The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:20 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post a reply
Post icon:
None
Username:
Subject:
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 60000 characters. 

Font size:
Font colour
Options:
BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Disable BBCode
Do not automatically parse URLs
Question
What is the name in the logo in the top left? (hint it's something dot com):
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
   

Topic review - Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
pascalemod wrote:
Is there a good info on radars that Washington carried in its North Atlantic mid 1942 fit? BEFORE moving to Pacific basically. What difference was vs Guadalcanal, in other way of asking. Trumpeter kit 1/700 is all over the place - its clearly pre Guadalcanal hull but not sure about radar setup.

It had the rather nice patchy camouflage, MS12 Modified.


Just a comment on the Washington.

There are several Photo Etch kits for her that allow you to build her as she was at Guadalcanal, one of which is very extensive, by a member of this forum (I think who goes by the name Shelf Oddity).

Here is a link to his build of the Washington (prepare to be overwhelmed by the detail he goes into):

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=159504&start=120

Five Star Models also make a very complete PE set for the Washington, which will allow you to build her at nearly any point in her WWII career prior to 1944/45.

http://www.fstarmodel.com/pd.jsp?id=89# ... _304_60_-1


I do not know if Blacman (Who is I think who Shelf Oddity is) has the Washington detail set for sale, but it is the better of the two sets specifically for Guadalcanal.

MB
Post Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:25 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Which page here has the rigging diagrams for USS Washington? Whats a good source? I want the early war Washington, not late war, so pre Pacific, ideally.
Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:34 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Earlier it was mentioned using photographs to substantiate mast arrangement, radars etc. Do note that photographs of such ship portions were often retouched to make less information available about possible electronic installations.

Cheers: T
Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:58 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
ArmchairAdmiral wrote:
According to this version of DANFS, it's 15.


?? But if you on the site you list go to the history of USS North Carolina (III) you get this

https://web.archive.org/web/20091011033637/http://www.history.navy.mil:80/danfs/n6/north_carolina-iii.htm

It shows 12 battle stars, battle stars are different from unit citations and campaign honors, and it sort of becomes apples and oranges if you know what I mean.
Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:10 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Question time: the masts on Washington, before the Pacific tour, so early 1942.

How did the rear mast look like? Just straight up with yardarms across? What shape of yardamrs? rounded or square edged?

Same goes for front mast yardarms - square edged, triangular shaped or they are rounded?

Cant see any good photos of that time and rear mast was remodelled for Pacific so Im really confused about that one. Appreciate all the help if anyone has good photos.
Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:44 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Daytona675R wrote:
pascalemod wrote:
Is there a good info on radars that Washington carried in its North Atlantic mid 1942 fit? BEFORE moving to Pacific basically. What difference was vs Guadalcanal, in other way of asking.


The mid-1942 radar package included (see the picture below):
Attachment:
BB-56.jpg

- One CXAM-1 air search radar on a top of the foremast
- Two Mark 3 Mod. 1 fire control radars on a top of both Mark 38 directors
- Three Mark 4 fire control radars on a top of the forward, port and starboard Mark 37 directors

The following modifications were done in 8/1942, before BB-56 sailed to the the Pacific:
- One SG surface search radar was installed on a front side of the superstructure tower
- The fourth Mark 4 FCR was placed on a top of the aft Mark 37 director

The next alternations were done in 7/1943 and are depicted on this picture:
- The CXAM-1 was replaced by the SK air search radar
- The SG radar was moved on a top of the foremast
- The forward Mark 3 Mod. 1 FCR was replaced by the Mod. 0 variant
- The aft Mark 3 Mod. 1 FCR was replaced by the Mark 8 FCR

During the spring-1944 repairs following the collision with USS Indiana, the radar package was modified again:
- The forward Mark 3 Mod. 0 FCR was replaced by the Mark 8 FCR
- The second SG surface search radar was placed on a top of the mainmast
- The Mark 27 FCR was placed just above a top of the conning tower

Before the end of the 1944, the Mark 4 FCRs were switched to the Mark 12/22s

The final alterations were done between 6/1945 and 9/1945 and can be seen here:
- The forward Mark 8 FCR was replaced by the Mark 13 FCR
- The SR air search radar was placed on a top of the mainmast


holy cow, I did come to the exactly the same conclusions you posted, but through a ton of research. Wish this was there. This should go to front page of this thread or something. Thank you.
Post Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:55 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
pascalemod wrote:
Is there a good info on radars that Washington carried in its North Atlantic mid 1942 fit? BEFORE moving to Pacific basically. What difference was vs Guadalcanal, in other way of asking.


The mid-1942 radar package included (see the picture below):
Attachment:
BB-56.jpg
BB-56.jpg [ 312.52 KiB | Viewed 336 times ]

- One CXAM-1 air search radar on a top of the foremast
- Two Mark 3 Mod. 1 fire control radars on a top of both Mark 38 directors
- Three Mark 4 fire control radars on a top of the forward, port and starboard Mark 37 directors

The following modifications were done in 8/1942, before BB-56 sailed to the the Pacific:
- One SG surface search radar was installed on a front side of the superstructure tower
- The fourth Mark 4 FCR was placed on a top of the aft Mark 37 director

The next alternations were done in 7/1943 and are depicted on this picture:
- The CXAM-1 was replaced by the SK air search radar
- The SG radar was moved on a top of the foremast
- The forward Mark 3 Mod. 1 FCR was replaced by the Mod. 0 variant
- The aft Mark 3 Mod. 1 FCR was replaced by the Mark 8 FCR

During the spring-1944 repairs following the collision with USS Indiana, the radar package was modified again:
- The forward Mark 3 Mod. 0 FCR was replaced by the Mark 8 FCR
- The second SG surface search radar was placed on a top of the mainmast
- The Mark 27 FCR was placed just above a top of the conning tower

Before the end of the 1944, the Mark 4 FCRs were switched to the Mark 12/22s

The final alterations were done between 6/1945 and 9/1945 and can be seen here:
- The forward Mark 8 FCR was replaced by the Mark 13 FCR
- The SR air search radar was placed on a top of the mainmast
Post Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:13 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Is there a good info on radars that Washington carried in its North Atlantic mid 1942 fit? BEFORE moving to Pacific basically. What difference was vs Guadalcanal, in other way of asking. Trumpeter kit 1/700 is all over the place - its clearly pre Guadalcanal hull but not sure about radar setup.

It had the rather nice patchy camouflage, MS12 Modified.
Post Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:47 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
I think the photo you reference last is much later than November 1942. The Navsource caption for the photo only states it is after the November 13 battle, but not how much after. There are two other things in the photo to look at that would indicate a much later date. First she now has quad 40 mm guns in place of the 1.1 inch AA guns and second the demarcation line for the 5N paint on the lower hull curves down so that it runs below the anchor. From August 1942 to after the November battle the 5N line ran through the anchor and she was armed with 1.1 inch mounts and not 40 mm. I think the radar she had in August 1942 was still the same in November 1942.
Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:22 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Can anyone please inform me about BB-56 USS WASHINGTON fire control radars that were installed on the MK-38 Gun Directors in late 1942.

According to the following links,
the forward and the aft MK-38 directors carry the early MK-3 Mod.1 radar in August 1942
http://navsource.org/archives/01/056/015610.jpg
http://navsource.org/archives/01/056/015610a.jpg
https://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015626.jpg

Now in November, the forward MK-38 carries the MK-3 Mod.2 radar but what about the fire control radar on the aft MK-38?
It appears to be a MK-8 Mod.0 fire control radar? Is this correct?
Can anyone explain when MK-8 Mod.0 FC radars were installed on ships or on the BB-56?
http://navsource.org/archives/01/056/015673b.jpg

I appreciate for the response.
Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:40 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Colosseum wrote:
Apparently in 2014 when I drew it, I made the judgment that the bow section was 5-H Haze Grey (though now I'd probably leave it as 5-O). From reading this forum, it seems like it wasn't unheard of for some ships to paint the Ms12mod pattern outside regulations (and this seems to have included carrying 5-H into areas that shouldn't have had it, etc).

From consulting photos again (especially this one), I think I need to go revisit that area of the drawing and change it from 5-H to 5-O. I'm not sure why I originally thought that area was lighter... maybe a comment in this thread somewhere? Either way - the tone of the bow panel matches the tone of the No.1 turret so I think it's definitely 5-O. Interesting to note is the way the 5-N on the hull seems to curve upwards between the two forward turrets.


It all makes sense though, doesnt it? The camo is inspired by rough seas and gray sky. So you got some high waves on front somewhere. Really like this camo a lot more than MS22. Thanks for making that drawing, it helps me in my modelling, wish there was another side and turrets. Turrets should not be colored on top as deck blue btw.
Post Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:07 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Apparently in 2014 when I drew it, I made the judgment that the bow section was 5-H Haze Grey (though now I'd probably leave it as 5-O). From reading this forum, it seems like it wasn't unheard of for some ships to paint the Ms12mod pattern outside regulations (and this seems to have included carrying 5-H into areas that shouldn't have had it, etc).

From consulting photos again (especially this one), I think I need to go revisit that area of the drawing and change it from 5-H to 5-O. I'm not sure why I originally thought that area was lighter... maybe a comment in this thread somewhere? Either way - the tone of the bow panel matches the tone of the No.1 turret so I think it's definitely 5-O. Interesting to note is the way the 5-N on the hull seems to curve upwards between the two forward turrets.
Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:30 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Colosseum wrote:
I drew the color profile you've attached - it was drawn using photo references only, since (as far as I can tell) there are no decent schematics available that show the pattern, and the USN did not issue design patterns for Ms12mod as it did the Measure 31-32-33 patterns. There are several good photos available on Navsource that show the starboard side of BB-56 I used to get the pattern as correct as possible. The ship itself was plotted from Floating Drydock plans of BB-55 in 1942 and modified accordingly. I drew six versions of North Carolina throughout her wartime service life as well - all the class drawings I made are available here: http://shipbucket.com/drawings/search?c ... h+carolina I generally do not make portside profiles except in rare cases.


Love your work man! Ok Can you specify - the tip top part of bow section is that haze grey or ocean grey?

Hard to tell but your drawings imply haze gray and I foind it hard to believe they used haze grey.
Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:48 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
I drew the color profile you've attached - it was drawn using photo references only, since (as far as I can tell) there are no decent schematics available that show the pattern, and the USN did not issue design patterns for Ms12mod as it did the Measure 31-32-33 patterns. There are several good photos available on Navsource that show the starboard side of BB-56 I used to get the pattern as correct as possible. The ship itself was plotted from Floating Drydock plans of BB-55 in 1942 and modified accordingly. I drew six versions of North Carolina throughout her wartime service life as well - all the class drawings I made are available here: http://shipbucket.com/drawings/search?c ... h+carolina I generally do not make portside profiles except in rare cases.
Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:41 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Is there a schematic out there for Measure 12 Modified (splotches) camouflage that Washington wore in the Atlantic? I am talking the one with navy blue hull, ocean gray superstructures mixed with some haze gray tops. I assume the decks were already navy blue also.

I found only this one so far which Im not sure is accurate and only one sided...


Attachments:
bb56-11.jpg
bb56-11.jpg [ 111.89 KiB | Viewed 1122 times ]
washington bb56 atlantic.jpg
washington bb56 atlantic.jpg [ 45.65 KiB | Viewed 1122 times ]
Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:26 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
split.
Post Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:52 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
Question regarding boot topping placement on Trumpeter 1/700. Do I put it above the hull break point or below or split it in between? Im building a full hull. I put it BELOW hull break and it looks off a bit. Help?
Post Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:18 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
DavidP wrote:
North Carolina received 12 battle stars for World War II service.
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb55.htm


Actually it was 15 battle stars and she happens to be the most decorated US Battleship of WW2 to boot.
Post Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:42 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
According to this version of DANFS, it's 15.
Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:29 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS North Carolina & Washington fans  Reply with quote
North Carolina received 12 battle stars for World War II service.
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb55.htm
Post Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:23 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group