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Topic review - Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
chuck wrote:
BB63Missouri wrote:
Chuck. Page 81 of The Floating Drydock Plan Handbook shows the Infra Red signal assembly in reasonable detail, enough for a model. Once you know the location on the ship, you can see them in photos, but I have not found any close up photos.
I read somewhere that the term "Nancy Hanks" was used as code when they were about to send signals via the Infra Red system.



Hmmm, in my e-book version, page 81 shows Fr 98 - 112 MAIN DECK. I did not find anything on the IR Light assembly.



Same here. Would it be possible to provide more detail so we can locate the picture?
Post Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:39 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Thanks.

I am building Missouri as she was around August 1945, before the removal of deck vents for the surrender ceremony and subsequent removal of some 20mm mounts on the way back to the states.

The Nancy beacon she carried at that time appear to be X-2A model, which were mounted on a frame bolted to the bulwarks around her air defence platform. From blurry photos blown up many times the x-2A beacon seems to be a metal cylinder or half cylinder about 3 feet tall and 1 foot in diameter. There seems to be at least 6 circular IR lamps embedded in two diagonal columns in the wall of the cylinder, arranged to give about 180 degree coverage. There are some pipes or cable conduits sticking out near the bottom.

But for some reason clear drawings or photos of this beacon is very hard to come by. The only reason I think it is X-2A is I found a scan of an Dec 1945 office of Chief of Naval Operations Combat Information Center pamphlet that contained a small photo of it labeled X-2A and a verbal passage confirming that is the model number of the Omni-direction IR signaling beacon mounted on larger ships. The beacon appears to match the beacon on the Missouri to the extent possible to determine from comparing small blurry photos of the beacon to a small detail on the image of the ship blown up many times.
Post Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:24 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Chuck,

Not knowing WHAT ERA your MO is going to be, I can't say what anything but the older (post WWII/Korea) NANCY Beacon's dimensions/details may be. While drawing up plans for my 1:44 scale FLETCHER class DD model, I did some research into the various navigational/communications devices commonly used by the USN in the 1950's/'60s. The NANCY Infared Beacon (port/stbd side) were common on FLETCHER/GEARING Class DDs and I would also think the IOWA class BB's. But without complete knowledge of these items on this class, I'm taking a guess:

1) Here is a photo of NEW JERSEY in the '50s with NANCY beacons (I think) highlighted:
Attachment:
IOWA class Forearm.JPG
IOWA class Forearm.JPG [ 127.96 KiB | Viewed 47 times ]


Here is a clip of my CAD file showing the lamp in detail:
Attachment:
NANCY Beacon Close-up.JPG
NANCY Beacon Close-up.JPG [ 18.21 KiB | Viewed 47 times ]


Here is a illustrative diagram of the overall NANCY system as used by the USN:
Attachment:
an sat-2a system diagram.JPG
an sat-2a system diagram.JPG [ 53.5 KiB | Viewed 47 times ]


And a photo of the lamp itself:
Attachment:
USN Yardarm Infared Blinker Lamp_1 - Resized.jpg
USN Yardarm Infared Blinker Lamp_1 - Resized.jpg [ 226.09 KiB | Viewed 47 times ]


The dimensions for the lamp (only - without the metal framework) are approx. 4 1/2" wide X 10 1/2" high - at least that's a ballpark figure subject to someone else's interpretation.

Hope this helps,
Post Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:22 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
BB63Missouri wrote:
Chuck. Page 81 of The Floating Drydock Plan Handbook shows the Infra Red signal assembly in reasonable detail, enough for a model. Once you know the location on the ship, you can see them in photos, but I have not found any close up photos.
I read somewhere that the term "Nancy Hanks" was used as code when they were about to send signals via the Infra Red system.



Hmmm, in my e-book version, page 81 shows Fr 98 - 112 MAIN DECK. I did not find anything on the IR Light assembly.
Post Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:01 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
There is a brief discussion of the Nancy Hanks usage in the HMCS Haida link I posted yesterday. At home I have a "key" for sending morse code via truck lights and such. Looks just like a fairly heavy duty telegraphic key, these were fairly low wattage lamps.
Post Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:44 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Chuck. Page 81 of The Floating Drydock Plan Handbook shows the Infra Red signal assembly in reasonable detail, enough for a model. Once you know the location on the ship, you can see them in photos, but I have not found any close up photos.
I read somewhere that the term "Nancy Hanks" was used as code when they were about to send signals via the Infra Red system.
Post Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:39 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Does anyone know where I can find drawings or clear photos of the Nancy infrared signaling light arrays carried outboard of missouri’s Air defence platform?
Post Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:55 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I don't claim any expertise for the North Carolina's at all. Just a WAG as the photo, purloined from who knows where happened to be on my eye pad while I am traveling in Siberia. Not labeled.

Cheers: T
Post Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:47 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Fliger747 wrote:
I believe you are referring to the "truck lights" on the mast? My recollection is that the Red and Green (Port and Starboard) lights are mounted on the exterior of the navigation bridge wings. Somewhere I have photos onboard Missouri that show these, but being in the middle of Siberia at the moment... On my eye pad I do have a photo detailing the forward mast arrangements of North Carolina, labeling all sorts of small items. In this photo the truck lights as labeled are on a small horizontal extension aft the mast, near the top and are (WAG) a little larger than a mans head as an assembly. Below this and similar in appearance (-10') is the "man Overboard and Breakdown light".

Not to nit pick too much, but in your photo, the wind baffles on the air defense position at the top of the tower make this Washington rather than North Carolina. :smallsmile:
Post Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:19 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I found this site http://navyadministration.tpub.com/1406 ... hts-36.htm

It has some helpful information as to the colour and position of lights. It may be of use. Just keep following to the next or previous page for what you are looking for.
Post Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:38 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Here some interesting info from HMCS Haida: http://www.jproc.ca/rrp/rrp2/visual_lights.html

Looks as if the breakdown and truck light being vertical, were used together to indicate a breakdown and flashing if for man overboard.
Post Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:07 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
The annotations are quite useful, though I didn't build this ship, it is a good description of typical gear aloft on a modern ship of that era. I don't remember where I found this image, there was no attribution attached when I saw it.

Thank you for your work on this!
Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:02 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I annotated that photo back in 2014 -- curiously my name is no longer on the image attached. ;)

It was labeled based on lighting plans available on the Researcher@Large website as well as notations in the Floating Drydock plans of BB-55, but may not be 100% accurate. For instance I still have no idea what COLOR the "man overboard & breakdown lights" are, or what color the truck lights would be. The purpose of towing and anchor lights seem obvious but I've never found a source that describes their exact use or specific color. Any info from the gents in this thread on this would be great.
Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:59 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I believe you are referring to the "truck lights" on the mast? My recollection is that the Red and Green (Port and Starboard) lights are mounted on the exterior of the navigation bridge wings. Somewhere I have photos onboard Missouri that show these, but being in the middle of Siberia at the moment... On my eye pad I do have a photo detailing the forward mast arrangements of North Carolina, labeling all sorts of small items. In this photo the truck lights as labeled are on a small horizontal extension aft the mast, near the top and are (WAG) a little larger than a mans head as an assembly. Below this and similar in appearance (-10') is the "man Overboard and Breakdown light".


Attachments:
FullSizeRender-2.jpg
FullSizeRender-2.jpg [ 247.6 KiB | Viewed 73 times ]
Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:48 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
chuck wrote:
Does anyone have drawings or photos showing the sizes of the navigation lamps on WWII US battleships? I am trying to make the lights for the 1/200 Missouri by cutting sections of clear plastic rods. I need to know how large these lamps were.


I know I have come across these on the ufilm at NARA. I'll keep an eye out for the plans as I go through the boxes.
Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:59 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
BB63Missouri wrote:
Chuck, check on flea bay in toys & hobbies for SMD (Surface Mount Diode) Leds. These are available in very small sizes, I think #402 is the smallest. This size is smaller then a pin head They are numbered according to size and are available in Bright white, warm white, red, green, yellow and blue - covers most of our modelling needs. The really good part for scale ships is they come with the wires soldered on and the wire is ultra thin and insulated with a very tough material. The wire is something like .003" thick. When buying get the ones with red and black wire as they are the thinnest wire. I just had a look and they are available 20 leds for under $10 Australian.With the wire being so small they could be run down a mast and be almost invisible.




Thank you. After reading your message, I found a German ebay store vendor called LED Baron. He seems to have the entire assortment of pinhead LEDs. The leads on the LEDs are apparently very thin magnetic metal wire painted with an insulating paint. Does anyone know if the insulating paint will last if used with crazy glue or overpainted with enamel paint?
Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:24 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
That works out to about 2" in scale, no too bad!
Post Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:35 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I just measured the wire with my electronic calipers. It should be .24MM not thousandths.
Sorry about that.
BUT it is still very thin wire and could easily be hidden in plain sight on a model boat.
Post Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
The use of such lights in wartime would be quite limited, though I have a USN WWII key (from my dad) that was used to send morse code via the masthead light...

.003 wire is pretty tiny!
Post Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:54 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Chuck, check on flea bay in toys & hobbies for SMD (Surface Mount Diode) Leds. These are available in very small sizes, I think #402 is the smallest. This size is smaller then a pin head They are numbered according to size and are available in Bright white, warm white, red, green, yellow and blue - covers most of our modelling needs. The really good part for scale ships is they come with the wires soldered on and the wire is ultra thin and insulated with a very tough material. The wire is something like .003" thick. When buying get the ones with red and black wire as they are the thinnest wire. I just had a look and they are available 20 leds for under $10 Australian.With the wire being so small they could be run down a mast and be almost invisible.
Post Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:37 am

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