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Topic review - Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Kagero is accurate enough to be very useful for visualizing many of the arrangements in 3D. But it is not accurate enough to be a detail reference.
Post Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:36 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Jim is correct. The Floating Drydock plans are an excellent source of detail. I have both the big set (almost 9 ft long!) and the smaller 1/192 set, as well as the PDF booklet. Another source is the Kagero book of 3D drawings by Stefan Draminski, if you can find it. Be careful here, though, because there are some errors in it here and there. Also, take some time and read through this thread. There is a wealth of information here
Post Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:59 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
wojtekp90 wrote:
I am primarily interested in hull plans, deck plans, superstructures and other details with dimensions.

I found such books:
Iowa Class Battleship by Lester Abbey
USS Missouri (BB-63): America's Last Battleship
Battleship Missouri: An Illustrated History

Does anyone know what they contain?


The Floating Dry Dock's Plan Book is the only source I have seen outside the original blueprints with dimensions. It covers the Missouri at the end of WWII. The dimensions are accurate.

"Battleship Missouri: An Illustrated History" is mainly a historical narrative. There are some deck plans in the appendix but they are small.
Post Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:00 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Wojtek,

I would suggest you read thru the following sub-forums and see what information others have already posted regarding the IOWA Class BBs:

Picture Post/Works in Progress & Completed Builds
CASF/IOWA Class Battleships
Completed Builds - Fully Documented
Online Scratchbuild Projects

There is a lot of information out there regarding IOWA Class BBs, plans, drawings, details, etc. - Yes, it will take some time to read thru all this, but remember - other members took our time to post all of it for others (such as yourself) to use.
Post Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:32 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
I am primarily interested in hull plans, deck plans, superstructures and other details with dimensions.

I found such books:
Iowa Class Battleship by Lester Abbey
USS Missouri (BB-63): America's Last Battleship
Battleship Missouri: An Illustrated History

Does anyone know what they contain?
Post Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:22 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
That was the information I tried, and failed, to find yesterday! Dates and particulars on the King Board conference!
So it turns out the directions were in place earlier than I'd thought, but it still remains: Since Iowa was laid down in mid-1940, and the King Board improvement plan came out in December 1940,Iowa and New Jersey must have gone into construction with 1.1" mounts still on the plans. But I even more strongly suspect now that when the plans were subsequently modified they probably skipped over the phase of adding tubs to the 1.1" quads, and simply deleted them entirely and went straight to 40s with tubs.
Yes, it's wild how quickly these things changed.
- Sean F.
Post Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:33 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
wojtekp90 wrote:
I have a question, what bibliography and books Iowa and Missouri do you recommend to build these ships?


What kinds of things are you interested in?
Post Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:20 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
The question about WHAT AA-weapons were planned for the USS IOWA class (and other USN ships) was driven by the outbreak of war in Europe and the experience feedback from the UK to the USA. In the Spring of 1940, Adm. King initiated a board to study ANTI-AIRCRAFT DEFENSE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE FLEET. It was realized that the current "medium-AA weapon", the quad 1.1-in gun mount was inadequate. Several alternatives were studied, until the Swedish Bofors was considered to be a better option that "could" be produced in relatively short order. A sample "twin 40-mm" Bofors mount arrived in the USA in August 1940. Comparative testing took place and BuOrd was impressed with the guns performance, but soon realized that this weapon as it was produced in Sweden, had problems for mass production. Most of the components were "tailor" fitted for each gun. The USN preceded to redesign the guns for US production lines with interchangeable parts. This all took time and mounts produced in the USA and settling license agreements with Sweden, means that mounts weren't ready until early 1942. Even then they couldn't be installed until new fire control systems were also, developed and put into production. The first "production" twin 40-mm mounts were delivered in May 1942. The first shipboard mounts on "fighting" ships and not training ships, took place in about July 1942.

The King Board AA-Defense Improvement Plan came out in December 1940. The 40-mm guns were to be the ULTIMATE medium AA weapon, but quad 1.1-in mount was considered to be the best "INTERIM" option. Even then, production of the quad 1.1-in mounts lagged demand and single 3-in/50 guns were installed as a stop-gap weapon.

What this means is that depending on when given drawings of the new IOWA class were drawn, AND when the ships in that class were scheduled to be completed, the weapons in those plans that were to be installed could change. The first two IOWA's design in 1938 included quad 1.1-in and 50-cal MGs. However, they were laid down in 1940. This would mean that the "Build Plans" would have been altered with the previously planned quad 1.1-in mounts being replaced by 40-mm mounts and the 50-cal MGs replaced by 20-mm guns.

This is a VERY short summary of USN AA-weapons development from 1939 to 1942. Lots of reference material goes into the ugly details. :cool_2:
Post Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:29 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
I have a question, what bibliography and books Iowa and Missouri do you recommend to build these ships?
Post Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:27 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
I could not find a picture of this detail so I made one. This is the transition from double bottom to triple bottom. The triangular sheet is the rider plate on the keel.
Attachment:
P1050748.jpg
P1050748.jpg [ 230.66 KiB | Viewed 237 times ]
Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:37 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
No, none of the tubs on the as-completed Iowa were meant for 1.1" quads. Sorry if my musings caused any confusion on that point.

As for drawings with them, it's quite possible that 1.1" tubs may never have been drawn... if I recall correctly the tubs, along with other AA shielding, only started to be added to USN ships in mid or late 1941, after the Iowa's construction had begun - hence their absence from the early model. Maybe the Navy got around to drawing in the 1.1" gun tubs as a modification to the initial drawings; or maybe they skipped over it and went straight to the exciting new Bofors that they could reasonably assume would be available before Iowa completed. That is to say, ships in-service or nearing completion would need the tubs and shields right away and couldn't wait for the 40s to arrive, while the Iowas and Essexes wouldn't be ready until later anyway.

- Sean F.
Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:43 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Fliger747 wrote:
When the ships were designed were any of the tubs originally intended for 1.1"?


The Iowa class were conceived with 1.1". Construction started before the 40mm was adopted. The switch from 1.1" to 40mm took place rapidly and the number of guns was greatly increased. By the time they got to building the tubs, the switch had been made. The tubs were all designed for 40mm guns. The openings in the centers of the tub floors are all measured for 40mm guns.

It is possible that designs existed for 1.1" guns in tubs but I have yet to see one. There are drafted plans to mount 3" twins in the tubs.

The 40mm plans start in the fall of 1942, around the time the Iowa was launched.
Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:27 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
That same image is in Garzke & Dulin. Definitely showed the stretched SODAK look.
Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:34 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
SeanF wrote:
Fliger747 wrote:
When the ships were designed were any of the tubs originally intended for 1.1"?


In a broad sense, yes... Though no tubs are there, it looks like the standard prewar battleship allocation of four 1.1" quads is in evidence on the early design model. As are range clocks!
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016175.jpg

(Sometimes I think it might be fun to build a "completed as contracted" version of an Iowa, South Dakota, or Essex class vessel - just to see people's reaction to that something that's not quite right...)

- Sean F.



The model pictured In the link above represented a stage in the design evolution before the drawings were prepared by New York navy yard. Here the hull side above top of the armored belt was not plated in, and the ship still carried a range of boats midship. There was a later much more detailed builder’s model reflecting the construction drawing that showed the ship in essentially the same configuration as seen on the Iowa at the time of commissioning. It was dated 1941. That model showed all the 40mm tubs on the superstructure, and 2 40mm tubs at the fantail.
Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:08 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
That would be fun!
Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:05 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Fliger747 wrote:
When the ships were designed were any of the tubs originally intended for 1.1"?


In a broad sense, yes... Though no tubs are there, it looks like the standard prewar battleship allocation of four 1.1" quads is in evidence on the early design model. As are range clocks!
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016175.jpg

(Sometimes I think it might be fun to build a "completed as contracted" version of an Iowa, South Dakota, or Essex class vessel - just to see people's reaction to that something that's not quite right...)

- Sean F.
Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:38 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
When the ships were designed were any of the tubs originally intended for 1.1"?
Post Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:19 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Based on what I've seen, the floor of all 40mm Bofor tubs that were originally planned for the ships, and show on the Bureau of ships drawing room model, was steel decking, maybe with tread pattern plates. These remained steel throughout the war. These include all the 40mm tubs on the superstructure, and the 2 on the fantail. But main deck level 40mm tubs that were added after Iowa's shake down cruise, which include the 2 forward of A turret and the 2 abreast of the C turret, had plank floors. On the other 3 ships of the class, eventhough these tubs were included right from the start, their floors were still planked. The 40mm bofor tub added on top of main turret had steel floors.
Post Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Finishing detail on '43 Iowa  Reply with quote
stevegallacci wrote:
After a long pause, I'm getting back into working on my Trumpeter conversion of the Iowa in spirng of '43 configuration. Have pretty good images and such for most of the details, including the new "Anatomy of the Ship" book. A little finishing question (may have brought this up here some years ago before I dropped out). It appears that there was unpainted (?) linolium (?) on the unplanked decks during the '43 shake down. Only have a few photos that suggest it, most clearly in the 40mm tubs and maybe elsewhere. Any insight?


I stumbled upon a plan today showing "Asbestos Mats" on some of the superstructure decking.

I've tried to upload the relevant parts but the web site will note allow me to do so.
Post Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:23 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
chuck wrote:
FWIW; I discovered a couple of other minor errors in FDD’s missouri plan:

2. between the 2nd and 3rd 5” mount, on deck 002, FDD shows there are 2 oerlikon mounts on a platform. But photos in both late 1944 and late 1945 clearly show 3 mounts there.

http://navalwarfare.blogspot.com/2013/08/uss-renshaw-dd-499-dde-499.html


Every picture of the Missouri in service I could find did show three mounts there. The plans for the New Jersey show every 20mm has a 5' working radius and only two mounts in that location. The platform looks the same size as on the Missouri. There is not enough room for 3 guns and a 5' working radius to they probably they just had the guns and wedged them in there. Unless the mount had a gyro sight, all it took to install a 20mm mount was to bolt it down. The 1947 BGP for the Missouri shows two guns in that location and has a note that the center gun was removed. The outer gun mounts are shown farther apart than on the NJ.
Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:41 am

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