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Topic review - Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
That would make sense as the equipment is different.
Post Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:37 am
  Post subject:  Trivia  Reply with quote
Since it has been dead here recently, a little trivia:

The trainer and pointer hoods on the 16-gun turrets are not mirrors of each other. They are slightly different on each side.
Post Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:37 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Interesting photo, the bow tubs having a very short extra ready box, one that I hadn't seen before. The twin and singles had the same working circle of 60" radius, but as noted previously perhaps the idea was to increase the trainable arc a bit more, after all the Divine Wind was blowing at the time.

Thanks for sharing the images!

Tom
Post Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:01 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
As built the shield is straight:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016253.jpg

It looks like it was "blistered" during her 1945 refit at Puget Sound
I would bet it was to receive a 20mm twin mount in that location.
http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016209o.jpg

Bow gun tub has also been "blistered":
http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016294.jpg

James
Post Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:49 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
I just meant it'd remove the physical possibility for the gunner to move into the curved area in the heat of battle while trying to hit a plane moving across the ship's stern.
Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:10 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Timmy C wrote:
The bowing out would allow the gunner to aim the gun aft and inboard; perhaps they decided that wasn't a great idea and the likelihood of the gun being aimed at parts of the ship itself (e.g. crane) outweighed the benefits?


Except that the guns are in the same location for both. It might have given more downward angle to remove the curve.
Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:03 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
The bowing out would allow the gunner to aim the gun aft and inboard; perhaps they decided that wasn't a great idea and the likelihood of the gun being aimed at parts of the ship itself (e.g. crane) outweighed the benefits?
Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:05 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Does anyone know why the shield on USS New Jerseys 20 gallery next to turret no. 3 was changed? We we following the weld lines on the exposed deck yesterday and were puzzled by the plans. This is a 1945 plan:

Attachment:
1945.jpg
1945.jpg [ 148.12 KiB | Viewed 454 times ]


Here is picture from June 1945 showing the gallery is bowed out in front of the 20mm twin mount:

http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016209o.jpg

In this later plan (1947 or later, dates largely unreadable), the gallery shield is straight:

Attachment:
1947.jpg
1947.jpg [ 218.23 KiB | Viewed 454 times ]


It's not bowed out in there Korean War pictures

http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016248a.jpg
http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016248a.jpg

This seems to be an odd change to make.
Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:16 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
I can imagine.

The Battleship New Jersey Museum's video about the teak deck really explains it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhvWGXFX0GE&t=53s
Post Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:03 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
I add that USS New Jersey Museum pulled up the planking in this area a long time ago because this rubber/wood/adhesive combination oozed into a giant mess. It has recently been covered with teak. Generally, the USS New Jersey strives for 1980's–90's accuracy but here beauty triumphed.
Post Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:22 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Fliger747 wrote:
Interesting the "Joy Z" has three light turret roofs. An ID feature? As BJS noted much of the after deck was covered by a rubbery mat non skid wire as the Helicopter deck and ramp were non skid on steel. Mo at various times had her whole after decking cover with the stuff aft of the aft MK38 and forward of the Heli Ramp. Some others had wooden walkways left in.

As to the "anchor deck" note the black between the anchor chains.

T


I don't think it was a specific ID feature for New Jersey, she would have been the only Iowa Class in commission at the time of that photo in 1983. So her silhouette likely spoke for itself. I'm not sure what the reasoning for the light grey was? Personally I think it looks better than the dark grey, well in 1980's configuration anyway. In any case New Jersey later had her turret roofs painted dark grey. Not sure of the exact date, but they were certainly dark grey by the time this photo was taken in 1985:

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/photography/ships-us/ships-us-n/uss-new-jersey-bb62/330-cfd-dn-st-87-06864.html

Same with Iowa, she had light grey main gun turret roofs on her sea trials but they seem to have been repainted dark grey upon her 1984 recommissioning or some time thereabouts.

Missouri to my knowledge never had light grey main gun turret roofs anytime during her 1980s era service from 1986-1992.

While Wisconsin had light grey main gun turret roofs throughout her all too short 1980's service life from 1988-1991.
Post Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:59 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
True Jim, that alone will make it look different even if both start out as similar colours. They will deteriorate differently when in use. The anti-skid material usually looks very dark but in some photos it appears much lighter. Whether it's wet or dry or viewed in sunlight or dull light makes a big difference too.

This photo from NARA gives a good indication of the anti-skid material as applied to the roof of Iowa's Turret No. 3. and to her fantail:

https://nara.getarchive.net/media/a-view-of-the-stern-of-the-battleship-uss-iowa-bb-61-with-a-pioneer-i-remotely-0d595e

Photo re-posted for ease of viewing & discussion. copyright rests with NARA:

Attachment:
a-view-of-the-stern-of-the-battleship-uss-iowa-bb-61-with-a-pioneer-i-remotely-0d595e.jpg
a-view-of-the-stern-of-the-battleship-uss-iowa-bb-61-with-a-pioneer-i-remotely-0d595e.jpg [ 115.92 KiB | Viewed 141 times ]


The anti-skid material appears much more prominent on the turret roofs in photos of Iowa than on any of the other sisters for some reason.
Post Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:37 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Mr. Church wrote:
I've always wondered were the flight decks meant to be a different shade of grey to the rest of the anti-skid deck? Or it it simply a case of different areas of deck getting repainted at different times in nominally the same colour but ending up being differently weathered due to newer and older sections being done and hence looking different?

In the photo of Iowa above, the helicopter pad and small ramp section look darker than the rest of the anti-skid coating, whereas on New Jersey it is the other way around and the helicopter pad and small ramp are lighter than the rest of the anti-skid coating!


They are entirely different materials. On the U.S.S. New Jersey, the ramp and helipad are painted. The section forward of the ramp is unpainted, textured rubber .
Post Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:54 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Interesting the "Joy Z" has three light turret roofs. An ID feature? As BJS noted much of the after deck was covered by a rubbery mat non skid wire as the Helicopter deck and ramp were non skid on steel. Mo at various times had her whole after decking cover with the stuff aft of the aft MK38 and forward of the Heli Ramp. Some others had wooden walkways left in.

As to the "anchor deck" note the black between the anchor chains.

T
Post Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:45 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
All four Iowa Classes had the anti-skid coating aft in the 1980s. Though all had different areas covered. See comparison below between Iowa and New Jersey, photos from Wikipedia:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_high_angle_port_beam_view_of_the_battleship_USS_IOWA_(BB_61)_underway_off_the_coast_of_Virginia_-_DPLA_-_58f7642fb49b895186dd150884f06e15.jpeg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_port_beam_view_of_the_battleship_USS_NEW_JERSEY_(BB_62)_underway_-_DPLA_-_3ba29a95c785f96bd98d5cf5e83092c7.jpeg

Cropped and re-posted for ease of viewing:

Attachment:
Iowa.jpeg
Iowa.jpeg [ 102.15 KiB | Viewed 202 times ]

Attachment:
New Jersey.jpeg
New Jersey.jpeg [ 155.62 KiB | Viewed 202 times ]


I've always wondered were the flight decks meant to be a different shade of grey to the rest of the anti-skid deck? Or it it simply a case of different areas of deck getting repainted at different times in nominally the same colour but ending up being differently weathered due to newer and older sections being done and hence looking different?

In the photo of Iowa above, the helicopter pad and small ramp section look darker than the rest of the anti-skid coating, whereas on New Jersey it is the other way around and the helicopter pad and small ramp are lighter than the rest of the anti-skid coating!
Post Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:07 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
One thing I will add on colors is that the area around Turret No. 3 on U.S.S. New Jersey during the 80's–90'a is a rubber, nonskid mat over epoxy over rotten teak.

It looks like bare metal in photos.

I don't know of any of the other ships had the same done.
Post Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:05 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Attachment:
mo from bridge_MG_6195.jpg
mo from bridge_MG_6195.jpg [ 309.3 KiB | Viewed 233 times ]


Apparently suffering from CRS (Can't remember "stuff"). Here is the photo taken on a day not long after a rain. I think I have a sunny one somewhere. Note that the Turret 1 has a light grey top. May have to re do my model if this is correct. Several photos I have seen of Mo underway seem to show the after wooden deck area stained, though this is not currently the situation. Sort of blending in, though not totally, with the deck gray of the helicopter operating area.

Harrumph!
Post Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:53 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Will fetch up my 2013 photo from the same spot. Both turrets deck grey and foredeck darker.

Tom
Post Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:18 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
There is one on Wikipedia from 2008, not sure has she been repainted since? Photo reposted for ease of viewing:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Missouri_watching_over_USS_Arizona_-_Pearl_Harbor.jpg

Attachment:
USS_Missouri_watching_over_USS_Arizona_-_Pearl_Harbor.jpg
USS_Missouri_watching_over_USS_Arizona_-_Pearl_Harbor.jpg [ 181.51 KiB | Viewed 262 times ]


No 1 Main gun turret has a light grey roof on the museum ship. I have never seen a photo of it like that in active service. Not on Missouri in the 1980s and early 1990s anyway. Not to say one definitely does not exist or that it definitely never happened. The turret could also be open to the public and repainted light grey for heat reduction reasons like on New Jersey? I don't know, have never been to the Missouri Museum. It is on the list to do for sure though.

New Jersey had light grey main gun turret roofs initially in the early 1980s, later repainted darker deck grey. Same with Iowa, she had light grey main gun turret roofs on her sea trials but they seem to have been repainted dark grey upon her 1984 recommissioning or some time thereabouts. Missouri to my knowledge never had light grey main gun turret roofs anytime from 1986-1992. While Wisconsin had light grey main gun turret roofs throughout her all too short 1980's service life from 1988-1991.

Another photo her of Missouri from 1991 from Wikipedia. Again reposted for ease of viewing:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Sacramento_(AOE-1)_replenishes_USS_Missouri_(BB-63),_circa_in_1991.jpg

Attachment:
1024px-USS_Sacramento_(AOE-1)_replenishes_USS_Missouri_(BB-63),_circa_in_1991.jpg
1024px-USS_Sacramento_(AOE-1)_replenishes_USS_Missouri_(BB-63),_circa_in_1991.jpg [ 155.77 KiB | Viewed 262 times ]


So yeah it all depends on when exactly you intend to portray your ship and how much you want to look into it.
Post Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:10 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
As to the Missouri museum ship I haven’t measured the reflectivity of the deck paint though I could have if I had been interested. I can only comment that it appears to be the standard deck gray. The interior of the ship is controlled much as with ships that had been in the reserve fleet wit regards to temp and humidity.

This does however reinforce the principle that museum ships are not completely primary sources. Somewhere I have photos taken from the bridge which show the turret tops well.

Tom
Post Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:22 pm

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