The Ship Model Forum

Does anyone make PE detail up sets for the Trumpeter 1/700 modern Iowa models? I’m looking for something that has some etched bulkheads with details to place on the smooth bulkheads of the kit along the weather deck, and don’t want to try placing each door & pipe individually.

Sean,

The topic re. what bottles of which gas/liquid, etc. and how many were carried on board, where they were stored, etc. etc. - well, this has been beaten to death and I've tried to stay out of it. I have little/no experience with the chemical make-up of these gases/liquids and will not comment on that aspect of this subject.

I served in NEW JERSEY during her Vietnam Cruise (1968-69) and we had various racks of steel cylinders of this & that all over the ship. When I built my model of BB-62 (2012-1019) I tried to portray these stored bottles as I could from photos taken at the time. I did post replies early on in the "bottle wars" as there was a question as to "what" gases were carried aboard ship and what colors those bottles would have been painted. I recall researching the net for info on this and posted a couple charts, etc. with this info.

My best suggestion to you is that if you are building a WWII or Korean War era IOWA class BB, there are few color photos showing these stored bottles to go by - and the B/W photos really only show you [i]location[/i], not type. Use you best judgement and keep them grouped; single cannisters of one type probably wouldn't have happened. Thinking logically about the daily usage, etc. - it would be reasonable to [i]assume[/i] that the types of bottles stored in a given area may change as these bottles were expended and later replaced. With changes made during yard periods, it's quite possible the original locations of these storage racks would also have been changed. Where these cylinders were stored in 1968 were certainly not where they probably were stored in 1944 or 1953; possible, but not probable.

I hope this somewhat gives you a better feel for how to proceed, etc.

Hank

(deleted the quotes as there were 'too many?)

I'm kinda at a loss for what to say, here. I've attempted to add facts based upon reality and experience and yet others counter with innuendo, fallacy and "hear-say" because someone else typed words elsewhere on the innerwebz so then that HAS TO BE true.

The real world doesn't actually work that way. But then again, this IS a modelling site, right? So all are free to do/say/believe/construct as they see fit. Cinderella on a Speedwagon.

[quote="bigjimslade"][quote="Fliger747"]The chemistry gets a little more mathematically complex as I suspect each bottle of O2 and Acetylene probably do not contain an equal number of molecules.[/quote]

If they have the same volume and pressure they should be approximately the same.

PV = nRT[/quote]

I thought it was mentioned that acetylene in the tanks are stored as a liquid. The PV=nRT only applies to an ideal gas and would be inapplicable to stored liquid acetylene. Liquid would be much denser and contain far more miles per liter than room temperature gaseous oxygen stored under any practical pressure.

[quote="bigjimslade"]This is the largest the forum will allow:

[attachment=0]001 copy.tif[/attachment][/quote]

Do you have other files of the booklet of general plans ?

[quote="Fliger747"]Exactly...[/quote]

The volume of a mole of a gas under the same temperature and pressure is the same. Thus it should take 5 O2 Cylinders for every 2 C2H2 and that the contents of the C2H2 cylinders will weigh 2-1/2 times that of O2 when the cylinders are have the same volume and pressure.

Exactly...

[quote="Fliger747"]A mole of O2 weighs 15.9 g and a mole of Acetylene about 26.6 grams. When we combine them an equal volume of O2 will weigh less. If we combine them by weight it will take a larger volume of O2 to achieve the same desired ratio.[/quote]

But they are combined by moles; not by weight.

A mole of O2 weighs 15.9 g and a mole of Acetylene about 26.6 grams. When we combine them an equal volume of O2 will weigh less. If we combine them by weight it will take a larger volume of O2 to achieve the same desired ratio.

not the same size & pressure as a friend of mine had that setup with oxygen cylinder twice as tall as Acetylene.

[quote="Fliger747"]The chemistry gets a little more mathematically complex as I suspect each bottle of O2 and Acetylene probably do not contain an equal number of molecules.[/quote]

If they have the same volume and pressure they should be approximately the same.

PV = nRT

The chemistry gets a little more mathematically complex as I suspect each bottle of O2 and Acetylene probably do not contain an equal number of molecules.

[quote="Sean_the_Nailer"]Generally speaking, there is the basic use/consumption of 2 oxygen cylinders to 1 acetylene cylinder.[/quote]

I'm surprised that it is just 2 to 1. I would have expected 5:2 from chemistry

5 (02) + 2 (HCCH) ==> 2 (H2O) + 4(CO2)

Sean_the_Nailer, higher pressure 'gas' bottles are not made out of armor steel(AR-Abrasion Resistant). check the links below.
Acetylene tanks http://www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/pdf/standard/da2a.pdf
Oxygen tanks manufactured
https://bizfluent.com/how-does-5022450-oxygen-cylinders-made.html
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Oxygen-Tank.html

That explains why the Acetylene bottles are so heavy.

James

Just to add a bit more "use" information, and this is coming from working in the Trades. Generally speaking, there is the basic use/consumption of 2 oxygen cylinders to 1 acetylene cylinder. Even moreso when the use of a cutting torch/brass-axe is prevalent.

Also, the actual design of the acetylene bottle is considerably different than the rest, because it is at 'low pressure' compared to the tall ones that hold gasses. Acetylene is stored as a liquid, in a bottle that is filled with concrete. The porosity of the concrete allows the liquid to 'gas-off' slowly in a controlled manner, so that it is safer. Compared with the typical 'tall bottle' that holds gasses, those gasses are generally filled to ~2,200 psi. Some can be well over 4,000 psi.

Acetylene is generally stored in a bottle in its liquid state under 220 psi.

Hope that helps, and explains a bit why the acetylene bottles are physically different than the gas bottles. Another minor point to add, acetylene bottles are made out of mild-carbon steel, whereas the higher pressure 'gas' bottles are made out of armor steel.

(and, now that I realize that I was replying to a topic that appears to have been on page 199, my apologies to the masses for the completely "off-topic-at-the-moment" post) But, unless it bothers someone, I'll leave it up there simply in my attempt to contribute.

Also note that the "railing" folds flat when stowed as well.

This is a picture I took on board Missouri. You can see that the steps are folded flat.

Larry

One accommodation ladder is stowed against wardroom bulkhead on starboard side, the other is stowed against the aft end of the superstructure on the port side, where the superstructure tapers towards the aft 16” turret.

One pair of upper and lower platforms, and a bail is also stowed against the aft superstructure, on starboard side opposite the accommodation ladder. I assume these are for the aft accommodation ladder. I am not sure where their counterparts for the forward accommodation ladders are stowed.

The leadsman’s platforms were stowed against startboard side toward, just behind B turret barbette.

I'll have to look at my photos of the fwd accommodation ladder, stbd side against the wardroom area bulkhead. It looks as I recall as if the "steps" rotate and store flat as well as the railings. I'll look for the photos. Aft I recall seeing a photo somewhere with the accommodation laddes stowed awarthships aft of turret three.