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Topic review - Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
HI
I`m not really in a position to go to the NMM .so I guess its pictures and "best guess" .Maybe no one really knows for sure so I wont worry too much as long as it looks sensible! At least it looks like I`ve got the colour right!!
Thanks
Dave
Post Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:59 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
Dave C,

If there is an "as sunk" lay-out, then the details will probably be shown on any amended "as fitted" drawings; which are held in the National Maritime Museum, specifically the Historic Photographs and Ships Plan Section. Failing that I fear that you will need to use photographic interpretation.

As for what they were made of the answer is (or would have been) steel wire rope. It is difficult to be precise about the colour but those that I saw in other of HM Ships were a very dark grey; which darkened with service/ accumulation of soot to almost black. One final point that you may not be aware of, the stays were usually fitted with insulators at points in them. These were porcelain, I believe and would have been of a chocolate brown colour.

Hope this helps.
Post Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:48 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
Hi all
Is there a definitive source ( picture /plan etc) of the Hoods funnel stay layout as in 1941? All the models /pics I have seen ( including the "Anatomy of the Ship " and the Association website) seem to have different layouts for both the upper and lower ones . Naturally they would have been changed ( or would they?) over time with refits etc, but is there an "as sunk" layout?
Also what colour were they? I've seen what appears to be hull colour and very dark (black?) Again any "as sunk" info.
Any advice would be welcome.
Cheers
Dave C
Post Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:32 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
EJF,

It is now clear to me that my original post on the matter in question got "lost" in transfer, so as I stated I will now try to recover from memory what was in it, in reply to your post of 7.42am 8 July.

"C:" the "rope/pulley" appears to be a purchase/tackle. It is difficult to determine its exact purpose but it might be one of the working guys that were used to move the main derrick laterally when hoisting one of the boom boats in and outboard. The part to the left may be a wire rope pennant that joined the top of the purchase to the head of the main derrick thus reducing the length of the purchase itself. It was not associated with hoisting/lowering the seaboats: that was done by means of the falls; which can be seen rigged and holding the boat at the davit head. Other purchases can be seen on deck in the group of pictures in your post of 10.10am the same day. They may be associated with the main derrick or another one that was to be "worked" later.

With reference to "D." The "T" shaped fittings shown stowed inside the zareba are probably portable galley funnels. These items are to be seen frequently in other photographs of British warships of the earlier part of the 20th Century.

I had some trouble trying to determine what the "rings/hoops" are (the Royal Navy does, or did not have, "UFOs" in its stores inventory) as the whole of the object was not visible until I back-tracked to FW Allen's post of 9.56am 7 July, then it dawned on me. It is likely to be a spare, practice or ready-use lifebuoy. This is likely to have been painted dark red (possibly dark grey in war): not, please, not international orange! The "cabinet" (correctly, "locker," locked or not) and is likely to have been a stowage for the 4inch mounting's guns' crews' steel helmets.

I hope that this helps.
Post Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:27 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
Chuck,

Northcott's "HOOD: Design and Construction" published by Bivouac Books as an Ensign Special in 1975, carries a general arrangement profile and plan drawing of the ship as in 1920 showing the location of her boats, together with a table of the establishment of ship's boats as built in 1920. I can't copy the drawings but the boats are as follows: 2 50ft steam pinnaces, 1 45ft admiral's barge (this was steam driven), 1 42ft motor boat, 1 36ft sailing pinnace, 1 35ft fast motor boat, 4 32ft cutters, 3 30ft gigs, 2 27ft whalers and 2 16ft skiff dinghies. The date of the next list is 3 July 1931.
Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:05 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
is there list and position diagram of the boats the Hood carried in 1921?
Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:41 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
EJF

Re: My post of 8 July 10.59am

An answer to your post of 8 July 7.42am was posted but appears to have been "lost" or is still under Moderator's review. If it does not appear within 24 hours, I will post a shorter version of it as I recall writing it.
Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:03 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
Alright EJF. See my previous post; which is in the Moderator's pipeline.

All questions have now been answered, with the proviso that the purchases shown in your latest batch of photographs may be associated with another derrick and not the main derrick.

As you have identified: the blue arrows indicate staghorn bollards.
Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:59 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
Pic showing item C a bit better

Attachment:
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Pic showing the davit better (blue arrows are staghorn bollards, note to self)

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MysteryDavit.jpg
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:10 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
C: it's a rope/pulley that runs from the fwd davit all the way back to the rear 4" gun mount (almost). It runs over most of half the beam of the ship. It's the rope just above C lying on deck.
D: Near D on that shield there's a pair of T-shaped stuctures (vents?) On the right one there are some small and lightly coloured 'rings'/'hoops'/UFOs. A bit more to the right is a small cabinet for storage. The barrel of the 4" mount partically obscures both.
Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:42 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
EJF

Now I am confused! What do the C and D in your photograph indicate? They appear to have no relevance to the corresponding "points" in your text.
Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:14 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
That was certainly helpful.

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Hoodsheltdeck41.jpg
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This is a relatively good shot of the shelterdeck in 1941.
A) The whaler and its Jacob's ladders and spars can be seen clearly. There are no fixed crutches on deck.
B) The smaller derrick post mentioned earlier. The position is quite odd though, and there are no derricks visible in the vicinity.
C) A rope and pulleys; you'll spot them in nearly all photographs and I assume they are for lowering/hoisting the whaler. A nice bit of detail to add.
D) While we are it it, there are some stored 'hoops', purpose unknown to me.
Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:52 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
Gentlemen,

Re: EJFoeth's post of 1.20am 07 July and others concerning the same subject.

I have a number of References concerning HMS HOOD. The "tripods" mentioned by EJF are in fact the post and stays of a small derrick. One was fitted on each side of the ship and they appear to have been permanent fittings as photographs taken in peacetime show them painted white: in war, painted grey. They were not fitted when the ship was completed and "appear" first in a photograph dated June 1939. The date of fitting might possibly be found in a copy of the ship's Rigging Warrant; which could be available in the Brass Foundry at Woolwich. They were probably fitted to meet a requirement to embark stores or light ammunition in or near the location shown. As they were not fitted "as completed" they are unlikely to have been associated with the upper deck torpedo tubes.

Concerning the davits of the seaboats (whalers): the bottoms of these were supported by brackets fitted outboard of the hull. Being of the radial type, they were turned inboard and outboard by hand. Some variants could be turned using a handle: not HOOD's apparently. When turned outboard, the boats were held in to the puddings on a horizontal griping spar by means of gripes. Clearly HOOD's seaboats were at various times turned inboard and lowered either directly onto the deck or onto supporting crutches fitted to the deck. It was then probably the practice to unhook the falls (pulleys) and then fold the davits onto the deck. They might at some time, however, have been turned inboard after removal of the griping spar, the spar then refitted and the boat griped in with the gripes again, with the boat hanging by its falls. This may only have been practiced in peacetime or in harbour though.

The vexed question of how the seaboats were rigged when sailing 21 May 1941 is unlikely, of course to be answered. My guess is that they were probably turned inboard, lowered to the deck and the davits folded. This would at least clear the weapon arcs of the after 4inch mounting on each side and reduce the chances of the boats being damaged by gun blast from the after main armament group. Additionally, it would have been unlikely that they might need to be employed as lifeboats (as in the correct Royal Navy meaning of the word: to save the life of anyone who had fallen overboard) as one of the escorting destroyers could have done that job. Besides, I think that the readers of this post will find that many British capital ships, did away with seaboats/lifeboats during World War II anyway.

Incidentally, HMS HOOD did not have nets to access the seaboats in question when they were held outboard, they had two wire rope and wooden runged "Jacob's Ladders;" which appear to have been fitted between the griping spar and the outer edge of the Shelter Deck.

I hope this helps.

References:
a. Robertson RG CA (1972): Profile Warship 19 HMS HOOD/Battle-cruiser 1916 - 1941: Operational History.
Profile Publications Ltd

b. Northcott M (1974): Ensign Special HOOD, Design and Construction. Bivouac Books Ltd>
Post Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:23 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
EJFoeth wrote:
You actually raised an interesting point; I looked at the davits and how the whalers were mounted but not if they were in- or outboard. Pics of Hood showing the whalers inboard show one davit folded/stored, so I guess chocks were lying around somewhere. Perhaps I should do a blog post as there's a small tripod near the whaler I have not seen on any model (IIRC) and there's some rope and pulleys always present for hoisting the whaler by crew...


Yes, I noticed that too...in the examples I’ve seen, it seems like the forward davit was still attached and the aft folded/stowed. The sad thing is, we DO have onboard 1941 photos of the whalers stored on deck, but the angles and image size/quality prevent us from having a good look at the undersides. We have a few shots of the whalers in action…under oar and under actual canvas sail, plus there are tons of shots showing them aboard the ship in the outboard position...complete with large fenders, straps and nets, but alas these are not much help in this situation.

I suppose, this means modelers have an opportunity for some artistic license: they can stow both boats, deploy both boats or have one out and one in.


Attachments:
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:56 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
You actually raised an interesting point; I looked at the davits and how the whalers were mounted but not if they were in- or outboard. Pics of Hood showing the whalers inboard show one davit folded/stored, so I guess chocks were lying around somewhere. Perhaps I should do a blog post as there's a small tripod near the whaler I have not seen on any model (IIRC) and there's some rope and pulleys always present for hoisting the whaler by crew...
Post Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:20 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
Hi Frank and EJ. Thanks for the swift responses.
Bit of a shame really as I was hoping to get away without putting them on ( like not needing to have the main forward and stern de-mountable shelter deck access ladders ) or at least having to make a decision as to inboard/outboard.The cheats way out!!
I have to say inboard seems most likely to me as clearly they wouldn't be of any use away from port and on a "proper" deep sea mission, and they would also have been quite vulnerable if stowed outboard in the stormy old Atlantic/Denmark Straight. Also it means I have to make some boat chocks/rests from scratch as the kit/BBB PE set don`t supply any for inboard stowage. I guess the davits must have been swung inwards to rest against the hull , and maybe the safety / access netting removed as well?
Oh well that`s model making I suppose!
Cheers
Dave
Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:03 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
One pic that Frank gave me with instructions not to share it (sorry/not sorry) taken 5/5/1941 shows the whaler inboard. Pics from 22/5/1941 are taken directly from the side at a low altitude make it difficult, except that the whaler is not between the davits (really not), so I guess inboard as well.
Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:36 am
  Post subject:  Re: Hoods whalers and using Big Blue Boy PE  Reply with quote
slowhand wrote:
HI all
Can anyone confirm whether Hood carried whalers at the stern of her shelter deck on her last mission ?


The whalers were there in the usual locations. They are definitely visible in the various 22 May ‘41 photos of her at sea/en-route to intercept Bismarck. As for whether they were inboard or outboard, it’s difficult to say with 100% certainty. To me, they appear to be inboard/stowed on deck. The photos are a little too grainy to be 100% conclusive. To further complicate matters, I’ve definitely seen photos of her from Spring 1941 that show the whalers in both positions at different times.

Perhaps they were in board last on route and pushed outboard when they prepared to seal up for battle the night before her loss.
Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:21 am
  Post subject:  Re: Hoods whalers and using Big Blue Boy PE  Reply with quote
HI all
Can anyone confirm whether Hood carried whalers at the stern of her shelter deck on her last mission ? The aerial pictures of that are quite vague to be sure. If she did ,were they hung outboard or inboard on davits? Most models show them even when shown as waterline but they may not be intended to show that last trip when ?
By the way I`ve been using the Big Blue Boy PE set.It seems very comprehensive and covers most of the "issues" raised by the Hood Association on their website. It also "fits " the kit very well, although you have to be careful to make the appropriate kit parts fit accurately first so the PE fits them properly . The instructions however leave something to be desired especially for someone like me who hasn't done any PE before. Maybe they should look at PONTOS?
Cheers
slowhand
Post Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans  Reply with quote
Just to point out to the Forum - that my review of the 1/350 Flyhawk Super-detail set
went live on the HMS Hood Association website at the start of this month and is visible here
http://www.hmshood.com/hoodtoday/models ... ode=350098

Note I also sent high quality scans of the Flyhawk Instruction sheet - so hopefully this can be badded at a later date
( or perhaps was omitted due to website space limitations ) - it would detail the problems of the lack of detail on how
to exactly assemble some bts of photo-etch ( as others have commented ) and also the very good print quality
of the Flyhawk instructions themselves

kind regards
David Walker
Post Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:32 pm

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