The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:57 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post a reply
Post icon:
None
Username:
Subject:
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 60000 characters. 

Font size:
Font colour
Options:
BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Disable BBCode
Do not automatically parse URLs
Question
What is the name in the logo in the top left? (hint it's something dot com):
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
   

Topic review - Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
"Schlachtschiff Tirpitz, Volume V" by Gehringer & BONOMI, has a 2-page, 3-side view of Scharnhorst's camouflage in Sept. 1943, complete with color-ID. (No page numbers in this book; just before map "230K"). As the book is quite new, that should represent Mr. Bonomi's most recent thoughts on the topic.
Post Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 12:43 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
Timmy C wrote:
You can contact Bonomi via PM: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=471


Did that, thank you. :)
Post Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 4:42 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
You can contact Bonomi via PM: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=471
Post Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 7:17 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
DavidP wrote:
go with Bonomi as model companies usually get it wrong.


For me it is Bonomi vs Leon/Asmussen where I am trying to decide. Bonomi is very old now and probably what I posted is not accurate. I wish I knew where to find his newest version to compare to Leon/Asmussen which is most recent for me. Any thoughts?

I wont go with Model companies one of course.
Post Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 6:52 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
go with Bonomi as model companies usually get it wrong.
Post Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 9:42 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
What's the latest on 43 camouflage for Sharnhorst? (North Cape, as sunk).

Leon/Asmussen book ok as a reference?

Or better sources?


Differences are huge by now. Three kits - Flyhawk 700, Dragon 350, Trumpeter 200. All differ in camouflage patterns, camouflage colors, deck painting, and even stuff like width of boot topping (too thin on most?), color on turret tops (yellow? ).

Flyhawk is super different to many. They call for yellow turret tops, and dark grey decks for example (sans maindeck). Leon / Asmussen calls for bluish bow and stern, and tops. Bonomi calls for all grey shades, no blues. Trumpeter has some very blue also but not the one that Asmussen has. Etc. It is a complete mess in my head which one to go with.

I tend to gravitate to Leon as I own the book and research feels thorough, yet Im happy to be convinced Im wrong.

I can clearly see how people were interpreting photographs. Director domes are dark - or there is a roundish grey splotch in that area. The hull forward section black piece always struck me as strange - may be shadow may be really black. Etc etc. Fascinating.


Attachments:
File comment: FLYHAWK
Note: Yellow turret tops, dark decks. The boot topping seems to be sitting too low!

10642804t2.jpeg
10642804t2.jpeg [ 183.51 KiB | Viewed 400 times ]
File comment: TRUMPETER
Note: bluish grey as one of key colors but also has white.

10739878t.jpeg
10739878t.jpeg [ 105.11 KiB | Viewed 400 times ]
File comment: Toller / Bonomi
Note: all grey, patterns

SH14-SizilienNewfinal.jpeg
SH14-SizilienNewfinal.jpeg [ 242.32 KiB | Viewed 400 times ]
File comment: Leon / Asmussen. Pic from book I own.
Note: Bluish grey ends and tops

IMG_2025.jpg
IMG_2025.jpg [ 201.08 KiB | Viewed 400 times ]
Post Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 4:24 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
tjstoneman wrote:
A quick review of online photos none with the stem anchor after the early war period - it's absent in one taken during Operation Berlin, and I couldn't find one taken later than that where it's present. She certainly hadn't got it fitted in this photo: https://www.historyphotos.org/wp-conten ... 5ennYZppZo

Koop and Schmolke state that it was removed after sea trials (presumably after the so-called Atlantic Bow was fitted) showed that it set up strong vibrations when the bow plunged, and worsened the effects of seas shipped over the bow.


Thanks, I suspected as much. This helps with one thing that I see on models often not done right.
Post Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 12:21 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
A quick review of online photos none with the stem anchor after the early war period - it's absent in one taken during Operation Berlin, and I couldn't find one taken later than that where it's present. She certainly hadn't got it fitted in this photo: https://www.historyphotos.org/wp-conten ... 5ennYZppZo

Koop and Schmolke state that it was removed after sea trials (presumably after the so-called Atlantic Bow was fitted) showed that it set up strong vibrations when the bow plunged, and worsened the effects of seas shipped over the bow.
Post Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 6:22 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
Guys whats the consensus on North Cape Scharnhorst bow anchor - did it have it or did Germans drop these bow anchors by mid war phase?
Post Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 2:48 am
  Post subject:  Anchor capstans  Reply with quote
Hi, does anyone know how the anchor capstans on Scharnhorst & Gneisenau were painted. I have Kageros drawings in 3D which shows them as black and white stripes. Other sources show red/white green/white as per Bismarck on which
Kagero and Draminski s AOS agree. I would have thought these things would be the same throughout the Kriegsmarine, or maybe they were changed at some time? I've looked at other people's models, but some are one way, some the other.
I would be interested to know how they are in the Scharnhorst AOS.

I think I didn't look hard enough...there is a youtube video of the ship and 10 seconds in shows the capstans in colour . www.schlachtschiff scharnhorst then the video : schlachtsciff Scharnhorst und Gneisenau versenken ....
Post Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 8:48 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
Antonio Bonomi wrote:
Hello everybody,

@ RoyMac,

you got it right and congratulations for your clever evaluations of the Scharnhorst last camouflage most recent evolution studies.

Not only I have helped Stefan Draminski realizing his wonderful last book on Scharnhorst, but a similar 3D rendering of the Scharnhorst has been made for my ( with R. Gehringer as co-author ) 5th and last book about the Tirpitz.

Obviously we have used the last set of information available from the photos taken on the second half of 1943.

Feel free to ask anything you may need and ... happy modeling.

Bye Antonio :smallsmile:



Many thanks Antonio

I will sit down and try to figure out the various colours in the scheme...I'm presuming I cannot scan and repost part of the AoTS book for copyright reasons but would like to describe the scheme elements and check with you that I have the various areas/colours correctly identified

:thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:10 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
details are in the new "Anatomy of the Ship, Scharnhorst" book.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=318521
Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:54 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
Antonio Bonomi wrote:
Hello everybody,

@ RoyMac,

you got it right and congratulations for your clever evaluations of the Scharnhorst last camouflage most recent evolution studies.

Not only I have helped Stefan Draminski realizing his wonderful last book on Scharnhorst, but a similar 3D rendering of the Scharnhorst has been made for my ( with R. Gehringer as co-author ) 5th and last book about the Tirpitz.

Obviously we have used the last set of information available from the photos taken on the second half of 1943.

Feel free to ask anything you may need and ... happy modeling.

Bye Antonio :smallsmile:



Antonio - do you have links to your books or can post an image you referred to as "the latest"?
Certainly a lot of confusion for me, as I am also about to paint Scharnhorst in her as-sunk camouflage.
Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:13 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
Hello everybody,

@ RoyMac,

you got it right and congratulations for your clever evaluations of the Scharnhorst last camouflage most recent evolution studies.

Not only I have helped Stefan Draminski realizing his wonderful last book on Scharnhorst, but a similar 3D rendering of the Scharnhorst has been made for my ( with R. Gehringer as co-author ) 5th and last book about the Tirpitz.

Obviously we have used the last set of information available from the photos taken on the second half of 1943.

Feel free to ask anything you may need and ... happy modeling.

Bye Antonio :smallsmile:
Post Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:09 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
Dear All

I've posted this in the paint scheme/camouflage section for Scharnhorst thread as well put posting here just in case that one has 'died'.

I'm late to the Scharnhorst party but I'm just about to start in on my Dragon 1/350 Scharnhorst and intend to paint her in the final scheme. I've noted Antonio Bonomi's in depth stuff and excellent renderings of the Ostfront scheme. I've also just bought the Draminski AoTS book.

The book's introduction thanks Antonio for his help in putting the book together.

Here's the thing...

The Ostfront scheme on pages 72/73 differs from the most recent renderings I have from the internet attributed to Antonio. This is particularly noticeable around the bridge/forward superstructure, funnel and Anton and Bruno areas and the fact that the bow and stern areas appear light grey rather than off white.

Just wondered if the version shown in AoTS was in fact the result of the latest research by Antonio and/or whether it is considered as definitive as possible at this time?

Many Thanks
Post Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:55 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
Frank,

Re: You post of 1.22pm

Your effort doesn't look that bad! Keep it up!
Post Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:40 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
I wonder if you can "flick" the bristles of your brush (using fingers or a toothpick) and let those flying specks create the fleck effect?
Post Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:23 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
Dan Banks wrote:
Hello Frank, just wondering how your “fleck” painting was coming.


Its not coming out as well as it could, but this is mostly due to my lack of (or much atrophied) skill. So, I'm not terribly disappointed and can live with it. Its not like I'll be entering it into any contests or placing it on public display, LOL.

As for technique, I've been trying pretty much everything "Guest" mentioned: I dabbed with a short bristled brush, splotched with a small diameter brush, scumbled and sprayed a fine mist from a distance. I did a bit of all of this on some pieces...the hardest part (for me) is consistency...its too dark here, too pale there, etc. Very tricky thing for this size of a model (well, for me).

You can see what I'm talking about in the following photo...bridge seems much lighter than the funnel and rear superstructure (but its less pronounced in person). Also be advised that I have not yet removed some washes nor have I added the railings...I opted to do these afterwards due to the spotching technique knocking things off the model. That's a mid 1930s Hood in the background. She's incomplete as well, but she does have the correct brown shelter deck and grey antifouling (no red for Hood):

Attachment:
IMG_6447[67284].jpg
IMG_6447[67284].jpg [ 137.04 KiB | Viewed 1309 times ]

Note: I edited this post to replace the original image with a larger variant and a couple of comments.

I'm starting to get burnt out on the Cerberus project though, so its in real danger of being shelved for a while...I see a zeppelin (USS Macon) that has my name on it! Of course, maybe I'll go back to Bismarck...at least her 24 May 1941 paint scheme is rock solid and easy to replicate. Then again, maybe I'll go for the original raider next...the Viking long ship needs to be completed (trying to determine what colour to paint her gunwales, etc.
Post Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:22 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
Dan,

The scheme was probably applied simply, by German matelots just dabbing or short stroking a loaded two inch (or similar) paint brush onto the lighter or darker surface: rather time consuming. That would work at a scale of 1:1 but it would be difficult to achieve the right effect at small scales. "Scumbling" could be tried but it is likely to be impossible to control the size of the "dots." One might also try an almost dry, short bristled brush "jabbed" on or a fine spray applied from a distance.
Post Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:46 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst & Gneisenau fans!  Reply with quote
Hello Frank, just wondering how your “fleck” painting was coming. I have tried it before on small models, Neptune’s 1/1250, and Tamiya’s Prinz Eugen. Neither turned out well. Trying to paint with a small tip brush, like dots, didn’t look right. I did get a better result with an airbrush on a 1/350 PE, but I can’t remember exactly how I did it. It would be interesting to know how the Germans actually did it. Most books refer to it as sloppily applied, but what was the process? Few left to tell. Looks kind of like it was applied with a mop?
Post Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:10 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group