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Topic review - At 'Em Arizona Fans!
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Yes, tks 66misos!

I think this chain system allows to replace the paravane cable when it is broken, the fitting under the bow is brought back on board thanks to the chain, the new cable can then be passed back in the loop which is on the chain, then it is enough to pull on the chain of the opposite edge to lower the loop under the bow. There is of course another system for the other side.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:41 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Hi,
picture from https://archives.imeche.org/archive/institution-history/first-world-war/paravanes?ipage=3:
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Info/quote from http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8736
Most ships have two continuous loops of chain passing down from either side of the bow through a ring at the forefoot of the bow. A tow wire to the paravane is shackled to a loop at the bow and then the looped chain chain pulled through to take the towpoint down to the forefoot...
A chain or heavy wire takes a towpoint for the paravanes down the ship's bow to the forefoot and the vane flies through the water, with its tow-wire going back from the bow at maybe 30-35 deg to the centreline...

Rigging on the deck http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12942&hilit=contour+gauge&start=1860#p736085
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http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12942&start=2320#p824323
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My understanding is when paravans are on the deck, then rigging looks exactly like at these photos. However, when paravans are in the water in their "working positions", then long rigging line pulling the paravan chain will be on the right, while short rigging line will be on the left. Am I correct?

66misos
Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:26 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Hello David, it’s not my model, found this example on internet.

I know for the paravans cables . My question is about chains.
Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:35 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Iceman, you might want to replace the 3 loop cable near the deck as should be thinner as all those cables are for the use of the paravanes.
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... 85-2_a.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/BB39/BOGP/
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... /BOGP.html
Post Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:34 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
I am also curious about this topic -- I know from studying booklets of general plans that the chains running from the open chocks at the bow down to the paravane gear forefoot at the base of the stem are "paravane downhaul chains", but I have not yet seen any kind of diagram or procedure for "how" the paravanes were streamed. I'm hoping some of the more knowledgeable folks on this board can shed some light!
Post Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:22 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
What is the purpose of these chains? Paravans? Tk.

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:32 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Jeff Sharp wrote:
Here are some stills from outtake footage from the April 1, 1941 film aboard Arizona. This footage did not make the final cut in the film.


Which film is this Jeff, and where can someone get a copy of it?
Post Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:02 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
the section between the hull side & just before the pipe connections & bolted down caps is the armor plate with the rest of the distance to the outside is the top of the torpedo bulge.
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... B39_09.jpg
Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:58 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Here are some stills from outtake footage from the April 1, 1941 film aboard Arizona. This footage did not make the final cut in the film.
This first look is two stills spliced together to get an overall look at the crew preparing the main deck for holystoning. Besides hosing down the deck, crew members are spreading sand on the deck.
The structures seen here from left to right are the base of the large vent in front of the base of the projector booth. Behind the booth is the loudspeaker scaffolding structure that was a permanent fixture on the ship in 1941. This scaffold was in this exact position on the ship when she sank. Behind that you can see turret #4 with the ladder going up the side.
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This next image shows the crew spreading the sand even more with mops. Her degaussing cables are visible along the deck edge.
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Holystoning in process. Portions of this footage made it into the final film. I would like to try to identify the officer in this shot.
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An interesting note about the ladder on the side of turret #4. It was not attached to the side of the turret. It extended away from the turret to be able to clear the barbette as seen in this view.
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The final film also shows the launch of 1-O-2. The outtakes show the return of this aircraft.
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Finally, the outtakes give us a look at details of the top of her torpedo bulge on her hull
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:57 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
66misos wrote:
Interesting info about the piece of USS Arizona exhibited at Pearl Harbor Aviation Museum, on Ford Island in Pearl Harbor.

Is it the only piece there? Will they exhibit also another pieces? Seems that there is still USS Arizona wreckage at Waipio Point, PH and http://ussarizonafacts.org/remnant1.htm

I wonder if one could recognize the shade of the paint on the piece of the USS Arizona hull.



That wreckage at Waipio Point is still there per this satellite image.
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:53 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Looks like she might have some rafts on the top of turret #2 in the second photo.
Post Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:51 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
More footage of Arizona Aug. '41

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
This video shows the bomb hole on Arizona's port side midships just before the break in the deck that went through the Executive Officers office and exploded in the Meat Locker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnSDNNgJG80

The blue dots on these plans show roughly where this bomb entered and detonated.
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Another bomb supposedly penetrated the deck just aft of the port side gun tub on the main deck.

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Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:20 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
This is a great look at how much everything forward of the boat cranes was scorched by the flames. I highly doubt that piece is showing 5-L from her superstructure. I think Tracy is spot on with it being an interior piece. Keep in mind also that only the tripod legs had both 5-L and 5-D (S). No superstructure bulkhead had both paints.
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Post Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:53 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Tracy White wrote:
To the first point - it's also possible that this chunk was interior structure in way of the crews galley, casemate guns, and various shops underneath the boat deck. The bulkheads and overhead in these areas were generally white, and the boat deck wreckage would have been a cover for these spaces.

To your second point, National Parks Service Ranger Danny Martinez was one of the main drivers of the Blue paint theory and had at least some access to the wreckage before it was all moved. I would expect that if there was a portion that was undeniable proof he would have had that thing on parade as quick as he could.


Thanks Tracy, I never considered that it might be interior paint, the other thing is there is no way to check when the pic was taken either.... Another thing about that pic, on the left edge of the part that looks like waterline crud, you can see where it has flaked off with rusty metal underneath, so what ever it is it is a coating on the surface of the bulkhead...

I had read somewhere a few years ago that Danny Martinez was one of the researchers that expressly went to the Waipio point wreckage to check on paint... I imagine that if they had found some they not only would have it on parade but an encyclopedia's amount of scientific / historical studies to back it up..... {chuckle}

Probably would have only made the arguments worse.....
Post Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:53 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
mike powell wrote:
Chris "Petrolgator"

Those are very good looking cage masts. Unfortunately, I don't know who Jon is. Can you give me some advice on where i can learn more about the product and possibly purchase them?

Thanks,

Mike


Jon is the owner of Iron Shipwrights. Search for Commanders Models, Iron Shipwrights is under that corporate umbrella.
Post Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:28 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Egilman wrote:
if that off white look to the upper part is paint it could only be the white lead primer...

..snip..

People have gone to Waipio specifically looking to answer this question knowing what they were looking at and said nothing remains of the finish paint...


To the first point - it's also possible that this chunk was interior structure in way of the crews galley, casemate guns, and various shops underneath the boat deck. The bulkheads and overhead in these areas were generally white, and the boat deck wreckage would have been a cover for these spaces.

To your second point, National Parks Service Ranger Danny Martinez was one of the main drivers of the Blue paint theory and had at least some access to the wreckage before it was all moved. I would expect that if there was a portion that was undeniable proof he would have had that thing on parade as quick as he could.
Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:37 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
I'd also be interested in acquiring a set of the cage masts. I have that particular ol' chunk of resin in my stash, too!

- Sean F.
Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:37 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Chris "Petrolgator"

Those are very good looking cage masts. Unfortunately, I don't know who Jon is. Can you give me some advice on where i can learn more about the product and possibly purchase them?

Thanks,

Mike
Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:26 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
66misos wrote:
Hi Egilman,
thank you for your response. Here at WSJ is another article about the PH wreckage with the picture described: "A piece of the USS Arizona with scorch marks caused by burning oil.":
Can we still see there light (5-L?) and dark (5-D?) paint?


I highly doubt it, the black along the lower portion more resembles the cruddy surface of metal that was under water, and if that off white look to the upper part is paint it could only be the white lead primer they used when the yard crews were doing a yard maintenance painting..... (full sandblast strip and repaint)

People have gone to Waipio specifically looking to answer this question knowing what they were looking at and said nothing remains of the finish paint...

I don't have access to WSJ so I can't read the article or view the images, so I haven't a clue what they are claiming right wrong or indifferent.... But experience says that most reporters who write such articles don't have a clue....
Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:38 pm

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