The Ship Model Forum

The floating dry dock plans show acetylene cylinders were distinctly different from oxygen cylinders, acetylene cylinders being short and fat.

I think this may even be some kind of international standard during the WWII era. There are photos of tank repair depots on the eastern front that showed both the Russians and Germans used a tall skinny cylinder and a short fat cylinder in their portable oxyacetylene welding and cutting equipment.

[quote="bigjimslade"][quote="chuck"]So what gas to those extra long skinny cylinders contain?[/quote]

I have a pile of blueprints for gas cylinder storage for different gas types from the 1980s. I never looked closely but will have to go through to see what they have.

I know there is oxygen, helium, acetylene, nitrogen. Probably others as well.[/quote]

I found CO2 and "medical gas" as well.

The plans for the Acetylene and Oxygen tank racks are identical so the cylinders would have to be the same size for both.

Good question as the floats aboard battleships of the period typically were painted to match the camouflage scheme. Today the life rings are white.

Another question, guys. What color were the round life preservers on the Iowa class ships during WWII?

[quote="chuck"]So what gas to those extra long skinny cylinders contain?[/quote]

I have a pile of blueprints for gas cylinder storage for different gas types from the 1980s. I never looked closely but will have to go through to see what they have.

I know there is oxygen, helium, acetylene, nitrogen. Probably others as well.

I understand the shorter fatter cylinders are acetylene. I still never found any source of information that say exactly what type of gas are in the longer cylinders. I imagine many of them would be oxygen to use with acetylene for welding and cutting. But the gas ratio used of oxyacetylene welding is roughly 1 to 1, so on the Missouri there should be roughly one long oxygen cylinder for each fat acetylene cylinder if they are under similar pressures. Clearly there are far more long skinny cylinders than short fat ones. So what gas to those extra long skinny cylinders contain?

Found it!! This was what I was looking for!

[attachment=0]Compressed Gas Cylinder ID - 1044.jpg[/attachment]

This MIL-STD is current. I'm looking for the color identification back in 1944.

[quote="steinerman"]Hi Folks,

Some time ago on this thread a fellow posted a page out of a book that had the colors of various compressed gas tanks. If I remember right the tanks were pretty much all black with the tops painted different colors to identify the gas inside. This picture is no longer available due to Photobucket's fiasco.

Is there anybody out there who might possibly have saved a copy of this photo and could either post it here or PM it to me. I thought I kept a copy but I can't find it anywhere.
[/quote]

You're looking for "MIL-STD-101B". Put that into DuckDuckGo and you'll get a lot of download locations.

Hi Folks,

Some time ago on this thread a fellow posted a page out of a book that had the colors of various compressed gas tanks. If I remember right the tanks were pretty much all black with the tops painted different colors to identify the gas inside. This picture is no longer available due to Photobucket's fiasco.

Is there anybody out there who might possibly have saved a copy of this photo and could either post it here or PM it to me. I thought I kept a copy but I can't find it anywhere.

Thanks,

Larry

I upgraded and converted a 1:192 wooden model that I had built some 40 plus years earlier to a modern version of the Missouri. A lot more work than one might imagine. at least with a wooden model a lot easier to eliminate "stuff" such as gun tubs and other surgeries.

One thing that was invaluable was a couple of trips to the ship itself and taking of hundreds of photographs.

For the most part a scratch project, many fun challenges! Enjoy!

[quote="wojtekp90"]Hello I have a question.
A colleague owns Iowa on a scale of 1/200 I have a question whether it can be converted into versions after modernization after 1980?
Where can the original dimensions of the superstructure be found?[/quote]

I assume you mean the 1/200 Iowa kit from trumpeter. If you intend to use the original superstructure of the basis and core of the new superstructure, then keep in mind the dimension of trumoeter’s original superstructure is not entirely accurate, and different parts of the superstructure does not align completely with each other in accordance to how they do so on the real ship. So in your scratch building you will need to consider how the new built parts will align with existing parts of the trumpeter superstructure you intend to keep.

[quote]BoGPs do not contain dimensions or other engineering design properties that would be found on actual drawings/plans, etc.[/quote]
BB62vet is right, BUT:

As the frame locations are shown on the drawings in these BoGPs, and the frame distance is known (usually 4 ft or 48" throughout in USN battleships) it is very easy to accurately enlarge these drawings to the size/scale you want them. How do I know this distance? In the first pages of the BoGP the 'distance between perpendiculars' is given as 860 ft, in the drawings you can find that the aft perpendicular (rudder axis) is at frame 215 (the forward perpendicular is at frame 0). Divide 860 by 215 = 4 ft!

Just use a predefined grid in your drawing tool (I use CorelDraw) and align the frames with this grid. In your case the grid distance should be 0.24" (48"/200) for a an Iowa class battleship in 1:200 scale. Then stretch the drawing so that all frames match with the grid along the entire hull length. You'll find this procedure is VERY accurate.

BTW: by identifying the location of e.g. a bulkhead with its frame number, you can also calculate its distance to other locations (e.g. a turret) in the ship. And that's EXACT. Find the distance in frames, then multiply by 4, then divide by the desired scale, e.g. 1/200.

Note: 4 ft seems to be a sort of standard in the USN for BBs and Carriers, other ships though may have different frame distances, so look closely what's needed in your case.

wojtekp90 wrote:
[quote]Hello I have a question.
A colleague owns Iowa on a scale of 1/200 I have a question whether it can be converted into versions after modernization after 1980?
Where can the original dimensions of the superstructure be found?[/quote]

In addition to Maarten's reply, I would add that the same inherent hull problems still exist in the kit. There are available online the 1982 Booklet of General Plans of NEW JERSEY which show the modernization done to that particular ship. IOWA will NOT be the same, but similar. The BoGF can be printed out at 0.96% for a 1/200 scale plan of the ship. Rule of thumb: BoGPs are NOT how the ship was actually built but how is was envisioned to be (modernized) constructed.

BoGPs do not contain dimensions or other engineering design properties that would be found on actual drawings/plans, etc.

Using this kit would probably end up being more scratchbuilding than I had to do when I kit-bashed my NEW JERSEY (1968-69) model. Most of the superstructure would be modified.

Hope this helps,

[quote="wojtekp90"]Hello I have a question.
A colleague owns Iowa on a scale of 1/200 I have a question whether it can be converted into versions after modernization after 1980?
Where can the original dimensions of the superstructure be found?[/quote]
I would recommend the book 'Iowa Class Battleships' by Robert F. Sumrall, [url]https://www.amazon.com/Iowa-Class-Battleships-Weapons-Equipment/dp/0870212982[/url]
This book contains a large section on drawings, dimensions andsoforth. In my view the first reference Bible when modelling any of these ships, in the entire period of their life.

Hello I have a question.
A colleague owns Iowa on a scale of 1/200 I have a question whether it can be converted into versions after modernization after 1980?
Where can the original dimensions of the superstructure be found?

I sawed off the hull abaft the superstructure, and rebuilt it using FDD plans and styrene and bulkhead construction:

[url]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ajtk5jxqngz7ypj/Photo%20Apr%2013%2C%2010%2058%2035%20AM.jpg?dl=0[/url]

[url]https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6t9r52ae4cq5vm/Photo%20Apr%2013%2C%2010%2059%2025%20AM.jpg?dl=0[/url]

[url]https://www.dropbox.com/s/7w02hbk9awvvnxg/Photo%20Apr%2013%2C%2010%2058%2051%20AM.jpg?dl=0[/url]

I also built up the bulbous forefoot:

[url]https://www.dropbox.com/s/d9gyjv9pxd4df19/Photo%20Apr%2013%2C%2010%2059%2006%20AM.jpg?dl=0[/url]

I basically did that also on my build and I may have included some of that description during the process. I can't recall exactly. It's in the Completed forum for those who wish to read it.

I'm trying to stay away from telling another modeler what construction methods to use on this kit - that's something they've got to figure out for themselves. In this situation there are quite a few ways to skin the proverbial cat, so to speak!

the bow area I would build it up with .040"(1mm) plastic strips, let the glue cure then carve with knife, grind with Dremel tool then sand to shape. that is what I do on my OBB kitbash.
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165105
did that also on my 1/144 Warspite & Mitscher.

Wojtekp90,

OK, here is a recap of what & how I did the hull mods on my model. I reshaped both the lower bow and lower stern areas to more closely imitate the actual shape of the ship in which the kit hull is incorrect. The following photos and text are from a log I had planned to post, but I don't think I ever got around to it at the time (2016). Anyhow, there are photos of the station templates that I made (I've replied to your msg.) in place and you basically do the same in the stern area where you need to reshape the hull. Other photos of the hull are as I worked on it during the grinding down procedures.
Lower Bow:
[attachment=4]Hull in Stand wStation Marks (Large).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=3]Fwd Bow wTemplates Close Up (Large).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=2]Templates for Sta 6 & 7 (Large).JPG[/attachment]

Lower Stern:
[attachment=1]From Stern_1 small.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]Port Side Shaped_resized.JPG[/attachment]

From my Hull Modification Log:
Preparations, etc:
The hull of the model needs to be mounted upside down on a stationary surface, so I shaped two basswood stands (one fwd, one aft) that could be bolted into the hull cross members with a couple small machine bolts on each stand. I then bolted the stand to my work surface to keep the model steady without movement.

The modeler will need a scaled set of hull templates to work from for the two areas that will be modified. These can be obtained by copying the body plan of the IOWA class from a good set of ship’s plans available from various online sources. You will need t cut out the various station elevations and mount on hardboard/cardboard etc. These will form the shape of the hull at that particular station along the length of the hull. The stations work out to be ¼” apart (1:200 scale) although I probably will only use every 3rd or 4th station (3/4” – 1” apart).

Lower After Hull Modification:
This modification includes the part of the hull that is 19” from the absolute stern of the model going aft about 4-5, possibly 6” inches in length.

The two areas of the hull that I modified were the two areas described above. One other area of the lower hull that is not correct would be the area below Turret 2 – I did not attempt to modify this part as it is not that much out of shape and is something I could “live with” as is.

Simply put, the bow area needs to be [b]built out [/b]and reshaped as it is too narrow while the after section needs [b]removal[/b] as it is too wide and misshaped. I started with the bow area and finished with the after section.

As I mentioned to you, all my modeling stuff is packed up - otherwise I would include a copy or two of the templates so you could see how they are printed out.

Before doing anything - I would write out a Build Plan for yourself - how you plan to do the model, what comes first (I would recommend any hull changes be made at the start), an orderly list of construction and so forth. I call this a Punch List - something to go by and check off as you complete. This model is a major undertaking, even for experienced modelers.

I hope this helps!

Hank