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Topic review - Calling all IJN Mikasa fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Here's a goldmine of detail photos of Mikasa taken in 2019 in Japan, 350 photos that can help.

Google Drive link:

Select all the photos in the page, then click on download at the top, you will get a ZIP archive file, to unzip. Be patient, there are a lot of HD photos.

Thanks to Jeff, an American foromeur from California, who provided these photos, taken by one of his colleagues with his permission.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... Rf9Yg0mFOX

Here is also the direct download link, available for one week only on WeTransfer:

https://we.tl/t-ZHNGniIOFw

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:30 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Mikasa (三笠) is a pre-dreadnought battleship built for the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) in the late 1890s, and is the only ship of its class.

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Named after Mount Mikasa in Nara, Japan, the ship served as Vice Admiral Tōgō Heihachirō's flagship throughout the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905, including the Battle of Port Arthur on the second day of the war and the Battles of the Yellow Sea and Tsushima.

A few days after the end of the war, the Mikasa's magazine accidentally exploded and sank the ship. The ship was salvaged and repairs took over two years. The ship subsequently served as a coastal defence vessel during the First World War and supported Japanese forces during the intervention in Siberia during the Russian Civil War.

After 1922, Mikasa was decommissioned in accordance with the Washington Naval Treaty and preserved as a museum ship at Yokosuka. She was badly neglected during the occupation of Japan after the Second World War and had to be refurbished in the late 1950s.

It was partially restored and is now a museum ship located in Mikasa Park in Yokosuka. Mikasa is the world's last surviving example of a pre-dreadnought battleship and the last surviving example of a British-built battleship.

more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_ ... hip_Mikasa

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Shipyard Vickers, United Kingdom
Vickers shipyard, Barrow-in-Furness
Ordered 1898
Keel laid 24 January 1899
Launched on 8 November 1900
Armed in March 1902

https://www.kinenkan-mikasa.or.jp/en/mikasa/index.html

HIJMS MIKASA was the 6th battleship ordered to be built in England.

This photo shows the launch of HIJMS MIKASA at Vickers shipyard.
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Technical specifications:

Machinery: 25 Belleville boilers, two triple expansion vertical steam engines (VTE)
Coal: 700 tonnes (standard load); 1,521 tonnes (full load)
Length: 432 feet
Beam: 76 feet
Draught: 27 feet
Standard displacement: 15,140 tonnes
Speed: 18 knots
Maximum range: 7,000 miles at 10 knots with a standard load
Crew: 830
Armour: Krupp cement armour (4 to 9 inch main belt)
Armament: Four 12-inch guns, 14 6-inch guns, 20 12-pounder guns, eight 3-pounder guns and four 2.5-pounder guns; four 18-inch submerged torpedo tubes.

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Built by Vickers at Barrow-in-Furness, England, on 24 January 1899, launched on 8 November 1900 and commissioned on 1 March 1902, Mikasa was the last of six modern battleships ordered from Great Britain by the Imperial Japanese Navy. While her five predecessors were protected by Harvey-type nickel-steel armour, Mikasa had the very latest cemented steel armour from Krupp. On each of the six battleships, the Japanese concentrated the armour along the starboard and port main belts, in the gun turrets and forward lookout tower, rather than in the entire hull, as the Russians did on their warships, giving them a 2 knot speed advantage. However, the armour was only 4 inches thick at each end, making the Japanese battleships vulnerable to mines. This is what led Hatsuse and Yashima to run into the Russian naval base at Port Arthur, China, on 15 May 1904, during the Russo-Japanese War.

Although the Russian battleships were outnumbered and outgunned, Admiral Heihachiro Togo (who made Mikasa his flagship) and his officers trained their armoured cruisers to operate at 3 miles or less in order to use all their guns. They held their ground in the Battle of the Yellow Sea on 10 August 1904, although Mikasa and Asahi were damaged. The Japanese line proved devastating against Vice-Admiral Zinovy Rozhestvensky's poorly organised and trained squadrons in the Tsushima Strait on 27 and 28 May 1905.

On the night of 11 to 12 September, a week after the signing of the Treaty of Portsmouth that officially ended the war, the Mikasa caught fire, exploded and sank at her moorings, killing 251 of her crew. Restored and repaired, she served throughout the First World War and supported the post-war intervention in Siberia. Decommissioned in 1923, she was preserved as a war relic and survived the Allied bombing raids of 1945. Although the Soviet Union wanted to destroy it, US Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz, an admirer of the Togo, supported the restoration of the Mikasa. In 1961, the historic pre-dreadnought battleship reopened as a museum ship in Yokosuka, where it remains to this day.

A link to an interesting Japanese site with quality photos:

http://www.sakanouenokumo.com/kikaku/mikasa_phot.htm

Collection of photos of the battleship Mikasa:

Battleship Mikasa when finished (Click to see extra-large image)
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Battleship Mikasa when finished (2)
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The battleship Mikasa before the battle of Tsushima
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Battleship Mikasa immediately after the Battle of Tsushima
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Mikasa museum ship before the war
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And a few extras:

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Battleship IJN Mikasa
Date: 7-8 August 1906
Location: Inside the port of Sasebo
Photo: Sasebo Arsenal
Location: Floating work in progress after the explosion accident

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 6:11 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Ady wrote:
Am I right in thinking that I'd be better using RN antifouling red rather than IJN red?


Just red mixed with some dark yellow (dunkelgelb, like on german WW2 armour) is what I used, closer to RN result, and sprayed with very thin layer of gray to lighten it up (1/9 diluted with spirit). I dont know what is IJN hull red, becuase Tamiy has this dark brick red color and you think THATS it and then there is a an aircraft carrier half sunk after WW2 and it has color photos... and hull is red. I think this brick red dark color is wrong. Use red.

Now, on as Im back building my Mikasa, here is the result of reading all this thread and researching the web so far for Victorian paint scheme. Take it for what it is, an opinion. But I think here Im making 2 assumptions: this was a ship that looked british when build and delivered, and then repainted by Japan. Its ok if it looks a bit Victorian for all intents and purposes. And colors for that period all must be scaled to account for paint quality of those days. Antifouling included (it would be weaker than more modern equivalents).

1) Black for hull - it is a nato black (not pitch black) paint, that will be washed-diluted with navy blues and dark browns. There was no super black paint back then. Blue is sea reflection, black is dirt/coal and rust all mixed in.
2) White on superstructures - there was no brilliant white paint then also, and for scale it wont be light gray necessarily. The white that was used in those days was slightly creamy color. So dirty off white makes more sense. So if you wanna do the white color correctly - diluted with bit of dark yellow-gray mix, not just go monochrome. Makes more sense for 1/200 and 1/350 but mine below is also done this way. Light gray with black is wrong, IMHO.
3) Masts - black-white(or ochre) mixture in early days like 1902, as launched, and black all on 1904. Easy.
4) Ventilators inside - Id do red in 1902 and black in 1904. Why not. Red is nicer for contrast and in Victorian spirit, so to say.
5) Antifouling red - royal navy kind - reddish-brown but not too bright like American, not too brown like German. Not dark brown red like Tamiya Hull Red which is best to be used on German hulls as a filter only (diluted 1/9). I do XF7+XF10+XF60 and mix my own, with XF7 dominating, like 3:1:1 and spray with diluted light gray for wear and may be also spray diluted orange if you like - that also seems to correct things nicely and blends in your rust streaks and panel lines etc.
6) I would consider adding some panel lines on the hull in this scale with very thin brush strokes in few areas just to give the ship a little more volume, though it will look overscale perhaps. :)

Here is my little Mikasa in 1/700 WIP!


Attachments:
File comment: Workin in Progress. Will replace mast tops and funnel tops with brass...
IMG_0345mmmm.jpg
IMG_0345mmmm.jpg [ 333.76 KiB | Viewed 10005 times ]
Post Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:55 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
I'm building the hobby boss 1/200 Mikasa 1902 in her Victorian livery. Am I right in thinking that I'd be better using RN antifouling red rather than IJN red?
Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:51 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
You should never take the present day Mikasa as a source of any information about its Russo-Japanese War appearance. Lighter color is the way to go.
Post Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:28 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Do we know color of the deck of Mikasa in 1902? Japanese ships tended to have this much lighter yellower color but today Mikasa is as expected with an all gray bleached out by the sun deck. How was in in 1902? It was built in England so if Im making a new ship, what should I aim for? Anything to watch out?
Post Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:46 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Timmy C wrote:
What do you mean by "hybrid", Billy? What you've described IS the Victorian scheme that's been discussed in this thread. If you mean the call for light grey instead of white, then that could just be (as I did) an attempt to account for scale effect - pure white in 1/700 or 1/350 scales are a bit glaring, not to mention being a pain to paint. It could also be that the real life colour was indeed a light grey, but it's always been referred to as white in the discussions here for ease of description (light grey next to black does appear, after all, white).

Hasegawa's latest 1/700 Victorian scheme kit further subdivides into two different schemes - black versus white/light grey masts: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10460323/40/1
I would ignore the two-tone appearance of the hull in the upper scheme - it looks like a scanning or printing error since it doesn't call for separate colours.


Thanks Timmy, I think you're right- manufacturers such as Seals Models give a light grey colour (equivalent to the same "gull gray" the US Navy painted it's carrier aircraft in the 60s!) for the parts I would expect to be pure white. I guess they're just trying to tone down a very stark black/white scheme on a small scale model. It's a bit misleading though- I prefer the colour call outs to be the 'real' colour- I can then make a modellers decision to lighten,darken, change tone as I see fit!

Cheers!

Will
Post Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:26 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
What do you mean by "hybrid", Billy? What you've described IS the Victorian scheme that's been discussed in this thread. If you mean the call for light grey instead of white, then that could just be (as I did) an attempt to account for scale effect - pure white in 1/700 or 1/350 scales are a bit glaring, not to mention being a pain to paint. It could also be that the real life colour was indeed a light grey, but it's always been referred to as white in the discussions here for ease of description (light grey next to black does appear, after all, white).

Hasegawa's latest 1/700 Victorian scheme kit further subdivides into two different schemes - black versus white/light grey masts: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10460323/40/1
I would ignore the two-tone appearance of the hull in the upper scheme - it looks like a scanning or printing error since it doesn't call for separate colours.
Post Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:24 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Hi all,

While we are talking about 'Victorian' scheme on Mikasa, I notice there are a lot Mikasa models online that have been painted in a curious sort of hybrid scheme

Lower hull: Black
Superstructure: light grey
Funnels: black + white bands.

Some manufacturers such as Seals Models even include this odd scheme in their painting instructions (e.g. Cruiser Iwate kit asks you to paint the upper works in an equivalent to US Navy Light Gull Grey!)

Does it have any basis in reality?
Post Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:52 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
pascalemod wrote:
Timmy C wrote:
To be honest, I never encountered the ochre mast option until the Hobby Boss 1/200 paint guide you posted came out. I don't think it was an option we discussed in this thread till now, even. I would trust the Hasegawa paint scheme more than the Hobby Boss one: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10460323

Also, here's the actual Hasegawa 1/350 paint guide for the Victorian scheme - as you can see, it's consistent with the newer 1/700 model's white masts:


Where did you find the 1/350 Hasegawa guide? Is there a PDF? Struggling a bit with painting instructions of details on deck for example etc. I searched a lot but cant find a PDF of the victorian scheme in 1/700 or 1/350 in good detail...


Yup, right here: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10045599
Post Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:04 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Thanks. I take it the 1/350 Victorian pre-war scheme in suspect?
Post Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Felix C wrote:
Difference in the Mikasa 1/350 kits tsushima and yellow sea battle versions?

I mean just a quick difference. Is it mostly extra ventilators and different masts?


I have 1/700 which offers to build 2 versions: Yellow Sea and Tsushima.

Difference as far as I can tell:
Yellow Sea:
Masts with gun platforms
Ventilators
secondary guns have shields (sorry cant tell calibre, im not so into rivet counting YET on it)

Japan Sea - Tsushima:
Masts lack platforms and have different layout
Ventilators are covered in some areas
extra guns on bridges, and no gun shields

Victorian:
as Yellow Sea + launches on the stern (4x) and different paint job as per reference above


Still looking for Victorian paint scheme instructions if anyone has them! :big_grin:
Post Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Difference in the Mikasa 1/350 kits tsushima and yellow sea battle versions?

I mean just a quick difference. Is it mostly extra ventilators and different masts?
Post Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:54 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Timmy C wrote:
To be honest, I never encountered the ochre mast option until the Hobby Boss 1/200 paint guide you posted came out. I don't think it was an option we discussed in this thread till now, even. I would trust the Hasegawa paint scheme more than the Hobby Boss one: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10460323

Also, here's the actual Hasegawa 1/350 paint guide for the Victorian scheme - as you can see, it's consistent with the newer 1/700 model's white masts:


Where did you find the 1/350 Hasegawa guide? Is there a PDF? Struggling a bit with painting instructions of details on deck for example etc. I searched a lot but cant find a PDF of the victorian scheme in 1/700 or 1/350 in good detail...
Post Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:38 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
To be honest, I never encountered the ochre mast option until the Hobby Boss 1/200 paint guide you posted came out. I don't think it was an option we discussed in this thread till now, even. I would trust the Hasegawa paint scheme more than the Hobby Boss one: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10460323

Also, here's the actual Hasegawa 1/350 paint guide for the Victorian scheme - as you can see, it's consistent with the newer 1/700 model's white masts:


Attachments:
hase mikasa prewar.jpg
hase mikasa prewar.jpg [ 116.58 KiB | Viewed 10825 times ]
Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:52 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
biggles2 wrote:
I think the black/white/ochre (buff) color scheme was pretty general throughout most navies in late 19th century/early 20th.
:wave_1:


So, Japan not exception and OK to paint Mikasa masts ochre?
Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:54 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
I think the black/white/ochre (buff) color scheme was pretty general throughout most navies in late 19th century/early 20th.
:wave_1:
Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:13 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
More questions on the Victorian colors as you model them in 1/700.

This is Hasegawas 1/350 interpretations that has masts in ochre color after platforms, funnels and hull in black (but gray color in pic, so I assume this scheme might be wrong).

I like this paint scheme - looks good if I replaced gray to black but leave all else unchanged. Any issues? Ochre masts are very cool but I dont see this in your notes so let me know if its OK to do ochre or this is totally wrong historically.

Here is my source: http://www.wtj.com/store/index_paint_gu ... paint.html

Quote:
Predreadnought Ship Colors by Nationality Japan
Peacetime: Black hull, funnels and ventilators with white upperworks and turrets. Masts would be black or have black bases and ochre tops. One to three white I.D. bands around upper 1/3 of funnels.


Attachments:
12996_3.jpg
12996_3.jpg [ 92.78 KiB | Viewed 4729 times ]
Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:58 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Timmy C wrote:
Yes, Victorian paint scheme refers to the black and white scheme. In short, yes, the Yellow Sea configuration will be accurate for some part of Mikasa's life when she wore the Victorian scheme.

Cowls are the ventilators next to the funnels on the secondary guns deck. They're the ones you add in Step 8 of your kit. Choose option 2 for Yellow Sea and earlier configuration, and Option 1 for Japan Sea.

Hasegawa did a pretty good job in highlighting the decision points throughout the 1/700 kit instructions - every time you see a choice, that's where the major differences are for Yellow Sea/Victorian versus Japan Sea configurations. It seems that they're consistent in making all Option 2 parts apply to the Yellow Sea/Victorian configuration - steps where these options are raised include Steps 2, 5, 8, 13, and 14.

Note also there are some parts with a 1 and a "Only" written above it - the 1 refers to option/configuration 1 as noted in the painting guide sheet.


Aha! SO basically in the Yellow Sea config the ship is totally OK to build as Victorian color. this makes me stupidly happy as FINALLY im gonna grow my collection to something I always wanted. Thank you for the low down.

My only wish was that Mikasa was moddable into sth like HMS Duncan or Canopus or Formidable - alas everywhere it seems its not possible. MIght be easier to buy cash the lower hull myself and buy me a ComBrig kit of some victorian era RN battleship. :S tempting.
Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:36 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Mikasa fans  Reply with quote
Yes, Victorian paint scheme refers to the black and white scheme. In short, yes, the Yellow Sea configuration will be accurate for some part of Mikasa's life when she wore the Victorian scheme.

Cowls are the ventilators next to the funnels on the secondary guns deck. They're the ones you add in Step 8 of your kit. Choose option 2 for Yellow Sea and earlier configuration, and Option 1 for Japan Sea.

Hasegawa did a pretty good job in highlighting the decision points throughout the 1/700 kit instructions - every time you see a choice, that's where the major differences are for Yellow Sea/Victorian versus Japan Sea configurations. It seems that they're consistent in making all Option 2 parts apply to the Yellow Sea/Victorian configuration - steps where these options are raised include Steps 2, 5, 8, 13, and 14.

Note also there are some parts with a 1 and a "Only" written above it - the 1 refers to option/configuration 1 as noted in the painting guide sheet.
Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:43 am

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