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Topic review - Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Jim,

You make a very valid point regarding use of the BoGP. I know that throughout my NEW JERSEY build I referred to the BoGP quite often as a basic source of information, a starting point if you will. However, as you have clearly shown it is ONLY a beginning reference, nothing more. It should be considered as a preliminary concept, not the final product.

In the hallway of my rented mobile home (18 + years) which served as my model workshop I had the elevation sheet of the BoGP taped to the wall (after scaling to 1:200, of course!) and I used this as a large punch list for the model: as I built parts or completed the kit parts I yellowed out that part of the drawing. In the end, I only had a few items left that were not colored - and these were the items the BoGP showed which were NOT part of the 1968 version of the ship or had been changed during refit and therefore were not part of my model. At the same time, this plan provided a very good readable source of location for where items were located and the proper names and identifiers of parts that I was unfamiliar with in general.

The one thing it did not provide was the final and correct version of the ship as refitted. Without any official drawings from 1967-68, I had to rely on photos from that time period and verbal or written descriptions of details, items, and so forth which was scarce at best.

I hope this helps!

Hank
Post Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:18 pm
  Post subject:  Why you shoud never trust booklets of general plans  Reply with quote
My great frustation in one forum is that, whenever I ask a question where I have clearly done research, someone always says to go to HNSA web site and look at the booklet of general plans.

A booklet of general plans is like the map in a mall: it tells you where things generally are but the shapes can be widely distorted.

Here's an example I ran into this morning when I did the quick look at the BGP. Here is a cross section of Frame 198 from the NJ BGP and an image from the microfilm of the framing at 198 below the 3d deck.

The BGP leaves out the 11.3" slab of armor plate.

Attachment:
Frame 198.jpg
Frame 198.jpg [ 310.81 KiB | Viewed 86 times ]
Post Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 10:49 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Hmmm, I didn’t know the wraparound under the flag bridge housed a set of vents. Too late now.
Post Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:57 pm
  Post subject:  Wisconsin Boiler Room #1 Intack  Reply with quote
The air intake for boiler room #1 (not for the boilers, themselves) on the Iowas is (was) at either side of the conning tower support at the O2 level. On the Iowa and NJ these vents were originally visible:

http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016219w.jpg

But later they were protected by a wrap around, as is shown here on the Wisconsin:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016408.jpg

However now, the Wisconsin is the only one of the Iowa's lacking those shields and the intakes were plated over:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/0164007.jpg

Does anyone know how the intakes were rerouted on the Wisconsin?
Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:17 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Thanks BB62Vet
Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 2:29 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
The SK2 and similar surface & air search RADARs maintain a constant circular rotation. They do not "oscillate" back and forth as do some gunfire support RADAR units. An oscillating or "rocking" RADAR, for example, would be the MK. 13 main battery GF RADAR above the forward and after main battery optical rangefinders on IOWA class BBs. Here is a picture of this unit opened:
Attachment:
Main FC Radar Mk. 13 Open (Large).jpg
Main FC Radar Mk. 13 Open (Large).jpg [ 132.97 KiB | Viewed 329 times ]

Here is NEW JERSEY showing her full RADAR suite (1950s) above the conning tower:
Attachment:
BB62 50s Spot 1 & Radar Suite (Large).jpg
BB62 50s Spot 1 & Radar Suite (Large).jpg [ 134.94 KiB | Viewed 329 times ]


Hope this helps!
Post Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:01 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Some information required please.

Did the SK2 radar dish constantly rotate a full 360 degrees or did it only turn to port then starboard?
Or was it only pointed in a certain direction by the operator?

Thanks, David
Post Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:44 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I explored the conning tower of the NJ today. I'm not overweight but there were some tight squeezes that I barely fit through.

The O1 level has the G-2 Div. Office and RATO magazine.
The O2 level has the air intakes to Fire Room #1. They have been plated over, presumably to keep water out. There are two protected pits of death leading down to the boilers.
The O3 level is empty except for the armored door operating machinery that does not take up much space.


This the starboard side of the O2 level of the conning tower. The air intake has been plated over. During WWII a shield was added externally below the side windows of the admiral's bridge. It looks like the intake was sealed to keep water out. The ladder with a big gap at the bottom leads to the O3 level. The port side is the the same minus the ladder.

The armored tube to the conning tower is out of sight to the right. There is another armored trunk at the back end that from the armored section at the O4 levels down to the O2 level, comes and follows the overhead of CEC, goes out aft under and connecting the forward MK38 and MK37 director trunks.

Attachment:
P1040211.jpg
P1040211.jpg [ 96.04 KiB | Viewed 393 times ]


Behind the expanded metal grating there is a pit of death leading all the way down to the boiler.

Attachment:
P1040200.jpg
P1040200.jpg [ 118.1 KiB | Viewed 393 times ]


This is the port side at the O3 level. At each level there are two transverse bulkheads and one centerline bulkhead. As you move up, the two outer areas at each deck get narrower. This taken from the forward end of the middle section. The door leading to the admiral's bridge is visible through the arch. On this side there is door opening machinery that takes up very little space. The starboard side is empty.


Attachment:
P1040205.jpg
P1040205.jpg [ 75.86 KiB | Viewed 393 times ]


The O2 and O3 levels on the NJ are pretty much just empty space.

It's tough to get good pictures because the space is so cramped.
Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I've been doing deck plans for the NJ where the desired accuracy is down to 1/16". Unfortunately, this is the best quality I can share here. I am doing them in the ship's final configuration; before handicap and tourist access doors were cut and the 25mm guns were added. The result is quite different from the dreaded Shopping Mall Map Booklet of General Plans.

I've been on my knees with a tape measure quite a bit recently and found that the 80's plans were often just suggestions construction crew.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2019-04-22 at 9.49.27 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-04-22 at 9.49.27 PM.png [ 212.5 KiB | Viewed 584 times ]
Post Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:04 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
chuck wrote:
Which are strakes O and P?


They are the top two strakes, the ones with butt plates on the outside of the hull.
Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:24 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Which are strakes O and P?
Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:22 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Yes, nearly all the shell plating (and nearly everything else) is riveted. There are some places in the shell that are welded. However, it looks like they did it only where riveting would be impracticable.

The bottom of the end of the twin keel is welded. The plates at the bow around the shell bolster for the hawse pipe are weld. The plans show a lot of welds between the plates of strakes. The plates of the P and O strakes are all welded in together in the plans but there are riveted butt straps on the ship.

Here's a detail (allI can upload on this server). This is at the base of the tunnel, frame 188-1/2 to 189. The tunnel is coming to an end so things are getting smaller. Forward, the bottom plate is held to the side plate with an angled bracket with rivets. Then the bottom becomes an bent plate that forward is riveted to the angle and aft is welded to the plate above.

Attachment:
Rivets.jpg
Rivets.jpg [ 118.96 KiB | Viewed 698 times ]
Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I believe much of the shell plating were riveted in the 4 completed ships . The rivet heads are flush with the shell plating and difficult to make out under most lighting, but many can easily be made out under strongly oblique lighting.

An example is https://1drv.ms/u/s!AietPwAuPc0SjDD2HqFksWcz45b9
Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:22 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I believe much of the shell plating was welded? Certainly close examination of the above waterline shell suggests this with the notable exception of vertical butt straps on the 60# plate (By way of the citadel) which are riveted. Kentucky and Illinois were to have a higher degree of welding.
Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:18 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
It seems to me if the knuckles exactly align with strake edge, then that would complicate riveting because the two rows of rivets would be at a slight angle to eachother. It would be easier to fabricate to put the crease for the knuckle on the interior of a plate.
Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:09 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
One always wonders if this was due to design or happenstance? Certainly the design was well along when it was discovered that Bu Or designed a turret and rotating assembly over a foot larger than Bu C&R had allowed in their hull design. Certainly a plate formed with a knuckle has more longitudinal stiffness than one without. Perhaps it was advantageous to not knuckle them at the joint?
Post Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:37 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Fliger747 wrote:
The butt straps joining the 60# plate in way of the citadel and above the WL was not in my understanding joined at frames. Yes the knuckles are shown in various drawings and would be I suspect a feature to speed production, requiring less compound rolling of the shell plating. a time consuming process requiring some expertise. Such detail design was often done by the lead production yard with mind to ease, materials and speed of completion.


Interestingly, the knuckles do not match the strake edges. In most places the edges are roughly parallel but offset (by as much as a foot). In others, the strakes go across the knuckles.
Post Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:21 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
The butt straps joining the 60# plate in way of the citadel and above the WL was not in my understanding joined at frames. Yes the knuckles are shown in various drawings and would be I suspect a feature to speed production, requiring less compound rolling of the shell plating. a time consuming process requiring some expertise. Such detail design was often done by the lead production yard with mind to ease, materials and speed of completion.
Post Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:02 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I noticed the knuckles on drawings, and looked carefully on the New Jersey, Wisconsin and Iowa for them. I think for all practical purposes the knuckles are too subtle to be noticed on the real ship.
Post Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:23 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Fliger747 wrote:
Under the general heading of "Wild Ass Guess" with no corroborating evidence (no longer a modern requirement) would be that for structural reasons the butts of side plates were alternated such that they weren't aligned at the same frames?


And the strake ends appear to generally be off a frame, typically either 21" or 12". My guess at this point is the reason is to allow butt plates to be inserted.

Let me throw out another detail that is not apparent from must plan sets or hull lines shown in the books.

There are a lot of linear sections in the hull. From frame 55 to Frame 171 the sides are straight (but at various angles. After Frame 171 the upper part of the frame starts forming knuckles. For illustration, this is Frame 188. There is a distinct knuckle at each segment.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2019-03-24 at 3.53.15 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-03-24 at 3.53.15 PM.png [ 25.89 KiB | Viewed 245 times ]
Post Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:04 pm

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