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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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Photos clearly indicate that both sisters were missing a lot of parts when they were commissioned, so we'll call this an "as completed" or maybe an "as intended" question: The prescribed standard USN battleship package of the time seems to have been four 1.1" quad mounts and eight .50 cal water-cooled mounts. Not that they all received their quads in a timely manner (as the Dec. 7 lineup can attest), but the intended locations of all these quads is pretty obvious on all the ships. On the other hand, there was no shortage of .50s, and as far as I can tell every ship that was supposed to have a certain quantity of them did, in fact, receive them. But they also tended to migrate around a bit on any given ship from one refit to the next - even before the wartime additions start in earnest. I scanned through this entire thread over the last couple days and see there's been a lot of discussion about the light gun positions at almost all phases of the North Carolinas' WWII service, with many dubious periods and lots of photo interpretation, and definitive drawings often lacking. But in this case, I hope there might be a definitive answer to a question I don't see asked anywhere: What were the intended positions of the .50 cal water-cooled guns at completion? I assume there would be eight of them and they'd be somewhere up in the superstructure, but nothing strikes me as obvious - no birdbath tub on top of a spotting top, for example. Has anyone seen a deck plan with the as-intended positions of the .50 cals?
- Sean F.
Photos clearly indicate that both sisters were missing a lot of parts when they were commissioned, so we'll call this an "as completed" or maybe an "as intended" question: The prescribed standard USN battleship package of the time seems to have been four 1.1" quad mounts and eight .50 cal water-cooled mounts. Not that they all received their quads in a timely manner (as the Dec. 7 lineup can attest), but the intended locations of all these quads is pretty obvious on all the ships. On the other hand, there was no shortage of .50s, and as far as I can tell every ship that was supposed to have a certain quantity of them did, in fact, receive them. But they also tended to migrate around a bit on any given ship from one refit to the next - even before the wartime additions start in earnest. I scanned through this entire thread over the last couple days and see there's been a lot of discussion about the light gun positions at almost all phases of the North Carolinas' WWII service, with many dubious periods and lots of photo interpretation, and definitive drawings often lacking. But in this case, I hope there might be a definitive answer to a question I don't see asked anywhere: What were the intended positions of the .50 cal water-cooled guns at completion? I assume there would be eight of them and they'd be somewhere up in the superstructure, but nothing strikes me as obvious - no birdbath tub on top of a spotting top, for example. Has anyone seen a deck plan with the as-intended positions of the .50 cals?
- Sean F.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:37 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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Thank you both.
Thank you both. :thumbs_up_1:
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:17 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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Reading vertically from outboard to inboard on the starboard yardarm:
1. ILMC (All flags) 2. BB55 (This is two Flag Bravos followed by two No 5 pennants) 3. NIBK (All flags)
Reading vertically from outboard to inboard on the port yardarm
1. VJDAY (All flags) 2. 1945 (All numeral pennants) 3. 1995 (All numeral pennants)
The significance appears to be predominantly American; which I am not, however, I think that this answers your question.
81542
Reading vertically from outboard to inboard on the starboard yardarm:
1. ILMC (All flags) 2. BB55 (This is two Flag Bravos followed by two No 5 pennants) 3. NIBK (All flags)
Reading vertically from outboard to inboard on the port yardarm
1. VJDAY (All flags) 2. 1945 (All numeral pennants) 3. 1995 (All numeral pennants)
The significance appears to be predominantly American; which I am not, however, I think that this answers your question.
81542
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:41 am |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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The third from the left is the ships radio call sign November, India, Bravo, Kilo.
The third from the left is the ships radio call sign November, India, Bravo, Kilo.
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:26 am |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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Does anybody know, please, what do mean these signal flags at North Carolina? https://www.battleshipnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Stern-Shot.jpgI tried to decode it, IMHO I found 1945, 1995 and BB55. But the rest? Thank you in advance.
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Stern-Shot2.jpg [ 297.5 KiB | Viewed 14047 times ]
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Does anybody know, please, what do mean these signal flags at North Carolina? [url]https://www.battleshipnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Stern-Shot.jpg[/url] I tried to decode it, IMHO I found 1945, 1995 and BB55. But the rest? Thank you in advance.
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:33 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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Correct, Emergency Diesel Generator.
Correct, Emergency Diesel Generator.
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:10 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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NavyShooter wrote: EDG - Emergency Diesel Generator? thanks!
[quote="NavyShooter"]EDG - Emergency Diesel Generator?[/quote] :thumbs_up_1: thanks!
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:28 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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EDG - Emergency Diesel Generator?
EDG - Emergency Diesel Generator?
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:14 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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You mean these I suppose? Thanks Propmeup1! But what exactly is an EDG??? Attachment:
0155004 cut.jpg [ 152.26 KiB | Viewed 14624 times ]
You mean these I suppose? Thanks Propmeup1! But what exactly is an EDG???[attachment=0]0155004 cut.jpg[/attachment]
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:01 pm |
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Re: North Carolina |
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EDG exhaust deflectors.
EDG exhaust deflectors.
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:46 pm |
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North Carolina |
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Does anyone know the protrusions on North Carolina Hull are near the rear armor belt Trumpeter has them on side oh hull ?
Does anyone know the protrusions on North Carolina Hull are near the rear armor belt Trumpeter has them on side oh hull ?
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:06 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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Guest wrote: Hi, I probably missed it but does anyone do a 350 Washington conversion, mainly the anchor wash area? Thanks, just looking to do as built, no camo. Hi, Kraken Hobbies produces parts to convert the Trumpeter North Carolina into the Washington. The "Washboard" is not listed on the site yet but is a completed design, just drop us an email if interested. Matt
[quote="Guest"]Hi, I probably missed it but does anyone do a 350 Washington conversion, mainly the anchor wash area? Thanks, just looking to do as built, no camo.[/quote] Hi, Kraken Hobbies produces parts to convert the [url=https://krakenhobbies.com/shop/ols/products/1350-uss-washington-bb-56-bridge-superstructure]Trumpeter North Carolina into the Washington[/url]. The "Washboard" is not listed on the site yet but is a completed design, just drop us an email if interested.
Matt
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:29 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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Hi, I probably missed it but does anyone do a 350 Washington conversion, mainly the anchor wash area? Thanks, just looking to do as built, no camo.
Hi, I probably missed it but does anyone do a 350 Washington conversion, mainly the anchor wash area? Thanks, just looking to do as built, no camo.
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:27 am |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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BSteinIPMS wrote: 2. Some books (Steve Wiper, Randy Shoker, David Doyle) say turret #3 was Ocean Gray 5-O on top, not Weather Deck Blue 20B like the forward turrets. Photos seem to indicate the turret roof was Light Gray 5-L, along with the gun barrels. One color photo appears to show the aft turret top as Ocean Gray 5-O, with the stacks of life rafts, gun director tub, and 40mm gun tub painted Light Gray 5-L. Any opinions out there? FWIW, I went with 5L on the roof of #3 turret. I used Wiper's book, Shoker's book and Doyle's book (the latter had the most accurate depiction of the pattern, IMO), but I mostly used archival photos from NARA II to get the pattern to where I thought it should be. In my opinion, the pattern changed slightly after she left Puget Sound, which photos seem to confirm. I don't remember specifically about the gun barrels. I counter-shaded them on my build, but I could have missed that they weren't, while focusing on other parts of the pattern.
[quote="BSteinIPMS"]2. Some books (Steve Wiper, Randy Shoker, David Doyle) say turret #3 was Ocean Gray 5-O on top, not Weather Deck Blue 20B like the forward turrets. Photos seem to indicate the turret roof was Light Gray 5-L, along with the gun barrels. One color photo appears to show the aft turret top as Ocean Gray 5-O, with the stacks of life rafts, gun director tub, and 40mm gun tub painted Light Gray 5-L. Any opinions out there?[/quote] FWIW, I went with 5L on the roof of [url=http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/bb-55/NorthCarolina-350-mq/pages/TrumpyNCFinal_014.htm][b][u]#3 turret[/u][/b][/url]. I used Wiper's book, Shoker's book and Doyle's book (the latter had the most accurate depiction of the pattern, IMO), but I mostly used archival photos from NARA II to get the pattern to where I thought it should be. In my opinion, the pattern changed slightly after she left Puget Sound, which photos seem to confirm.
I don't remember specifically about the gun barrels. I counter-shaded them on my build, but I could have missed that they weren't, while focusing on other parts of the pattern.
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:05 am |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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Bob, This reply may seem either totally ridiculous or quite apropos - Why not get in touch with the USS NORTH CAROLINA Battleship Museum staff in Wilmington, NC and see what they have in the way of camo info?? I mean, the ship is there, it's camouflaged (although that isn't working as it's visible plain & simple ), so it would seem to me that those folks SHOULD have the proper information re. her paint scheme in 1944 at PSNSYD. I haven't been on the ship in quite a few years, but I understand they do have one of the better documentation libraries on board of all the museum ships. Hope this helps (and doesn't appear to be a total knee jerk response ) Hank
Bob,
This reply may seem either totally ridiculous or quite apropos -
Why not get in touch with the USS NORTH CAROLINA Battleship Museum staff in Wilmington, NC and see what they have in the way of camo info?? I mean, the ship is there, it's camouflaged (although that isn't working as it's visible plain & simple :doh_1: ), so it would seem to me that those folks SHOULD have the proper information re. her paint scheme in 1944 at PSNSYD. I haven't been on the ship in quite a few years, but I understand they do have one of the better documentation libraries on board of all the museum ships.
Hope this helps (and doesn't appear to be a total knee jerk response :idea: )
Hank
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:46 am |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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I've read all 25 pages of this topic and hope I haven't skipped over the answers to these questions. If so, please bear with me.
I have about 30 books on the North Carolina and have hit a roadblock on camouflage. Ron Smith has done an exemplary job as a researcher and I have his article that appeared in the Nautical Research Journal, but some books give one explanation, others give something different. I'm looking for information on certain aspects of the ship's paint after her September 1944 refit at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Measure 32/18D.
Questions: 1. Do the 16" main gun barrels on turrets #1 & #2 have a counter-shaded paint scheme? Or are they Ocean Gray 5-O top and bottom?
2. Some books (Steve Wiper, Randy Shoker, David Doyle) say turret #3 was Ocean Gray 5-O on top, not Weather Deck Blue 20B like the forward turrets. Photos seem to indicate the turret roof was Light Gray 5-L, along with the gun barrels. One color photo appears to show the aft turret top as Ocean Gray 5-O, with the stacks of life rafts, gun director tub, and 40mm gun tub painted Light Gray 5-L. Any opinions out there?
3. Last, the second edition of Kagero's book on the NC purports to show her in Measure 32/18D, and shows the aft turret roof as Ocean Gray 5-O, with the life raft stacks and both gun tubs as Light Gray 5-L. The gun barrels are also depicted as 5-L. Any opinions as to the accuracy of this publication?
Cheers! --Bob Steinbrunn IPMS/USA 3345 NRG 3569
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NC.jpg [ 41.07 KiB | Viewed 10978 times ]
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I've read all 25 pages of this topic and hope I haven't skipped over the answers to these questions. If so, please bear with me.
I have about 30 books on the [i]North Carolina[/i] and have hit a roadblock on camouflage. Ron Smith has done an exemplary job as a researcher and I have his article that appeared in the Nautical Research Journal, but some books give one explanation, others give something different. I'm looking for information on certain aspects of the ship's paint after her September 1944 refit at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Measure 32/18D.
Questions: 1. Do the 16" main gun barrels on turrets #1 & #2 have a counter-shaded paint scheme? Or are they Ocean Gray 5-O top and bottom?
2. Some books (Steve Wiper, Randy Shoker, David Doyle) say turret #3 was Ocean Gray 5-O on top, not Weather Deck Blue 20B like the forward turrets. Photos seem to indicate the turret roof was Light Gray 5-L, along with the gun barrels. One color photo appears to show the aft turret top as Ocean Gray 5-O, with the stacks of life rafts, gun director tub, and 40mm gun tub painted Light Gray 5-L. Any opinions out there?
3. Last, the second edition of Kagero's book on the NC purports to show her in Measure 32/18D, and shows the aft turret roof as Ocean Gray 5-O, with the life raft stacks and both gun tubs as Light Gray 5-L. The gun barrels are also depicted as 5-L. Any opinions as to the accuracy of this publication?
Cheers! --Bob Steinbrunn IPMS/USA 3345 NRG 3569
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:48 am |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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One might note that UNREP photos show that the fueling is conducted in this aft area. It appeared that the oilers hoses were used for these operations, the Battleship's hoses would be used when she refueled escorts etc.
Too bad we don't have access to the original photos of the era, which were often very detailed, especially the yard photos taken with 4x5 press type cameras.
Cheers: Tom
One might note that UNREP photos show that the fueling is conducted in this aft area. It appeared that the oilers hoses were used for these operations, the Battleship's hoses would be used when she refueled escorts etc.
Too bad we don't have access to the original photos of the era, which were often very detailed, especially the yard photos taken with 4x5 press type cameras.
Cheers: Tom
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:47 am |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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I believe Hank is correct on the Port Side, it's an accommodation latter probably started being stored there in late 1942/43. Starboard appears to me as refueling hoses. Attachment:
File comment: Washington in 1941
WA Aft 1941.JPG [ 44.32 KiB | Viewed 11397 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: Early 42 Starboard appears to be refueling hoses
WA Aft 1942-2.JPG [ 60.35 KiB | Viewed 11397 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: Later in 1942 they still appear to be refueling hoses. My shot of the Port side is fuzzy as well, but I believe we see the ladder stored there at this time
WA Aft 1942.JPG [ 37.27 KiB | Viewed 11397 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: From the same series of images Hank posted in 1945 post refit shakedown
WA Aft 1945.JPG [ 59.24 KiB | Viewed 11397 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: From the same series of images Hank posted in 1945 post refit shakedown
WA Aft 1945-2.JPG [ 92.28 KiB | Viewed 11397 times ]
HTH Matt
I believe Hank is correct on the Port Side, it's an accommodation latter probably started being stored there in late 1942/43. Starboard appears to me as refueling hoses. [attachment=4]WA Aft 1941.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=3]WA Aft 1942-2.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=2]WA Aft 1942.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=1]WA Aft 1945.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=0]WA Aft 1945-2.JPG[/attachment]
HTH
Matt
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:39 am |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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Re. the photos posted by Kazec of the port after superstructure: I've found two fairly decent photos of this area of WASHINGTON that show what is stowed on that particular bulkhead - this was late war, 1945 when these photos were taken (Puget Sound) and here is a blow up of the best of those two photos: Attachment:
Detail Blow Up STL-10735.JPG [ 57.73 KiB | Viewed 11412 times ]
The item in question is one of the ship's accommodation ladders, broken down in the stowed position. The upper platform is on the left side, flat on the bulkhead along with the ladder risers which have been also flattened. The items laying against the ladder could possibly be a canvas bag containing the two handrails and stanchions as these would be removed and disassembled for stowage. Consulting photos of NORTH CAROLINA in the same area, show a different configuration for her - no stowed ladder - only two large life rafts stowed against the bulkhead. NORTH CAROLINA's bulkhead also shows a different configuration of external HVAC vents and duct that are not present on WASHINGTON (she only has two surface vents on that particular bulkhead). Keep in mind (once again) that no two ships of a class are alike - there are always differences. Hope this helps,
Re. the photos posted by Kazec of the port after superstructure:
I've found two fairly decent photos of this area of WASHINGTON that show what is stowed on that particular bulkhead - this was late war, 1945 when these photos were taken (Puget Sound) and here is a blow up of the best of those two photos: [attachment=0]Detail Blow Up STL-10735.JPG[/attachment] The item in question is one of the ship's accommodation ladders, broken down in the stowed position. The upper platform is on the left side, flat on the bulkhead along with the ladder risers which have been also flattened. The items laying against the ladder could possibly be a canvas bag containing the two handrails and stanchions as these would be removed and disassembled for stowage.
Consulting photos of NORTH CAROLINA in the same area, show a different configuration for her - no stowed ladder - only two large life rafts stowed against the bulkhead. NORTH CAROLINA's bulkhead also shows a different configuration of external HVAC vents and duct that are not present on WASHINGTON (she only has two surface vents on that particular bulkhead).
Keep in mind (once again) that no two ships of a class are alike - there are always differences.
Hope this helps,
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:45 pm |
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Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans |
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DavidP wrote: top picture bottom object appears to be tapered at the right end so not fuel hose but maybe part of boat boom? I think they are boat booms. They taper...
[quote="DavidP"]top picture bottom object appears to be tapered at the right end so not fuel hose but maybe part of boat boom?[/quote]
I think they are boat booms. They taper...
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:27 pm |
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