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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Guy who lived across the street when I was a kid served on the "Pensatucky" during the war. Of course the veterans never talked about it then, too soon.
Guy who lived across the street when I was a kid served on the "Pensatucky" during the war. Of course the veterans never talked about it then, too soon.
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Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 2:38 am |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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It helped as I've seen the platform for the loaders which seems to be the same as the mark 19 mounting. Thanks!
Did other ships used this shielded 5"/25 mounting?
It helped as I've seen the platform for the loaders which seems to be the same as the mark 19 mounting. Thanks!
Did other ships used this shielded 5"/25 mounting?
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:43 am |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Tzoli - Here are croppings of several photos in the same series as your above posted photo - all showing the 5"/25 mount shields as of 1942 - Attachment:
1020-42 Blow up.JPG [ 16.34 KiB | Viewed 44742 times ]
Attachment:
1028-42 Blow up.JPG [ 50.37 KiB | Viewed 44742 times ]
Attachment:
1124-42 Blow up.JPG [ 32.65 KiB | Viewed 44742 times ]
All are stbd side mounts. Hope this helps,
Tzoli - Here are croppings of several photos in the same series as your above posted photo - all showing the 5"/25 mount shields as of 1942 - [attachment=2]1020-42 Blow up.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=1]1028-42 Blow up.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=0]1124-42 Blow up.JPG[/attachment]
All are stbd side mounts.
Hope this helps,
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 12:19 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Does anybody have different views or models or even drawings of the 5"/25 Mark 10 guns Shielded mountings which was used on the Pennsylvania and likely other warships in around 1942? These mounting looks very similar to that of the IJN's 12cm/45 Type 10 single shielded mountings http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_47-45_10ns.php
Does anybody have different views or models or even drawings of the 5"/25 Mark 10 guns Shielded mountings which was used on the Pennsylvania and likely other warships in around 1942?
[img]https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/19-N-28000/19-N-28413/_jcr_content/mediaitem/image.img.jpg/1459904168582.jpg[/img]
These mounting looks very similar to that of the IJN's 12cm/45 Type 10 single shielded mountings http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_47-45_10ns.php
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 7:29 am |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Wow, no wonder it didn't match the square on the line drawing, it was practice loaders! Ugh.... thanks so much!
Wow, no wonder it didn't match the square on the line drawing, it was practice loaders! Ugh.... thanks so much!
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:20 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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The "loading machines" under tarps are just a pair of 5" practice loaders mounted side by side, spaced as the real weapons would be inside a 5"/38 Mk.32 twin-gun mount. On many ships, an outline of the mount was painted on the deck in white. The photo below shows a single practice loader as it appears on museum ship USS Kidd DD-661. Attachment:
661kidd 11.jpg [ 43.22 KiB | Viewed 45445 times ]
The radar equipment under the tarp is a Mk.57 director. In the photo of the USS Missouri builder's model below, a Mk.57 director is circled in red. See also: http://shipbucket.com/wiki/index.php/Mk_57_GFCSHere's a training film for the Mk.57 showing it in detail and in operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_HUZSk8c2cHope this helps.
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1-48 BB-63 Builders Model 05a comment.jpg [ 192.05 KiB | Viewed 45445 times ]
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The "loading machines" under tarps are just a pair of 5" practice loaders mounted side by side, spaced as the real weapons would be inside a 5"/38 Mk.32 twin-gun mount. On many ships, an outline of the mount was painted on the deck in white. The photo below shows a single practice loader as it appears on museum ship USS [i]Kidd[/i] DD-661.
[attachment=0]661kidd 11.jpg[/attachment]
The radar equipment under the tarp is a Mk.57 director. In the photo of the USS [i]Missouri[/i] builder's model below, a Mk.57 director is circled in red. See also: http://shipbucket.com/wiki/index.php/Mk_57_GFCS
Here's a training film for the Mk.57 showing it in detail and in operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_HUZSk8c2c
Hope this helps.
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:45 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Hey folks, Missing a couple of details on my Pennsy '45. Wondering if anyone has images of the kind of equipment circled? Can *sort of* make out some of it on the photographs but not enough to scratch build with confidence.
Hey folks, Missing a couple of details on my Pennsy '45. Wondering if anyone has images of the kind of equipment circled? Can *sort of* make out some of it on the photographs but not enough to scratch build with confidence.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/RAdtlb3.jpg[/img] [img]https://i.imgur.com/Vw7WZvG.jpg[/img] [img]https://i.imgur.com/5D2Ib11.jpg[/img]
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:14 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Timmy, believe it or not, but this is one of the original transparencies that I scanned at NARA and then provided to the Photographic Collections Branch staff. NARA staff has been posting some of them online, but NOT using my notes ID'ing ships in the view and in some cases correcting dates. Some of the original captions are way off for the original transparencies. NARA has been assigning new ID numbers to these images, rather than using the original 80-GK image numbers. It makes it a pain to search for them and when you have a listing of all the 80-GK images, they aren't in order. This image is 80-GK-1026, a 5x7-in transparency. The aircraft transport, is USS KITTY HAWK (AVP-1). Based on movements of the ships in the photo, where USS NEW MEXICO and her sisters arrived at San Francisco on 31 January 1942, this photo was likely taken after 25 February 1942 when USS KITTY HAWK arrived at San Francisco from Pearl Harbor and could have been taken in March. From USS PENNSYLVANIA's Deck Logs, she was in dry dock at Hunters Point 1-12 January 1942 and moored portside at Pier 7 during the balance of January and into February 1942. This is my crop of this image I posted sometime ago;
Timmy, believe it or not, but this is one of the original transparencies that I scanned at NARA and then provided to the Photographic Collections Branch staff. NARA staff has been posting some of them online, but NOT using my notes ID'ing ships in the view and in some cases correcting dates. Some of the original captions are way off for the original transparencies. NARA has been assigning new ID numbers to these images, rather than using the original 80-GK image numbers. It makes it a pain to search for them and when you have a listing of all the 80-GK images, they aren't in order. This image is 80-GK-1026, a 5x7-in transparency.
The aircraft transport, is USS KITTY HAWK (AVP-1). Based on movements of the ships in the photo, where USS NEW MEXICO and her sisters arrived at San Francisco on 31 January 1942, this photo was likely taken after 25 February 1942 when USS KITTY HAWK arrived at San Francisco from Pearl Harbor and could have been taken in March. From USS PENNSYLVANIA's Deck Logs, she was in dry dock at Hunters Point 1-12 January 1942 and moored portside at Pier 7 during the balance of January and into February 1942. This is my crop of this image I posted sometime ago;
[url=https://app.photobucket.com/u/TincanREDavis/a/0ce50924-0031-45f3-8823-66214c56ffd8/p/3ede137f-25f5-4998-a0ff-a9e4df22b231][img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/p303/TincanREDavis/TincanREDavis001/.highres/z80GK-01026crop-SF-10Feb42_zpsluzpgcq4.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img][/url]
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:10 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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An amazing colour photo showing Pennsy (and New Mex) on the San Fran waterfront in February 1942, from NARA: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/178141068(attached version is cropped from the original in the above link)
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80-GK-1026 cropped.jpg [ 1.47 MiB | Viewed 45520 times ]
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An amazing colour photo showing Pennsy (and New Mex) on the San Fran waterfront in February 1942, from NARA: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/178141068
(attached version is cropped from the original in the above link)
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:22 am |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Yes, your guess is accurate.
Yes, your guess is accurate.
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:06 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Great photos, many, many thanks. This will help build my Pennsy.
Great photos, many, many thanks. This will help build my Pennsy. :good_job:
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:46 am |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Well they are definitely Canvas covered, Perhaps some shipboard modification done to give lookouts a better field of view? Seems like she had them just around mid-late 44' Attachment:
Penn 10-44.JPG [ 53.07 KiB | Viewed 45788 times ]
Matt
Well they are definitely Canvas covered, Perhaps some shipboard modification done to give lookouts a better field of view? Seems like she had them just around mid-late 44' [attachment=0]Penn 10-44.JPG[/attachment]
Matt
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:46 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Well, yes slightly different. Looks like "maybe" a section of deck was added on each side and the railing turned in from the forward edge. But, in this June 1946 view, it doesn't look like an extension exists. I have to wonder if only the aft section of the railing has canvas added? Attachment:
zBB38x75crop-15Jun46.jpg [ 92.32 KiB | Viewed 45792 times ]
Well, yes slightly different. Looks like "maybe" a section of deck was added on each side and the railing turned in from the forward edge. But, in this June 1946 view, it doesn't look like an extension exists. I have to wonder if only the aft section of the railing has canvas added?
[attachment=0]zBB38x75crop-15Jun46.jpg[/attachment]
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:11 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Those railings go back at an angle, but the items shown in the initial photos are a different shape and begin slightly further back.
Those railings go back at an angle, but the items shown in the initial photos are a different shape and begin slightly further back.
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:21 am |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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You do realized that the "platform" you are discussing is what remained of the lowest level deck of the "Fighting Top" after it was cutback during modernization. This May 1943 image shows the shape of the railing at that level. The "former" searchlight platform was converted to a 20-mm gun gallery. Attachment:
zBB38x41crop-11May43.jpg [ 119.48 KiB | Viewed 45844 times ]
Putting canvas on railings was an "option" by the crew/CO. Just because canvas shows in some photos and not others does say much. As canvas wore, it was removed and/or replaced. Also, in yard photos may show the canvas removed and had yet to be replaced. For some destroyers, as a weight saving the USN replaced solid bulwarks with railings. Some crews used canvas on these railings and in places like atop the pilothouse.
You do realized that the "platform" you are discussing is what remained of the lowest level deck of the "Fighting Top" after it was cutback during modernization. This May 1943 image shows the shape of the railing at that level. The "former" searchlight platform was converted to a 20-mm gun gallery.
[attachment=0]zBB38x41crop-11May43.jpg[/attachment]
Putting canvas on railings was an "option" by the crew/CO. Just because canvas shows in some photos and not others does say much. As canvas wore, it was removed and/or replaced. Also, in yard photos may show the canvas removed and had yet to be replaced. For some destroyers, as a weight saving the USN replaced solid bulwarks with railings. Some crews used canvas on these railings and in places like atop the pilothouse.
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:12 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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ArmchairAdmiral wrote: I recently picked up the Dragon 1/700 1945 Pennsylvania, and after studying photos, I'm curious about something. What are the two little structures at the base of the fire control top as shown in the first two pics? They are not on the model and not there in the third pic (and most others I've seen.) I just realized there is a Sailor sitting on top of one of them in the second pic.
[quote="ArmchairAdmiral"]I recently picked up the Dragon 1/700 1945 Pennsylvania, and after studying photos, I'm curious about something. What are the two little structures at the base of the fire control top as shown in the first two pics? They are not on the model and not there in the third pic (and most others I've seen.)[/quote] I just realized there is a Sailor sitting on top of one of them in the second pic.
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:32 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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A few more. I believe these were also 1943 Attachment:
80G453938255-crop.jpg [ 128.58 KiB | Viewed 12493 times ]
Attachment:
80G453937254_crop.jpg [ 56.1 KiB | Viewed 12493 times ]
A few more. I believe these were also 1943 [attachment=1]80G453938255-crop.jpg[/attachment] [attachment=0]80G453937254_crop.jpg[/attachment]
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:01 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Here's that spot in January 1943, just for an idea for some of the details. Maybe that was a platform added later on? Attachment:
BB38_19LCM-BB38-4.jpg [ 120.03 KiB | Viewed 12495 times ]
Here's that spot in January 1943, just for an idea for some of the details. Maybe that was a platform added later on? [attachment=0]BB38_19LCM-BB38-4.jpg[/attachment]
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:49 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Tracy White wrote: Kind of looks like a platform with railings - top two photos could have canvas dodgers on the railings. If so, it's sort of odd that the coverings only show up in photos taken in late 1944. Not before, not after. I'm debating about whether or not to model them, as for the longest time the late '44 pics were all that I'd ever seen, and I got used to them being there. But now that I know they were a brief aberration, I'm not sure what to do.
[quote="Tracy White"]Kind of looks like a platform with railings - top two photos could have canvas dodgers on the railings.[/quote]
If so, it's sort of odd that the coverings only show up in photos taken in late 1944. Not before, not after.
I'm debating about whether or not to model them, as for the longest time the late '44 pics were all that I'd ever seen, and I got used to them being there. But now that I know they were a brief aberration, I'm not sure what to do.
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:18 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 Fans |
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Kind of looks like a platform with railings - top two photos could have canvas dodgers on the railings.
Kind of looks like a platform with railings - top two photos could have canvas dodgers on the railings.
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:19 am |
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