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Topic review - Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
DavidP wrote:
would likely be on the Focsle deck bow or the main deck stern where the 5" practice loader is.


Thank you David!
Post Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:34 pm
  Post subject:  WW2 US Navy 40mm Bofors practice loader  Reply with quote
Hello all. I am building a 1/350 model of the USS Lexington CV-16. One of my sources is Alan Raven's Essex Class Carriers book. On pg 94, a 40mm practice loader is depicted (attached). I can find nothing of this apparatus. Does anyone have any insights on this? Thank you.


Attachments:
40mm loader.jpg
40mm loader.jpg [ 2.33 MiB | Viewed 56157 times ]
Post Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:43 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
ModelMonkey wrote:
Mike W wrote:
I have the Dragon 1/700 USS Lexington kit and I'm aware that you can make any late war short hull Essex class from that kit. Has anyone done a rough guide to make USS Essex in 1944, when she had her Light Grey/Black camouflage scheme? It occurred to me that it might be fairly easy to work out things like her bofors and radar fit but might be a bit harder working out things like all the galleries and parts for the island etc.

thanks
Mike

Good news, Mike, your new 1/700 scale USS Essex CV-9 island as it appeared from May, 1944 through 1945 is ready. Link:
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... -1944-1945

References indicate that the island was in this configuration during raids on Okinawa and Formosa and during the Battle of Leyte Gulf.


Excellent!
Post Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:49 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
DougC wrote:
One can see the hangar deck catapult of the Yorktown in action in the movie "Wing and a Prayer".


Thanks - I hadn't heard of that movie before.

Wing and a Prayer, The Story of Carrier X

It's on Youtube and while I haven't found that scene yet, there is a neat little snippet showing sailors running around in the hangar overheads and ladders as well as a lot of other good footage in areas of interest.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:17 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
lexington1709 wrote:
Sutho wrote:
Has anyone else done that Pontos Advanced detail set for the Essex in WWII???

Great kit but poor instructions.

I have now constructed the island for 1943 with the quad bofor guns below the bridge but have the mast done for 1945!!!!

No clear indication in instruction what to do. Looks like some adjustments are necessary after all the hard work done.

It appears from photos that the lower catapults that were across the width of the ship in the hanger bay were removed.

I don't know what to do now. Retrofit the mast to 1943 or destruct the island and refit it to 1945.


What ship and time period?


It looks like I am doing USS Essex now in 1943.

I have to admit that Pontos detail up kit is great but also frustrating. One recent irritation is the deck masking to paint the stripes on the flight deck. The masking is not cut well and to get the deck numbers and lines you need a really sharp knife to cut the outline before applying it.

I did not have enough of my WEM paints to put the camo on. I could only do Navy blue. I am trying to keep my models in uniform paint and can no longer get they brand in Australia.
Post Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 6:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Obvious typo is obvious? :big_grin:
Post Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 6:08 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
One can see the hangar deck catapult of the Yorktown in action in the movie "Wing and a Prayer".
Post Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:22 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Sutho wrote:
It appears from photos that the lower catapults that were across the width of the ship in the hanger bay were removed.


Only six Essex class carriers were ever fitted with hangar-deck catapults; Yorktown, Intrepid, Hornet, Franklin, Bunker Hill, and Wasp. Essex herself had an earlier H2 catapult (as opposed to the H4s her sisters had) on the flight deck for the entire war and never had a hangar catapult.

CV-10 Yorktown had hers removed during her Aug-Nov 1944 overhaul at Puget Sound.
CV-11 Intrepid's was removed in March-June of 1944 at Hunters Point
CV-12 Hornet is a little squirrelier; it was removed in phases but the outboard sections at least by February 1945
CV-13 Franklin's was removed in November 1933 at Puget Sound
CV-17 Bunker Hill's was also removed in November 1933 at Puget Sound
CV-18 Wasp's was removed during her April-June 1945 overhaul and upgrade at Puget Sound.
Post Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:17 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
ModelMonkey wrote:
Mike W wrote:
I have the Dragon 1/700 USS Lexington kit and I'm aware that you can make any late war short hull Essex class from that kit. Has anyone done a rough guide to make USS Essex in 1944, when she had her Light Grey/Black camouflage scheme? It occurred to me that it might be fairly easy to work out things like her bofors and radar fit but might be a bit harder working out things like all the galleries and parts for the island etc.

thanks
Mike

Good news, Mike, your new 1/700 scale USS Essex CV-9 island as it appeared from May, 1944 through 1945 is ready. Link:
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... -1944-1945

References indicate that the island was in this configuration during raids on Okinawa and Formosa and during the Battle of Leyte Gulf.


Great work, Steve!
Post Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:48 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Mike W wrote:
I have the Dragon 1/700 USS Lexington kit and I'm aware that you can make any late war short hull Essex class from that kit. Has anyone done a rough guide to make USS Essex in 1944, when she had her Light Grey/Black camouflage scheme? It occurred to me that it might be fairly easy to work out things like her bofors and radar fit but might be a bit harder working out things like all the galleries and parts for the island etc.

thanks
Mike

Good news, Mike, your new 1/700 scale USS Essex CV-9 island as it appeared from May, 1944 through 1945 is ready. Link:
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... -1944-1945

References indicate that the island was in this configuration during raids on Okinawa and Formosa and during the Battle of Leyte Gulf.


Attachments:
CV-9 1944.04.15 020942b.jpg
CV-9 1944.04.15 020942b.jpg [ 171.72 KiB | Viewed 55807 times ]
1-700 Essex CV-9 Island 1944 b.jpg
1-700 Essex CV-9 Island 1944 b.jpg [ 139.34 KiB | Viewed 55807 times ]
1-700 Essex CV-9 Island 1944 a.jpg
1-700 Essex CV-9 Island 1944 a.jpg [ 113.31 KiB | Viewed 55807 times ]
1-700 Essex CV-9 Island 1944 c.jpg
1-700 Essex CV-9 Island 1944 c.jpg [ 125.4 KiB | Viewed 55807 times ]
Post Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:19 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Sutho wrote:
Has anyone else done that Pontos Advanced detail set for the Essex in WWII???

Great kit but poor instructions.

I have now constructed the island for 1943 with the quad bofor guns below the bridge but have the mast done for 1945!!!!

No clear indication in instruction what to do. Looks like some adjustments are necessary after all the hard work done.

It appears from photos that the lower catapults that were across the width of the ship in the hanger bay were removed.

I don't know what to do now. Retrofit the mast to 1943 or destruct the island and refit it to 1945.


What ship and time period?
Post Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:28 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Has anyone else done that Pontos Advanced detail set for the Essex in WWII???

Great kit but poor instructions.

I have now constructed the island for 1943 with the quad bofor guns below the bridge but have the mast done for 1945!!!!

No clear indication in instruction what to do. Looks like some adjustments are necessary after all the hard work done.

It appears from photos that the lower catapults that were across the width of the ship in the hanger bay were removed.

I don't know what to do now. Retrofit the mast to 1943 or destruct the island and refit it to 1945.
Post Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:11 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Mike W wrote:
I know Essex had a maximum of 11 quad Bofors. - snip -
I think there might have been 2 more on the port side where the hangar catapult was supposed to be and 2 more on the starboard quarter, at the hangar deck level. Hopefully I'm right about that.


You are - you can make out the mounts in this portside shot and this starboard shot, again on her Navsource page, although you can't easily tell details due to the afore-mentioned black paint. However, these were a fairly standardized configuration and other ships of the class are a good example once you know what to look for. There were two main configurations of the starboard aft quad 40MMs and these are what I call the early configuration. The later confoguration had a larger sponson that stuck out further so that the guns could be moved outboard for a better overhead firing arc. I don't think that any of the Dragon kits have this earlier configuration; I did a quick sample of the CV-9, 12, and 19 kits and they either don't have it (CV-9) or appear to have the later, larger sponson (CV-12 and 19). I don't want to volunteer Steve but maybe it's something there's a market for.

The port forward emplacements in the CV-16 kit and instructions (D46 & D49) should work for your build.
Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:06 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Tracy White wrote:
Mike W wrote:
That is a plan, I've bought some of his stuff before


OK, I've done a survey, and none of Steve's Essex Islands is quite right for the time frame. As a potential positive, neither is the Dragon CV-9 kit (It gives the fit for "as commissioned" but shows the dazzle scheme on the box art). There are some that come close, but none has just the right combination of pilothouse, revised platform over the flag bridge, stack platforms, etc.

My copy of the kit is buried and I'm sick and not going to be able to get to it for a bit, but I looked at the instructions on Hobby Search and will give you a start on the island. Since we know the forward quad 40mm was removed and the flag bridge enclosure expanded, the big details to look at here are the shape of the platform above that level, the shape of the pilothouse, and the platforms around the stack. Radar too, I'm just sticking with structure for now. Note that in this photo on CV-9's Navsource page, the flag bridge platform has a rather continuous curve around the front and no Mk 51 tub. It's hard to tell, but the pilot house is also rounded (as opposed to the squared-off trapezoid layout of some ships like Franklin) and the platform and splinter shields around it essentially follow the curve around the front of the flag bridge enclosure and then take a straight line back - other ships had a design that followed the flag bridge enclosure more and flared out further aft. I *think* that the Pilothouse level platform on the "G" tree (can't read the exact number) should be a good match for this level. I do not see a good match for the flag bridge level.

Random comments for now looking at the steps in the instructions:

Step 1 - Ignore the hangar deck catapult flippers and twin 20mm guns; Essex never had them.

Step 5 - ignore the dual quad 40mm parts on the stern (D47 & D48) and go with the single quad 40mm. I can't tell from the instructions, but there were two configurations of open 5" / Quad 40mm galleries (piece M6) and you want the one where the quad 40mm is slightly elevated above the deck level of the 5"/38 guns (might be the corresponding piece on the "C" tree).

Step 6 - the forward island piece M6 that provides the flag plot enclosure is the one I mentioned above that flares out further aft than Essex's did - I think you want the corresponding piece on the "G" tree. M5 doesn't have the correct forward shape and I'm not sure how you want to handle it - if you're OK with building curved splinter shields in sheet styrene it should be fairly easy to whack off and reconstruct. The small 20mm galleries with the Mk52 tub P1 aren't correct - the Mk 51s there were for the quad 40mms that were mounted below in later fits. I'm not sure what the corresponding piece is in that case but I'm guessing "D" or "G" tree (running out of steam but you might look at the CV-9 kit).

Step 7 - you're going to want to stick with the radio tower aerials and not go with the whip aerials aft. 20mms...... I'm going to say "let me look at that later" but I'd start by saying only single 20mm mounts and the photos on Navsource should be a good place to start.


That's some good info to start with. Luckily the Dragon Essex kit's instructions are on scalemates, so I can see where the two kits differ. I now which parts to use for the quad bofors on the stern and the 20mm galleries on the starboard side of the island. The instructions for the Essex show parts E1 and E4 for the forward bridge platforms you mention and the Lexington instructions say to use M1 and M5. The parts on the G sprue are 1 and 2. I think G2 would work best, once the tub for the Mk51 director has been removed. The platform above that, I can't make up my mind on which to use. E1 and G1 are almost identical and have a small bulge on the portside, which looks like it's there for a piece of equipment, like a searchlight, signal light or lookout's binocular's etc but M1 doesn't have that feature. I can't make it out on the photo as the Black camouflage makes it difficult to see the details.

After that, it's a case of working out the Bofors and Oerlikon fit. I know Essex had a maximum of 11 quad Bofors. For sure I know there was 1 each on the stern and bow, 3 on the island and 1 on each single 5in gallery. I think there might have been 2 more on the port side where the hangar catapult was supposed to be and 2 more on the starboard quarter, at the hangar deck level. Hopefully I'm right about that. The Essex kit instructions say 53 single Oerlikons and obviously where they were but I don't know if that changed in the 44 refit.

thanks
Mike
Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:24 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Mike W wrote:
That is a plan, I've bought some of his stuff before


OK, I've done a survey, and none of Steve's Essex Islands is quite right for the time frame. As a potential positive, neither is the Dragon CV-9 kit (It gives the fit for "as commissioned" but shows the dazzle scheme on the box art). There are some that come close, but none has just the right combination of pilothouse, revised platform over the flag bridge, stack platforms, etc.

My copy of the kit is buried and I'm sick and not going to be able to get to it for a bit, but I looked at the instructions on Hobby Search and will give you a start on the island. Since we know the forward quad 40mm was removed and the flag bridge enclosure expanded, the big details to look at here are the shape of the platform above that level, the shape of the pilothouse, and the platforms around the stack. Radar too, I'm just sticking with structure for now. Note that in this photo on CV-9's Navsource page, the flag bridge platform has a rather continuous curve around the front and no Mk 51 tub. It's hard to tell, but the pilot house is also rounded (as opposed to the squared-off trapezoid layout of some ships like Franklin) and the platform and splinter shields around it essentially follow the curve around the front of the flag bridge enclosure and then take a straight line back - other ships had a design that followed the flag bridge enclosure more and flared out further aft. I *think* that the Pilothouse level platform on the "G" tree (can't read the exact number) should be a good match for this level. I do not see a good match for the flag bridge level.

Random comments for now looking at the steps in the instructions:

Step 1 - Ignore the hangar deck catapult flippers and twin 20mm guns; Essex never had them.

Step 5 - ignore the dual quad 40mm parts on the stern (D47 & D48) and go with the single quad 40mm. I can't tell from the instructions, but there were two configurations of open 5" / Quad 40mm galleries (piece M6) and you want the one where the quad 40mm is slightly elevated above the deck level of the 5"/38 guns (might be the corresponding piece on the "C" tree).

Step 6 - the forward island piece M6 that provides the flag plot enclosure is the one I mentioned above that flares out further aft than Essex's did - I think you want the corresponding piece on the "G" tree. M5 doesn't have the correct forward shape and I'm not sure how you want to handle it - if you're OK with building curved splinter shields in sheet styrene it should be fairly easy to whack off and reconstruct. The small 20mm galleries with the Mk52 tub P1 aren't correct - the Mk 51s there were for the quad 40mms that were mounted below in later fits. I'm not sure what the corresponding piece is in that case but I'm guessing "D" or "G" tree (running out of steam but you might look at the CV-9 kit).

Step 7 - you're going to want to stick with the radio tower aerials and not go with the whip aerials aft. 20mms...... I'm going to say "let me look at that later" but I'd start by saying only single 20mm mounts and the photos on Navsource should be a good place to start.
Post Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:58 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Tracy White wrote:
I've got the kit and should be able to do that for you; however I'm traveling today and not in a good position to do it.

In the interest in keeping this thread short, if no one beats me to it before, say, tomorrow evening, I'll edit this post and then PM you the link as a notification.


Did you get a chance at all to look at the Essex for me?

thanks
Mike
Post Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:23 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
lexington1709 wrote:
Mike W wrote:
I have the Dragon 1/700 USS Lexington kit and I'm aware that you can make any late war short hull Essex class from that kit. Has anyone done a rough guide to make USS Essex in 1944, when she had her Light Grey/Black camouflage scheme? It occurred to me that it might be fairly easy to work out things like her bofors and radar fit but might be a bit harder working out things like all the galleries and parts for the island etc.

thanks
Mike


I built this kit as the Lexington (and have 2 more in my stash... they are not easy to come by) and this kit would easily cover the Essex in 1944. My biggest suggestion is to get a Model Monkey island (the kit's island is good but his are a lot better and more accurate) so as to not to worry too much on the island (https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... april-1944). And Steve is very good to work with; if you e-mail him, he can help you further.

The main thing is the radar rigs... they were fitted almost uniquely to each carrier. You may want to try to narrow down what month in 1944 you're wanting and then see about getting photos and plans. Raven's book is a great resource and may already have the information you need.


That is a plan, I've bought some of his stuff before
Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:58 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Mike W wrote:
I have the Dragon 1/700 USS Lexington kit and I'm aware that you can make any late war short hull Essex class from that kit. Has anyone done a rough guide to make USS Essex in 1944, when she had her Light Grey/Black camouflage scheme? It occurred to me that it might be fairly easy to work out things like her bofors and radar fit but might be a bit harder working out things like all the galleries and parts for the island etc.

thanks
Mike


I built this kit as the Lexington (and have 2 more in my stash... they are not easy to come by) and this kit would easily cover the Essex in 1944. My biggest suggestion is to get a Model Monkey island (the kit's island is good but his are a lot better and more accurate) so as to not to worry too much on the island (https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... april-1944). And Steve is very good to work with; if you e-mail him, he can help you further.

The main thing is the radar rigs... they were fitted almost uniquely to each carrier. You may want to try to narrow down what month in 1944 you're wanting and then see about getting photos and plans. Raven's book is a great resource and may already have the information you need.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:05 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
Tracy White wrote:
I've got the kit and should be able to do that for you; however I'm traveling today and not in a good position to do it.

In the interest in keeping this thread short, if no one beats me to it before, say, tomorrow evening, I'll edit this post and then PM you the link as a notification.


thanks!
Post Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:41 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all WWII Essex Class Carrier Fans!  Reply with quote
I've got the kit and should be able to do that for you; however I'm traveling today and not in a good position to do it.

In the interest in keeping this thread short, if no one beats me to it before, say, tomorrow evening, I'll edit this post and then PM you the link as a notification.
Post Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:36 pm

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