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Topic review - Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
Those are some fantastic shots, thank you for sharing them!
Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:37 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
Unseen pictures ...as they were taken by my father as per the note on the reverse. Her served on Vanguard later, but was on Raider when he took these pictures


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HMS Raider

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2023 5:10 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
I would further venture to suggest that the horizontal surfaces ("A" turret roof and what I presume is the paravane house abaft the forward breakwater) visible in the upper image, are not painted dark grey either but what I believe "Dick" identified elsewhere as
"Van Dyke" brown!

81542
Post Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:29 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
81542 wrote:
Thank you, Mr Church. Those with their wits about them will also notice that the upper image has been published incorrectly: the sheet anchor should be on the starboard side.

81542


I hadn't initially spotted that but yes quite right the photo is wrongly mirror imaged. I had a quick look but couldn't seem to find any more colour photos taken at the same time. Would love to know what colour 'Y' Turret roof was at that time. In the aerial photos it shows as being distinctly different from 'A', 'B' and 'X' Turret roofs which all appear to be dark deck grey. Or rather are now proven to be dark deck grey as you can see a small portion of the roof of 'A' Turret in the first photo I posted.
Post Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:25 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
Thank you, Mr Church. Those with their wits about them will also notice that the upper image has been published incorrectly: the sheet anchor should be on the starboard side.

81542
Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:12 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
By chance while looking for something else I found some interesting colour photos taken aboard Vanguard at the time of the 1953 Coronation Review. They are not tagged as 'Vanguard' so don't come up when you search for Vanguard. They are Alamy Stock photos, copyright rests with original owner. Previews posted here for ease of viewing:

Attachment:
HMS Vanguard 1953 Spithead Review colour 1.jpg
HMS Vanguard 1953 Spithead Review colour 1.jpg [ 153.47 KiB | Viewed 10548 times ]


https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-battleships-on-show-during-the-royal-coronation-naval-fleet-at-spithead-108146805.html

Attachment:
HMS Vanguard 1953 Spithead Review colour 2.jpg
HMS Vanguard 1953 Spithead Review colour 2.jpg [ 145.11 KiB | Viewed 10548 times ]


https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-battleships-on-show-during-the-royal-coronation-naval-fleet-at-spithead-108146804.html

Curiously in contrast to my earlier post, her anchor chafing plates / rubbing strips are painted green at the time of the Coronation Review. They had reverted to brown again by the time of her scrapping.
Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:38 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
This battleship is a very interesting ship. Love that it used those old 15 inch turrets, thus maintaining a very visible link to dreadnought battleships of 30 or 40 years previous.
If I could I would post some pictures of my 1:600 scratch build. I chose this scale to go with my other Airfix fleet. Initially I toyed with converting the 1:600 KGV into a Vanguard. But this is easily the best Airfix model I've seen and so it will be built as a KGV. So I experimented with a balsa and card construction of the hull, and it sort of progressed from there.
I later discovered that Micro-masters supplies a 1:600 set of main and secondary turrets, when I was about half way through scratch building my own that turned out OK, so I decided against buying them. Seems a bit weird as I'm not aware of any kit in 1:600, other than attempting a conversion of the KGV as mentioned earlier.
The 40mm directors appear to be CRBFD's that appeared on a lot of post war British ships for various uses including as Seacat Directors. I can only imagine the number of technicians needed to keep all those radars operating. Comments on STAAG firing on HMNZS Royalist at towed targets indicated it was very accurate, demolishing the target and then tracking up the tow cable. So the number of Type 262 Radar laid 40mm barrels on this ship is truly amazing. The high command and good arcs of fire are also noteworthy. They would probably have been operable in almost any conditions, unlike many main deck positions on other ships that would be washed out in a sea way.
Post Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 6:43 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
Mr. Church wrote:

Next question is what colour were her anchor chain rubbing strips on the forecastle deck? In the footage of her being towed to the breakers in 1960 they appear to be a milk chocolate brown colour with the surrounding deck plating a medium grey colour:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db6bgu0gs-g

The grey is probably faded dark deck grey as Vanguard had been in reserve for a few years prior to the film being recorded. Anyone know off-hand if the rubbing strips were the same brown colour when she was in active service? Thanks.


Turns out I can now answer one of my own questions from August 2019 thanks to gettyimages. They have uploaded some beautiful colour photos of H.M.S. Vanguard in service that I'm sure were not there when I searched before. Including one showing the anchor rubbing strips:

https://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/news-photo/aerial-view-of-the-recently-commissioned-royal-navy-fast-news-photo/1304885893

See low resolution extract from photo here for discussion purposes only, copyright rests with gettyimages:

Attachment:
HMS Vanguard anchor rubbing strips.jpg
HMS Vanguard anchor rubbing strips.jpg [ 79.62 KiB | Viewed 11496 times ]


The anchor rubbing strips are definitely brown, same or very similar to that seen in the videos and photos of her in reserve in later years.

Interestingly also the dark grey on her forecastle deck seems darker than that on the roofs of 'A' and 'B' turrets. Hard to know is it intentionally a different & darker shade of grey or a different grade of paint? Or has it simply been repainted more recently than the turret roofs?
Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:32 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
An interesting document about H.M.S. Vanguard's radar fit. It also gives some details of her firing trials conducted during her overall trials period in May 1946:
http://www.rnmuseumradarandcommunications2006.org.uk/Radar/pdfs/RADAR%20IN%20HMS%20VANGUARD.pdf

I found it while looking for something else. As is so often the case when researching such things.
Post Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:18 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
Am continuing research into HMS Vanguard.

One thing I have noticed is that one of her Sextuple 40mm Bofors Mounts was removed in advance of the Royal Tour in 1947 and does not seem to have ever been reinstated. I am not sure what the numbering convention was for these mounts so it is the one (or the empty space rather) as highlighted in red here in an image from 1948 from Wikipedia:
Attachment:
HMSVanguardoverhead.jpg
HMSVanguardoverhead.jpg [ 383.26 KiB | Viewed 12183 times ]


Also looking through photos of her from when she first proceeded down the River Clyde in May 1946, her on sea trials and her being drydocked in 1946 it appears doubtful that she ever actually carried her full design compliment of Bofors Gun Directors and deck and superstructure mounted 40mm Bofors MkVII Single Mounts. Then her twin 40mm Bofors STAAG Mount was removed from 'B' Turret in advance of the Royal Tour of 1947.
Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
No I had not seen that. Some photos of it on Twitter here:
https://twitter.com/OstrichTony/status/1177578764076646401/photo/1
Post Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
Has anyone seen this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ostrich-Hobby-resin-kit-1-700-HMS-Battleship-Vanguard-TN700001/184209311798?hash=item2ae3bb0836:g:dOsAAOSw-exea89W
Post Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:56 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
Built up version...
http://www.laroyale-modelisme.net/t1460 ... e-hasegawa
Post Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:38 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
Hi Leo9 apologies for the late reply.

As regards Y Turret's roof I am not sure it is a quirk of the light? If you have R.A. Burt's recent HMS Vanguard book look at the aerial photo on Page 95. Y Turret's roof colour is night and day different to (brighter than) X Turret's. That photo is from January 1951. Same goes for the aerial photo on Page 103 from the Coronation Review in May 1953. Again Y Turret's roof appears night and day brighter than X Turret's. The photos are from different dates and different angles so it is hard to imagine it being a trick of the light on both occasions? Though I don't know definitively, hence my earlier question.

Around (or after?) the time she was placed in reserve it appears all four main turret roofs plus the secondary turret roofs were painted light grey. They certainly appear that way in the video footage of her being sadly towed away for scrap.
Post Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:18 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
@Mr Church

Snap, I'm just about to start my build using Hasegawa (Frog) plus Atlantic's PE - and doubtless quite a few Shapeways add-ons too. Perhaps we can compare build notes/problems: I'm sure plenty will crop up.

I'm afraid I can't answer the question of when (if) Y turret got a light-grey repaint: Somehow I suspect it didn't and it's a light artefact from the areial shot: none of the "usual" sources show it from closer in. I also suspect the "brown" anchor chain slipways/rubbing strips are only brown because of the dreadful colour distortions of the film stock. But hopefully a proper expert will be along to yea or nay this.

BTW, there are a couple of other small-scale models still available if one trawls the Net: d'Agostini/Atlas 1:1250 prebuilt and the Triang Minic 1:1200 (IIRC) kit but mainly only getttable in assembled form. There's also a rumour (and pirated box art) floating around indicating a Very Fire 1:350 kit coming along in 2020. It'd be good to learn more about this. And also worth a mention is the 1:128 hull plus extras (excluding deck & superstructure) from Fleetscale here in the UK for those with big tables and wallets. One day maybe ...

PS I'm new here after lurking awhile and absorbing lots of useful knowledge: delighted to join such a helpful and expert bunch: some of the build threads are quite breathtaking!
Post Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:08 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
I have the Hasegawa 1/450 kit and the Atlantic Models Photoetch set for it and am researching details before I start building her.
Some questions spring to mind:

Upon Vanguard's completion in 1946 the roofs of the four main battery turrets were all painted a dark colour, presumably dark grey same as the steel decks? All four turret roofs remained in a dark colour during the Royal Tour to South Africa in 1947. At some point subsequent to this the roof of 'Y' Turret seems to have been painted in light grey with the other three remaining in dark colour. 'Y' Turret roof looks to be either the same as the hull colour or perhaps very slightly darker? I have not ascertained exactly when it was changed but it was certainly light grey by January 1951 as seen in the photo on Page 95 of RA Burt's recent book on Vanguard. It was still in light grey as of the Coronation Review in 1953. Was there any particular reason for this? Vanguard was a one-off so it would seem unlikely to be an aerial recognition feature?

Next question is what colour were her anchor chain rubbing strips on the forecastle deck? In the footage of her being towed to the breakers in 1960 they appear to be a milk chocolate brown colour with the surrounding deck plating a medium grey colour:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db6bgu0gs-g

The grey is probably faded dark deck grey as Vanguard had been in reserve for a few years prior to the film being recorded. Anyone know off-hand if the rubbing strips were the same brown colour when she was in active service? Thanks.
Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:12 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
My understanding was that the 5.25 turrets were larger than those of the KGVs. The KGVs' were considered too cramp for efficient operation of the 5.25s. The smaller turrets were used to keep the displacement with in treaty limits (the same reason why 2 of the 14" were deleted).


Vanguard was designed after the treaty so weight was no longer a consideration.
Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:29 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
The "final" drawing for Vanguard. Only six CRBFD and Vickers in the after superstructure.


Attachments:
Vanguard modelwarships.png
Vanguard modelwarships.png [ 237.84 KiB | Viewed 18745 times ]
Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:16 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
Maarten Schönfeld wrote:
Quote:
...but without dimensions or plans...


Why don't you give Micro Master a note and ask him for his sources?

:thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:18 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS Vanguard (1944-1960) fans  Reply with quote
Quote:
...but without dimensions or plans...


Why don't you give Micro Master a note and ask him for his sources?
Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:29 am

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