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Topic review - Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans
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  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Also note that the "railing" folds flat when stowed as well.
Post Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:04 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
This is a picture I took on board Missouri. You can see that the steps are folded flat.

Larry


Attachments:
Missouri Ladder.png
Missouri Ladder.png [ 229.02 KiB | Viewed 98 times ]
Post Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:40 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
One accommodation ladder is stowed against wardroom bulkhead on starboard side, the other is stowed against the aft end of the superstructure on the port side, where the superstructure tapers towards the aft 16” turret.

One pair of upper and lower platforms, and a bail is also stowed against the aft superstructure, on starboard side opposite the accommodation ladder. I assume these are for the aft accommodation ladder. I am not sure where their counterparts for the forward accommodation ladders are stowed.

The leadsman’s platforms were stowed against startboard side toward, just behind B turret barbette.
Post Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:57 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I'll have to look at my photos of the fwd accommodation ladder, stbd side against the wardroom area bulkhead. It looks as I recall as if the "steps" rotate and store flat as well as the railings. I'll look for the photos. Aft I recall seeing a photo somewhere with the accommodation laddes stowed awarthships aft of turret three.
Post Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:18 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Can anyone point me to pictures of stowed accommodation ladders on an WWII era major US warship?

Missouri seems to carry two accommodation ladders on board, stowed lying on their sides and flipped on one edge against the superstructure when not in use, I believe the upper and lower platforms for the ladders are detached and stowed separately. Are the railings/ma ropes also detached?

Another question, are the angle of the steps on the accommodation ladders fixed? Or do they pivot to allow the step to remain horizontal if the lower part of the accommodation ladders is pulled up or down depending on the ship’s draft?

If they are pivoted, do they lie flat when the ladders are stowed?
Post Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:48 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
chazi wrote:
I just started to build USS Missouri model 1/200 from GPM - polish paper models publisher and I'm looking for drawings for shell expansion or shell plating of the hull.


I have been working on and off on putting together the shell plating data from various sources. Most of the blueprints I have are extremely difficult to read. I think there are eleven blueprints plus the mold loft data. Each one is about 40MB so its about a half GB. And then it has to be deciphered because most of it is hard to read.

This is some of my work in progress. I am still refining the XYZ coordinates. I have not started on the shell thicknesses and types of joints.

Attachment:
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Screen Shot 2019-11-06 at 8.52.35 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-11-06 at 8.52.35 PM.jpg [ 269.86 KiB | Viewed 192 times ]
Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:55 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Fortunately shell expansion plans for the Iowa class is not too much more difficult to find than a pink unicorn, with wings.
Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:44 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Hello everyone.

I just started to build USS Missouri model 1/200 from GPM - polish paper models publisher and I'm looking for drawings for shell expansion or shell plating of the hull.
thanks for help
best regards
chris
Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:13 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I made mine out of some really fine I beam I found somewhere (1: 192).
Post Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:00 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Chuck wrote:
Quote:
1. The real I-Beam stanchions are actually quite thick and beefy. On the real ship the outboard face of the stanchions are nearly at the deck edge, while the inboard face of the stanchions are aligned with the inboard face of the chocks. In other works the stanchions are nearly as thick as the chocks. Folded PE stanchions provided by Pontos and Eduard are still too thin, unless you use two PE stanchions glued back to back for each stanchion. Otherwise either the outboard dace of the stanchions are too far inboard, or the railings can not align with the backs of the chocks.


Here is a photo of BB-64 (museum) which shows the larger collapsible stanchion and its relative position in the waterway:
Attachment:
BB64 Deck Stanchion Detail.jpg
BB64 Deck Stanchion Detail.jpg [ 258.58 KiB | Viewed 345 times ]

If it were feasible to have 3D printed stanchions provided, that would be the ultimate way to go. However, using the Pontos brass PE stanchions in place of the kit version will not really improve how these fit or look (Pontos is what I ended up using). This is a crap shoot and you probably won't like the odds or results.

As for the chocks, I used the kit supplied augmented with the Pontos brass posts and put them where the deck was stamped for them to go. I also used a custom ordered Pontos teak deck set (which I had collaborated with them in order to produce) and made no changes to the chock location as it was originally designed for use with the kit plastic main deck. A judgement call, I guess; something you have to really wonder if it's worth messing with in the overall scheme of things.

If I were to be working on the 1:200 kit now, YES! I would try to find someone to make 3D correctly shaped and printed stanchions. Chock locations and custom designed chocks? Don't know about that one!

Hope this helps,

Hank
Post Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Another thing, it seems there are a number of interpretation for the number and configuration of the tall whip antennae around Missouri’s superstructure in Sept 1945. Floating Dry Dock plans show 1 short whip antenna on a platform on the aft edge of the forefunnel, no whip antenna between the stacks, and 4 short whip entenna around the aft fire control tower.

Pontos suggest quite a few more, with 2 tall whip antennae between the stacks, 2 additional short antennae on the bulwark around aft sky lookout platform, and two more medium antennae on the aft side of the40mm bofor tub on either side of forward fire control tower.

Based on some pretty sharp photos of the Missouri when Missouri attended the Hudson River Navy review after V-J day, when Missouri had her naked painted on her side midship, Pontos’s interpretation seems to be closer to the mark, although not every additional antennnaPobtis depicted can clearly be made out.
Post Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:02 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
A correction. All of Misouri's bollards were painted Navy blue in Sept 1945, including the ones near the bow. Only the chocks over the haze gray band in the front 1/3 of the ship were painted haze gray. The chocks in the rear 2/3 of the ship were also navy blue.


Getting the chocks to align correctly with railing on 1/200 scale Trumpeter Missouri and Iowa requires some work. There are two problems:

1. The real I-Beam stanchions are actually quite thick and beefy. On the real ship the outboard face of the stanchions are nearly at the deck edge, while the inboard face of the stanchions are aligned with the inboard face of the chocks. In other works the stanchions are nearly as thick as the chocks. Folded PE stanchions provided by Pontos and Eduard are still too thin, unless you use two PE stanchions glued back to back for each stanchion. Otherwise either the outboard dace of the stanchions are too far inboard, or the railings can not align with the backs of the chocks.

2. The chocks Trumpter provided were far too thick. So to align the railing with their back edges would force the railing to stand too far back from the deck edge. In reality the main part of the chocks were only as thick than the width of the waterway around the deck. The inboard bottom of the chocks actually protrudes inboard to enable the chock to straddle the waterway. Trumpeter made the chock thick enough so they didn't need the protrusion on the bottom to straddle the waterway. The problem is then you can't properly align the railing with the chocks without the railings standing too far inboard.


There are some 1/200 USN chocks available through 3D printing, but unfortunately these are not the right type or size for US fast battleships. So to fiddly modification to the trumpeter chocks would be needed to get this detail right.
Post Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:43 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Fliger747 wrote:
Currently this ladder is a wider than normal inclined ladder, as is the aft facing ladders aft of the wardroom. My extremely vague recollection from time aboard Missouri in the mid 60's was that these were at the time standard ladders. Question is were these changed as accommodation to the turons when these became museum ships.


The ladders at the forward superstructure of the on the NJ have not been changed. In fact, they are blocked off to visitors. The only ladder I think has been changed is from the 2d to 3d deck on the Turret 2 tour route.
Post Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Currently this ladder is a wider than normal inclined ladder, as is the aft facing ladders aft of the wardroom. My extremely vague recollection from time aboard Missouri in the mid 60's was that these were at the time standard ladders. Question is were these changed as accommodation to the turons when these became museum ships.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:20 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Re: Inclined Stbd. ladder from main deck to 01 Level -

Based on checking photos from BB62 in 1968 - that particular ladder on MISSOURI was probably painted white with the white treads as a special treatment for the occasion.

The same ladder on NEW JERSEY was painted haze gray like all the others.

Hope this helps,

Hank
Post Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:42 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
Yes, the inclined ladder:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016318c.jpg
Post Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:29 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
The folding stanchions are slightly tapered and span the waterway outboard of the wooden decking. They are arched on their base such that an un interrupted flow can go down the waterway.

By "Companionway" are you referring to the exterior inclined ladder abeam the barbette of turret two?

Though my ship model, Missouri as she was in her latest commission is somewhat easier to model research wise, how these ships evolved during their lives, sometimes day to day, is interesting.
Post Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:14 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
I also have some comments about the deck edge railing and railing stanchions for the Missouri. There are 3 types of railing stanchions on the Iowa class:

1. I-Beam stanchions that are hinged with a pin and bolt at the bottom and appears to be able to be folded and lay flat on deck. These are used for railings made from tensioned steel cables around the main deck and on level 2 around the B turret.

2. Pipe stanchions that fits into a socket on deck and can be removed, these are also used for railing made from tensioned steel cables around parts of the main deck and on parts of level 2 around B turret

3. Pipe Stanchions that are welded to the deck. These are used for pipe railing around the superstructure.

Pontos and Eduard PE for 1/200 depicts all railings with both stanchions and railing as one piece. The beefy I-Beam stanchions are provided as separate pieces which can then be glued onto the existing PE railing stanchions where appropriate. At least on Pontos, enough I-Beams are provided to convert all the stanchions around the main deck to I-Beams.

Even on their promotional photos they show all stanchions around main deck, and no stanchion around 2nd deck, to be I-beams type.

This is wrong.

The I-Beam stanchions are only used around parts of the main deck. Certain parts, including the part of hull side immediately behind the bow 20mm platform, outboard of the 26 foot boat davits between 2nd and 4th 5" gun on each side, uses the pipe stanchions. Don't glue the I-boam stanchions to the PE railing at these locations.


The I-Beam stanchions are also used for the parts of level 2 around the B turret, except the first 3 stanchions on each side. What is more, the first 3 pipe stanchions would interfere with the safety platform under B-turret if the B-turret were to traverse. So these are always removed when B-turret traverses. You can see these are removed during the Tokyo surrender ceremony to allow the B turret to be trained 45 degrees to startboard.


I see many models are made with deck edge railings for Missouri's main deck standing right on the deck edge. This is also wrong. The deck edge railing around the main deck actually stands a considerable distance inboard of the deck edge. There is a gutter that runs all the way around the deck edge that stands outboard of he railing. The railings themselves are actually aligned with the inboard, not outboard, face of the chokes around the deck, or about 2.5mms in 1/200 scale from the deck edge.


Another thing, the starboard side companionway leading up from main deck to 2nd deck abreast B barbette was painted white during the Tokyo surrender ceremony. The Japanese delegation had to walk up this companionway to reach the surrender ceremony and awaiting allied delegation on 2nd deck. I am not sure if the companionway was painted white for the ceremony or if it was standard practice to paint this companion way white for some reason.
Post Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:17 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
chuck wrote:
When Missouri was wearing measure 22, her implementation of measure 22 was somewhat different from those on other ships:

1. the specification for Ms22 calls for the top of the navy blue band to be horizontal and level with the lowest part of the sheer of the deck. On Missouri, the Navy blue band near the stern followed the sheer line of the hull. Only at the front is the top of the navy blue band level with the lowest point of the sheer After the surrender ceremony in Sept 1945, the hull was repainted so the navy blue followed the sheer line in the front as well. The haze gray band that normally sits on top of the navy blue band was completed painted over. The entire hull side was painted navy blue.

2. On other Iowa class ships wearing Ms 22, the sides of bollards and chocks are all painted haze gray. On the Missouri, prior to Sept 1945, these were painted navy blue (including the towing bollards under the aircraft crane) in the rear 2/3 of the ship where the navy blue reach the top of the hull. In the forward 1/3 of the ship these were painted haze gray. After Sept 1945, all bollards and chocks were painted navy blue

3. On other Iowa class ships wearing Ms22, , the tops of the bollards and chocks were painted deck blue. On the Missouri these appears to be painted the same color on top as on the sides, whether that is navy blue or haze gray.

4. On the other Iowa class ships wearing Ms22, the tops of 5"/38 mounts were painted deck blue. On the Missouri they were painted haze gray.


Thanks for this info. Looks like I have some repainting to do....
Post Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:21 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa class (BB-61) fans  Reply with quote
When Missouri was wearing measure 22, her implementation of measure 22 was somewhat different from those on other ships:

1. the specification for Ms22 calls for the top of the navy blue band to be horizontal and level with the lowest part of the sheer of the deck. On Missouri, the Navy blue band near the stern followed the sheer line of the hull. Only at the front is the top of the navy blue band level with the lowest point of the sheer After the surrender ceremony in Sept 1945, the hull was repainted so the navy blue followed the sheer line in the front as well. The haze gray band that normally sits on top of the navy blue band was completed painted over. The entire hull side was painted navy blue.

2. On other Iowa class ships wearing Ms 22, the sides of bollards and chocks are all painted haze gray. On the Missouri, prior to Sept 1945, these were painted navy blue (including the towing bollards under the aircraft crane) in the rear 2/3 of the ship where the navy blue reach the top of the hull. In the forward 1/3 of the ship these were painted haze gray. After Sept 1945, all bollards and chocks were painted navy blue

3. On other Iowa class ships wearing Ms22, , the tops of the bollards and chocks were painted deck blue. On the Missouri these appears to be painted the same color on top as on the sides, whether that is navy blue or haze gray.

4. On the other Iowa class ships wearing Ms22, the tops of 5"/38 mounts were painted deck blue. On the Missouri they were painted haze gray.
Post Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:48 pm

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