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Topic review - Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: 1945 Wisconsin vs Missouri  Reply with quote
NGaged wrote:
Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there were any significant differences between the Wisconsin and the Mighty Mo by the end of WWII. I've pored over pictures and as far as I can tell, the two were nearly identical, right down to the arrangement of bulkhead details. I was wondering anyone could confirm my suspicions?

Thanks!



Missouri received 4 MK-57 directors around spring 1945, 2 between forward MK-37 director and the forward director fire control tower, and 2 on the aft fire control tower behind the aft funnel. All the picture I’ve seen of the wisconsin in 1945 show she did not have them.

Missouri was built with sk-2 dish antenna on her foremast, Wisconsin was built with sk mattress antenna in the same location and didn’t receive an upgrade to sk-2 until after the war.

Wisconsin’s main top mast Behind the aft funnel was always significantly and noticeably taller than Missouri’s. Missouri only had an SG radar at the top of her main mast through out the war. Wisconsin Had an SC radar added on the top of her main mast Sometime between Jan and July 1945

Missouri has a TBS antenna mounted ahead of the SG radar platform on the main mast. On the Wisconsin the TBS antenna seems to be mounted on the yard arm under the SG radar.

Although both ships carried the same measure 22 camo pattern, the executions differ in detail: 1. The top of Missouri’s 5 inch gun houses were painted haze gray, somewhat against regulation. The tops of Wisconsin’s 5” gun houses were painted deck blue, as per regulation. 2. Missouri’s 16” barrels are painted uniform haze gray. Wisconsin’s countershaded with deck blue on top and haze gray on the bottom. 3. Missouri’s bollards are all painted navy blue. Wisconsin’s all haze gray.

The steam pipes feeding the whistle on the sides of the forward director tower are routed differently between the two ships.

At the back of the director tower, above where the tower joins with the fire funnel, there is a slot on the Missouri that allows the foremast to be lowered into it to enable the ship to pass under the Brooklyn bridge. I believe this slot is not there on the Wisconsin or New Jersey.

Missouri received a small platform on the Front the director tower for mouNting a TDY antenna in spring 1945. Wisconsin appears Not to have received a similar platform at the end of the war.

The boarding ladder stowed again the aft superstructure is stowed sitting on the deck on the Missouri. And affixed to the side of the superstructure some distance off the deck On the Wisconsin.

The bulwark behind the 20mm oerlikon tubs at the extreme bow of the Two ships are different. Wisconsin is built like the Iowa and New Jersey. The back side of the bulwark is longer and rounded off Compared to missouri.. Missouri’s bulwark is unique and squared off. The arrangement of wind deflecting Venturi on the front side of the tubs are also different.
Post Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:23 am
  Post subject:  Re: 1945 Wisconsin vs Missouri  Reply with quote
The four IOWA class ships were NOT identical - not at their initial construction and not today. You might want to compare the conning towers of both ships (BB-63/BB-64) as they were "similar" in construction but not identical. The 08 Level and 011 Level were not constructed the same on these two ships (likewise with NEW JERSEY/IOWA). I would also compare the actual 40mm mounts and 20mm mounts on each ship as they might also have been different in total count. Placement of various ancillary items such as accommodation ladders, fueling hoses, removable davits, etc. would not necessarily been located on bulkheads identically - this was much a shipyard decision during construction as to where these items would be located/stowed.

As Timmy C. has mentioned, the masts/RADARs on both ships were not the same in 1945.

Hope this helps,
Post Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:54 am
  Post subject:  Re: 1945 Wisconsin vs Missouri  Reply with quote
The big air search radars were different: Mo had the SK-2 dish, while Wisky had the SK rectangular.
Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:37 pm
  Post subject:  1945 Wisconsin vs Missouri  Reply with quote
Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there were any significant differences between the Wisconsin and the Mighty Mo by the end of WWII. I've pored over pictures and as far as I can tell, the two were nearly identical, right down to the arrangement of bulkhead details. I was wondering anyone could confirm my suspicions?

Thanks!
Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:37 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
bigjimslade wrote:
The New Jersey's helipad was put in during the 1960's. I believe it is higher then the one on the others.


Jim,

Yes, I believe you are correct. However, I can't recall the exact height above the teak decking of the 1967 steel pad that was put down. I don't believe the 1981 refit removed that pad, only modified, extended, and updated what was already there.

Hope this helps,

Hank
Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:14 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
The New Jersey's helipad was put in during the 1960's. I believe it is higher then the one on the others.
Post Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:17 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Quote:
Mr. Church wrote:
A small section has been repainted in a medium grey immediately to starboard of her aft main gun turret.
?

I don't have a real answer for why that particular paint was used in that spot. I know that later on, any paint on the wood was non-skid for that purpose, to keep people from slipping on it.

The helo pad is an elevated steel structure that has AFFF plumbing between it and the steel main deck.


Thanks for the response. I imagine it was simply a localised patch repair pending a return to the shipyard for refitting? I gather the Lebanon Mission she was on took nearly a year so no doubt she badly needed repair and refitting after that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQB0_1_XRd8

The Iowa Class fantails look different in virtually every photo you see of them from the 1980s. Sometimes they look very dark almost black and other times they are at the lighter end of medium grey. Or sections of each together? Even when comparing photos taken in similar weather and where the deck is dry in each case. The material must have faded and been re-painted in sections at a time? Also interesting how all four ships had different areas of the fantail covered by the anti-slip coating.

I had to Google what AFFF was. Always wondered why the helipad was raised like that in the 1980's? Makes sense. Pity Tamiya didn't notice it when doing their 1/350 kits. The raised section is quite noticeable when you look at photos of the fantails.
Post Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:17 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
bigjimslade wrote:
The coating on the fantail is a rubber mat placed over the wood deck. Rather than repair the deck, it was covered with adhesive with the mat on top.
Are you referring to the helo pad or...
Mr. Church wrote:
A small section has been repainted in a medium grey immediately to starboard of her aft main gun turret.
?

I don't have a real answer for why that particular paint was used in that spot. I know that later on, any paint on the wood was non-skid for that purpose, to keep people from slipping on it.

The helo pad is an elevated steel structure that has AFFF plumbing between it and the steel main deck.
Post Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:06 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
The coating on the fantail is a rubber mat placed over the wood deck. Rather than repair the deck, it was covered with adhesive with the mat on top.
Post Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:23 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Very good, that would explain the wear and tear to the flight deck.

Her light grey main gun turret tops were repainted dark grey by the time of this photo in October 1986:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016261.jpg

It was possibly done earlier than that but none of the photos from 1985 on the site clearly show the turret roofs.
Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:15 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Navsource has this photo of her at that time listed as:
"The New Jersey (BB-62) passes through the Gaillard Cut during a transit of the canal, 27 April 1984."
The Kaman SH-2 Seasprite is onboard in the same location.

This would be on her way home from her deployment off the coast of Beirut, Lebanon.
She doesn't yet have the jettisonable fuel bladders installed in the port 40mm gun tub

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/0162013.jpg

James
Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
A useful photo of the USS New Jersey transiting the Panama Canal in the 1980s. Probably early 1980s as later photos show her main gun turret roofs painted dark grey whereas they are still light grey here. It shows good detail of the colours of the anti-slip coating on her fantail. It looks pretty beaten up:
https://nara.getarchive.net/media/the-starboard-aft-section-of-the-battleship-uss-new-jersey-bb-62-during-its-e640a6?zoom=true

A small section has been repainted in a medium grey immediately to starboard of her aft main gun turret. With it being trafficked by aircraft, boats, supplies etc and being bleached by sun and washed by sea spray repainting it must have been a frequently repeated job for her crew.
Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:55 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Ian Roberts wrote:
Interesting stuff - why was the boot top width different on some of the ships?


There is no reason given in the blueprints. However, one can imagine it was because the IA/NJ were lighter than the MO/WI. The former did not have as much armor and thicker plating was used in many places on the latter.
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:16 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
Interesting stuff - why was the boot top width different on some of the ships?
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:54 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
DavidP wrote:
what is the standard ww2 boot top width on the Iowa's?


Waterline: 34'9-1/4"

IA/NJ: 17" above WL and 5' 6-1/2" below WL at the bow. 17" above WL and 12-1/2" below at the stern
MO/WI: 34' 9-1/4 below and 38' 2-3/4" above.
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:27 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
what is the standard ww2 boot top width on the Iowa's?
Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:30 am
  Post subject:  Re: Missouri/Wisconsin differences  Reply with quote
tigerdvr wrote:
I am building the Joy-Yard 1/350 USS Missouri. I am toying with the idea of converting her to the Wisconsin circa late 1944, early 1945.
Any advise on the differences between these two would be greatly appreciated. I have checked most of the regular references.


There are not any major structural differences. However, you will likely find differences in details such as the position of 20mm guns and radar.

E.g., at the 02 level there is a platform designed for 2x20mm. However, the Wisconsin had three guns wedged in there from the beginning. I don't know if the Missouri did the same.
Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:11 pm
  Post subject:  Missouri/Wisconsin differences  Reply with quote
I am building the Joy-Yard 1/350 USS Missouri. I am toying with the idea of converting her to the Wisconsin circa late 1944, early 1945.
Any advise on the differences between these two would be greatly appreciated. I have checked most of the regular references.

Thanks, Harley
Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:49 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
JoeP wrote:
frenchc197 wrote:
.
Image


Some accuracy notes (just addressing the add-ons):

1. The ladder openings on the ABLS face inboard on the aft group and forward on the forward group, except that the two forward ABLs on the NJ have openings on both sides.

2. There is a full deck behind the Harpoon shields at the top of the shied.

3. The aft harpoon platform is the narrow version that is correct for early 1980's It was widened to add tracks for ABL reloading.

4. There is a bulwark (rather than railing) at the O1 next to the refueling kingpost.

5. There is no border around the odd shaped decking around turret 3. The non-wood area was a a rubber mat over wood.
Post Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:14 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all USS Iowa BB-61 class fans  Reply with quote
frenchc197 wrote:
Hello everyone,

I'm building Revell's platinum 1/350 USS New Jersey right now, and I'm seeking additional aftermarket parts for elements of the model that even with Revell's upgrades still look shoddy.

In particular, I'm looking for any improved parts on the small rigid hull ships (Seen here) that are lacking upgrades.
Image

Does anyone know the name of these particular vessels to help my search for better pieces?


For the larger boat aft of the refueling tower look up "USN Captain's Gig". Yours will need be hollowed out and an interior fitted, that upper projection removed to be replaced with a windscreen, the windows either cut out and replaced, or painted black to simulate glass, railings added fore and aft, and a prop before the rudder.

I see on Shapeways that "BaconFistModels" produce several 1/350 USN boats if you want an upgrade. I've not bought from them so I cannot speak to their level of detail.

JoeP
Post Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:32 pm

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