsource photos are taken from a distance and the resolution is quite low. Do you think that the a/c on http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/0301602.jpg (enlarged below) are all Wildcats? Theyx may be, but some on the right look to me like having wider undercarriage than F4F, but the photo is very blurred to be sure. The most forward one in the centre may even have rounded wing tips (SBD?) but it may have just been obscured by something/someone...
Quote:
(Ms 21) Most likely - Measure 14 is a possibility, but I haven't found anything yet that says either way.

Exactly. Thanks!


Attachments:
0301602_zoom.jpg
0301602_zoom.jpg [ 39.06 KiB | Viewed 674 times ]
Post Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:53 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
Vladi wrote:
- info on her AA guns configuration (preferably a drawing)


Have you looked over her Navsource page?[?URL] They have some Attu pictures there. Looks like a fairly standard setup - I would compare the photos to [URL=http://hnsa.org/doc/plans/acv6.pdf]this reference plan (page 13).

Vladi wrote:
- info on her aircraft complement and units - so far I know about VMF-155 with F4Fs and VO-155 with SBDs. Dis she carry also Avengers at that time? What number of a/c per type?


She's not really included in the aircraft summaries for the time, but "[URL=http://www.amazon.com/Low-Ceiling-World-Pilots-Diary/dp/0533142822]Low Ceiling
" by R. L. (Dix) Loesch has this in the preface (page viii):

Quote:
On board the Nassau, there was one squadron of 24 pilots with 26 F4F Wildcat airplanes; three Marine pilots and three photographic F4Fs, and a SOC-3a aircraft.


Vladi wrote:
- although info on her camouflage in 1943 is missing at http://www.shipcamouflage.com/usn_cve.htm I believe she carried Ms 21 like most other ships in that timeframe


Most likely - Measure 14 is a possibility, but I haven't found anything yet that says either way.
Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:38 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Escort Carriers (CVE) fans  Reply with quote
Hi guys,
does anyone have any more detailed info about USS Nassau at the time of Attu invasion in 1943?
Specifically, I would need
- info on her AA guns configuration (preferably a drawing)
- info on her aircraft complement and units - so far I know about VMF-155 with F4Fs and VO-155 with SBDs. Dis she carry also Avengers at that time? What number of a/c per type?
- although info on her camouflage in 1943 is missing at http://www.shipcamouflage.com/usn_cve.htm I believe she carried Ms 21 like most other ships in that timeframe
Thanks!
Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:40 am

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