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Topic review - At 'Em Arizona Fans!
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Wind was not the primary issue. Most of the stacks of the period were free-standing (not incorporated into or attached on to neighboring structures), and so needed guy wires. The primary reason was to keep the stack attached and upright when the ship rolled from side to side. The weight of the stack, pulling laterally, would have broken it off just as the ship needed propulsion the most - in a storm. Not only the direct weight, but the momentum added to the weight as the stack reached the bottom of the arc as the ship started to roll the other way. It would have been difficult to reinforce a free-standing structure to withstand that without adding significant weight, all at a time when overall weight was strictly controlled by treaty. Guy wires did the job and were far lighter.
Post Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:31 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
the stack must have structural members in it that the skin attaches to it to also support the searchlight platforms & whatever as the skin itself cannot if it is thin.
Post Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:08 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Here is a comparison of her initial modernization plans of 1929/30 to her final refit plans of 1940/41.
Image

In both cases the only thing that connected the stack to the superstructure were the ladders that went up to the emergency cabin platform.
Image

No other deck from the superstructure was attached to the stack during her last refit.

This pic shows the guide wires sometime after 1935 when the stack was made higher. In this pic you also can see where the initial stack height was and how much it was raised.
Image
Post Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:12 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
she had them til at least late 30's but by the time of the PH attack, the stack was being structurally connected to the forward superstructure according to the 1941 plans.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:51 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Sorry, I meant the steel was thin, not the actual size of the stack. So do you believe then Arizona didn't have any?
Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:16 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
stack is not too tall or thin compared to the "Big 5". as the stack consists of a round tube within an oval tube & structurally connected at the top & bottom, the stack is not going to collapse unless hit by another big object. also the stack is protected from the wind coming from the front by the forward superstructure.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:11 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Too tall and too thin to withstand wind on a consistent basis without wires. Also, if you look at photos of her all the way up her 1941 refit they show she had guide wires. There would be no reason to suspect there was no need for guide wires after her last refit.
Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:59 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
why "There is no way the stack would survive any kind of wind without support wires"?
Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:04 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Why what?
Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:39 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
why?
Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:29 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
gunfighter wrote:
I had asked a question awhile back about if the stays or guide wires for the stack were still in place as they were on the Penn.

I have no doubt that the stack still had support wires but I can’t find a good pic yet. There is no way the stack would survive any kind of wind without support wires.
Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:31 pm
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
it is YG-21 not YP-21.
YG-21 http://www.navsource.org/archives/14/6221.htm
Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:40 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Glad to see the color issue moved. Now maybe we can get back to what the details of the ship were. What needs to be done to different kits to improve them. I'm working on the 1/200 kit and spent a week redoing the bow. Not perfect but a lot better that the kit to start with. I had asked a question awhile back about if the stays or guide wires for the stack were still in place as they were on the Penn. Hope someone out there has an answer Jeff you mention a YP21 in the back ground. Just what is a YP21?
Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:28 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
This is the only pic I have ever been able to find that shows the aft gun tub and director platform still somewhat above water. Just behind the tub and the platform is YG-21 on the other side of the ship.
Image
Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:00 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Egilman wrote:
Mr. Church wrote:


Yes it's the same molding... thank you....

Anything we know on the guns? 5"25's & 5"51's?


Black Cat Models of France produce both the types of 5 inch guns:
https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/weapons/72-5in25-mk19-gun-on-platform-x4.html
https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/weapons/154-5in51-gun-on-open-mount-x4.html

Veteran Models do the 5/25 Guns also:
https://freetimehobbies.com/1-350-veteran-models-wwii-us-5-25-cal-single-gun-open-mount/
Post Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:47 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Mr. Church wrote:


Yes it's the same molding... thank you....

Anything we know on the guns? 5"25's & 5"51's?
Post Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:10 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
That discussion was moved to another section of the forum....

Link: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=305334&p=914435#p914435

But I don't know if there are many that really wish to discuss it anymore, I guess the discussion got real heated at one point.... But I"m searching my archives of pictures trying to come up with color shots showing them as I believe that is the only way we are really going to know... Of course we will have the expert photo analyzers come into the discussion and explain why all the color photos are really showing black/grey instead of the blue the pictures shows...

Oh well, build it the way your convinced it should be.... Is the advice generally given out here...
Post Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:09 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
As regards U.S.S. Arizona's colour scheme at the time of the Pearl Harbour attack:

If someone had a time machine and an HD Colour Camera Drone.. They could go back to December 7th 1941 and film Battleship Row from both sides, from above and from all around ten minutes before the first waves of Japanese aircraft arrived. Then come back here and post up the footage. But even if someone did that I bet there would probably still be arguments over the exact colours seen.

There seem to be various possibilities for U.S.S. Arizona, Dark Grey, Sea Blue, a semi-finished changeover between them etc. I have not researched it in any detail myself.

Therefore would it be possible perhaps to sticky and lock a single message relating to U.S.S. Arizona's colours on December 7th 1941? Lay out each of the possibilities for colour schemes in terms of references to supporting documentation, dates, clearly stating any assumptions made etc.? Do it dispassionately, in say a bullet point type format under a heading for each colour scheme?

Basically present all the currently known possibilities in one place in a clear, concise way and let the individual modeller reading it decide for themselves which to opt for?
Post Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:19 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
Eduard do a set for the HobbyBoss 1/350 U.S.S. Arizona which I gather is the same tooling as Banner? Though I am not 100% sure.

https://www.eduard.com/Eduard/Photo-etched-parts/Photo-etched-set/Ships/1-350/USS-Arizona-1-350.html
https://www.eduard.com/eduard/photo-etched-parts/photo-etched-set/ships/1-350/uss-arizona-1941-railings-1-350.html
Post Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:05 am
  Post subject:  Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!  Reply with quote
DavidP wrote:
https://www.model-monkey.com/battleships-350


Yeah I've seen that, anything else out there that would be useful?
Post Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:54 pm

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