The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:43 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post a reply
Post icon:
None
Username:
Subject:
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 60000 characters. 

Font size:
Font colour
Options:
BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Disable BBCode
Do not automatically parse URLs
Question
type everything in between the quote marks: "N0$pam" Note the Zero:
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
   

Topic review - Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
The FDD book depicts the Missouri in Tokyo Bay at the signing of the Japanese surrender in 1945.
Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:14 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
chuck wrote:
I don’t think floating dry dock is complete because the depiction is rather haphazard. Most antennas shown appear only in one drawing, and missing from other drawings showing the same location. Also the antennas are often depicted as being on one side of the ship even though the drawing show both sides.


Does the FDD book specify an exact date? The problem one has is that the antennas changed every time the Missouri went into a shipyard. The changes among the Iowa class were dramatic throughout the war.
Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:11 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Does anyone know where I can find a reference on type, function and location of ECM Antenna on the Missouri in sept 1945? Floating Dry dock shows a number of different dipole antennas in foremast, sides of the tower bridge and on the aft funnel.

I don’t think floating dry dock is complete because the depiction is rather haphazard. Most antennas shown appear only in one drawing, and missing from other drawings showing the same location. Also the antennas are often depicted as being on one side of the ship even though the drawing show both sides.

The antennas I found are:

Dipole antenna on either side of the SK-2 radar platform.

A single dipole antenna with prominent insulator at the rear of the SK-2 platform.

Dipole antenna on either side of foretruck SG radar service platform.

A ECM radome on a small cantilevered frame on the starboard side fog horn platform.

2 dipole antennas on the search light tub on the rear funnel, one with a prominant indulator.

1 dipole antenna on the service platform underneath the searchlight tub on the rear funnel.
Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:50 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Attachment:
Flag bag _MG_6147.JPG
Flag bag _MG_6147.JPG [ 195.92 KiB | Viewed 157 times ]


Covered, but one can see the original rail in front of the bag.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:22 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Chuck wrote:
Quote:
Another question, for the halyards on the mainmast, where did they tie off on? Trumpeter helpfully provided a third flag locker for the space between the aft funnel and the 5” practice machine, and Pontos helpfully provided a belaying pin rail for it similar to that provided for the other two flag locker. But Trumpeter May have simply extrapolated without direct evidence. All the plans and the big Gibbs and Cox model l’ve seen suggests there wasn’t a flag locker there during WWII.


Yes, there was - here is a portion of NEW JERSEY taken in June 1945 at Bremerton of her after flag bag:
Attachment:
BB-62_1945 After Flag Bag_1 Detail.JPG
BB-62_1945 After Flag Bag_1 Detail.JPG [ 20.86 KiB | Viewed 207 times ]

I would suspect that this was typical for all the IOWAs at the time. The pipe rack tie-off in front of the flag bag was still there when she was re-activated for Vietnam War service.


Here is a somewhat typical Navy flag bag with belaying pin tie-offs:
Attachment:
Typ. Flag Bag wTie Offs_1.JPG
Typ. Flag Bag wTie Offs_1.JPG [ 20.48 KiB | Viewed 207 times ]


Hope this helps!
Post Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:11 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Chuck you are correct I think.
Page 60 -Flag Signal Level FR. 115-136 shows 2 sets of 5 belaying pin rails on the port and starboard sides just next to the two 5" drill ammunition lockers and forward of the rear flag locker.
I believe that small hatch which looks a bit like a toilet seat is where the signal halyards were fed through. This is an armoured control centre and the idea was that during a shooting battle the signals flags could be sent from this armoured centre with no danger to the personnel operating these signals. The halyards were fed through a kidney shaped frame down to the "toilet seat" opening into the armoured room. On the plan I believe it is incorrectly labelled an "Oval Escape Scuttle". The kidney shaped feed is shown on Page 75 and labelled "Fairlead for Signal Halyards". I don't think these were ever used in a battle as at that time other forms of communication were being developed. The Fairlead for the Signal Halyards is shown on page 75 - Navigation Bridge Level.
Page 58 has a photo of the "toilet Seat" scuttle and an overhead photo of the starboard flag bag onboard USS Iowa in 1986. It states that "the belaying pins and rail are made of brass".
Hope this is helpful
David
Post Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:23 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Attachment:
flag rail _MG_4391.JPG
flag rail _MG_4391.JPG [ 324.75 KiB | Viewed 260 times ]


Current Missouri 03 level
Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:04 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Attachment:
NJ Flag bags .jpg
NJ Flag bags .jpg [ 395.37 KiB | Viewed 267 times ]


This shows the area in some more detail. Not the possibility of a set of light and dark halyards. The overhang of the 40 mm tub above somewhat complicates the use of signaling from the 04 level. Indeed the hatch which appears to be of a countrballanced type may well be for passing flags through from behind a splinter protected space. Whether or not this was used to any extent in this manner, who can say.

I do have closeup photos of this hatch from Missouri and included it on my scratch 1:192 modern ship.
Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:01 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
If you blow up this image from Navsource: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016341c.jpg.

you can make out the signal halyards. It appears a couple of halyards are attached to the front of the flag locker, but most of the halyards are threaded further forward to a frame mounted on the back of 04 level balcony.

This makes sense while the ship is in operation actually. Because directly under the bulcony, forward of the flag locker and behind the flag plot, is an armored battle signal compartment, with armored glass vision slits and a large round hatch on the wall facing diagonally towards the back. This hatch is unusual because there is a fat round coating all around it.

Several sources say this is an escape hatch. That makes no sense. Why would the escape hatch be round, so small a person has to squeeze through, and 5 feet off the deck? Why the fat coaling?

I believe this round hatch is open during the battle to allow signal halyards, threaded through the frame just behind and above it, to come into the battle signal station. The fat coaming is prevent the halyards and signal flags from snagging on the rim of the hatch opening. My theory is In battle the signal flags will be set inside from the protected battle signal compartment, and then hoisted out through the hatch up to the yard arm.
Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Thanks. That’s what I thought.

Another question, for the halyards on the mainmast, where did they tie off on? Trumpeter helpfully provided a third flag locker for the space between the aft funnel and the 5” practice machine, and Pontos helpfully provided a belaying pin rail for it similar to that provided for the other two flag locker. But Trumpeter May have simply extrapolated without direct evidence. All the plans and the big Gibbs and Cox model l’ve seen suggests there wasn’t a flag locker there during WWII.

But pages 160 and 162 of the electronic float drydock plan show a rather hefty “tie rod” cantilevered from the back of the aft funnel and offset to starboard. There is none on the port side. Is this where the Halyards for the main mast tie off? Does halyard from the port side yard arm acrossove the centerline to tie off on the tie rod on the starboard side?
Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:04 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Page 68 of the paper Floating Drydock book shows a 3D sketch (not to scale) of a flag bag. It shows a flat bar with half a dozen belaying pins inserted. The halyards were tied off to the belaying pins, similar to the rigging on a sailing ship.
For those with the electronic copy, on the page is detail of the 5" practice loading machines.
Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:52 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Large double page spread on page 96-97 of "Battleship New Jersey" shows the halyards tied off inboard and even with the fwd edge of the flag bag. The ship is not underway and crew is manning the rail for the photo. The scariest aspect of the photo is a line of sailors sitting on one of the 16" barrels, all the way out to the end!
Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:47 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Currently there is a canvas cover over the flag bag. I will have to look at the photos I have, but the Iowa's are a little unique in that both sides of the flag bag is easily accessible.

Sounds like photo search time! Good luck!
Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:35 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Fliger747 wrote:
Signal Halyards? Several feet forward of the flag bags there is a rail, much like a hitching post in an old west town.


I see the hitching post rail on the Iowa now. But I am pretty sure that rail wasn’t there during WWII. No drawings or photos of that part of any of the 4 ships from that era shows such a rail.

Also, the location of that rail aligns with back edge of the extension to balcony outside the chart house one level above on level 04. There is even a row of eyelets at the edge of 04 level extension for halyard to thread through. But that extension was added during the 1980s modernization. Prior to 1980s the aft end of balcony on level 04 terminated a few feet further forward, and aligned with the support stanchions of the 40mm quad bofor tub on 05 level. So it seems to me that hitching post rail was added during the 1980s as well.
Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:24 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Signal Halyards? Several feet forward of the flag bags there is a rail, much like a hitching post in an old west town.
Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:06 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Timmy C wrote:
Triumph68 wrote:
a few weeks ago...I had my parents on visite (they live in Belgium and me in Switzerland)..and they brought an USS Iowa old kit I made...some 40 years ago...not to my today standard and under a big load of dust.
so I decided to check on her today...washed her completely(some paint came of) ...as she doesn't look so bad in proportions... I started to think...what if I re-do this...but needly
state as now:
first...the paint...well as a kid you make silly choices ...brilliant paint for a warship...pfff..awell...then ..red superstructure and silver main guns...man what was I thinking of...
mesuring her she is 50cm so I suppose its a 1/550 scale.
1 secondairy gun missing...2 quadrupple AA guns also missing
before I start a new USS IOWA building topic I wanted some info about what kit this might be and how the aftermarket for this would be...joined you see her together with my newly bought 1/400 Kangnam USS Missouri.

all input are welcome

Looks like the classic Revell 1/535 Missouri. The hull is pretty distinctive.

yep it is , txs ...actualy its the 1979 Iowa version of that kit

your input helped me searching, decided to buy the tom's Modelworks railings, radars ...gonna re-do her

darn...if you buy both guns (5" and Main) plus the gun directors from shapeways...its close to 50 dollars....thats crazy
looks like...gonna have to scratch build
Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:58 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Triumph68 wrote:
a few weeks ago...I had my parents on visite (they live in Belgium and me in Switzerland)..and they brought an USS Iowa old kit I made...some 40 years ago...not to my today standard and under a big load of dust.
so I decided to check on her today...washed her completely(some paint came of) ...as she doesn't look so bad in proportions... I started to think...what if I re-do this...but needly
state as now:
first...the paint...well as a kid you make silly choices ...brilliant paint for a warship...pfff..awell...then ..red superstructure and silver main guns...man what was I thinking of...
mesuring her she is 50cm so I suppose its a 1/550 scale.
1 secondairy gun missing...2 quadrupple AA guns also missing
before I start a new USS IOWA building topic I wanted some info about what kit this might be and how the aftermarket for this would be...joined you see her together with my newly bought 1/400 Kangnam USS Missouri.

all input are welcome

Looks like the classic Revell 1/535 Missouri. The hull is pretty distinctive.
Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:52 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Does anyone know if there are no signal flags flying, where do the signal halyards tie off on?

The signal flag locker on either side of foreword funnel has a horizontal polished brass rail on the rear. Is this where the halyards tie to?
Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:57 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
a few weeks ago...I had my parents on visite (they live in Belgium and me in Switzerland)..and they brought an USS Iowa old kit I made...some 40 years ago...not to my today standard and under a big load of dust.
so I decided to check on her today...washed her completely(some paint came of) ...as she doesn't look so bad in proportions... I started to think...what if I re-do this...but needly
state as now:
first...the paint...well as a kid you make silly choices ...brilliant paint for a warship...pfff..awell...then ..red superstructure and silver main guns...man what was I thinking of...
mesuring her she is 50cm so I suppose its a 1/550 scale.
1 secondairy gun missing...2 quadrupple AA guns also missing
before I start a new USS IOWA building topic I wanted some info about what kit this might be and how the aftermarket for this would be...joined you see her together with my newly bought 1/400 Kangnam USS Missouri.

all input are welcome


Attachments:
1.jpg
1.jpg [ 231.83 KiB | Viewed 151 times ]
2.jpg
2.jpg [ 318.63 KiB | Viewed 151 times ]
Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:24 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I looked on Shapeways but didn’t see them. Didn’t someone make some 3D printed parts for the 1/700 Iowa kits? I remember a rounded bridge for the 1943 New Jersey, and a correct O-10/O-11 level housing for the 1980’s Iowa, Missouri, and Wisconsin.....
Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:00 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group