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Topic review - Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Sharing here some 1:200 drawings for the Russian Kirov class nuclear-powered cruiser Peter the Great. Chinese site but the plans (25 pages) are in Russian. High quality pdf. Apologies if they have been posted before.

http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?uk=2672290181&shareid=2750514366&fid=408578575205883

:thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:25 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
That would be a very strange place since then they are very prone to grounding and would scoop up a lot of dirt when you get into shallow waters.
The scoop on my ship at the moment is on the bottom, but as you mentioned it, flush with the bottom and smoothly shaped to go aft internally and to the condenser. This is likely to be the scoop of the Kirov as well, although it's a bit strange that they opt for very obvious scoops on their subs, but mount flush ones on their surface ships. I guess that's where Trumpeter took a guess.
Post Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Phil,

The Kirovs must have some sort of water intake. No question. I'm just saying that the very prominent scoops depicted in the Trumpeter kit have not only not been verified but the sketchy circumstantial evidence suggests they do not exist as depicted. There may well be a flush-hull V-inlet or some other type of scoop.

If the scoops existed in the shape and location depicted on the kit, a few of the photos I have should show some hint of them and they don't. Of course, they could by an althernate, less obvious shape or they could be located at the very bottom where no photo documentation exists.

Bob
Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:01 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
oops, got it. :doh_1: I have seen references to the other sonar as well. If it exists, perhaps an echo sounder or a dedicated underwater telephone?

Andrew
Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:57 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Bob, Without plans or photos it is reasonable to doubt. However, intake scoops for the condensers are pretty common. For example, the Clevelands had them back in the 40s. Because they were on the bottom of the hull there is no way you can tell from a photo of the ship in drydock that the scoops were there.

The alternative is to use pumps to force water through the condensers. This is less efficient.

The virtue of the scoops is that the faster the ship moves (forward) the more cooling water flows through the condensers. So increased coolant flow is automatic with increased speed and pumps are not needed. However, you still need coolant pumps for times when the ship is moving backwards.

Phil
Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:04 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
I agree with Neptune. I've looked extensively at the Kirovs and can find no evidence, even indirect, that a secondary hull sonar is mounted. The same applies for the intake scoops depicted in the Trumpeter kit. Admittedly, there is no definitive photo of the underside of the hull that I'm aware of but I've looked at indicators such as drydock hull support structures and I've manipulated photos to try to find evidence of either of those items and cannot. Until a definitive photo comes along that proves the issue one way or the other, my belief is the Kirovs do not mount secondary sonars or scoops. Take it for what it's worth!
Post Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:45 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Hi Andrew,

we're not talking about the bulb itself, that one does contain a sonar. The question is whether the Kirov class also had a hull mounted sonar in addition to the bow (bulb) mounted sonar. On some models, I believe also the Trumpeter model, such hull mounted sonar is depicted. It is however never proven to be present (or absent for that matter).
A hull mounted sonar is mounted below the keel, positioned somewhere around 2/3rd in length from the stern, as a compromise to avoid intereference from air bubbles from the bow and noise from the aft propulsion and power train.
If you have a sonar like that, in most cases there is no bulbous bow nor bow mounted sonar, like the Perry class, Grisha class and many more.
Considering we know the Kirovs to have a pronounced bulbous bow with a sonar and a full VDS, it is therefore unlikely that she would also have a keel mounted unit in addition to that.
Post Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:45 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Neptune wrote:

For now I really don't see any indication of a hull mounted sonar. I'm actually pretty sure there isn't any. Normally you can't combine these sonars since the bulbous bow generates air bubbles that would disturb any hull mounted sonar.

Hi guys,

I would not be too quick to jump to the conclusion that there is no sonar in the foward bulb.

Our old Charles F Adams class DDGs (Brisbane Hobat and Perth) all had a similar bulbous bow and the bulb did contain AN-SQS 23, a powerful medium to long range active sonar array. When conducting sonar sweeps, the ship was constrained to a certain speed so as to be able to "hear" the resulting echos. Speed of advance had no affect, good or otherwise, on the ability to transmit.

In the case of the Kirovs it is possible? that the bulb contains the very powerful Low Frequency active sonar (Horse Jaw), which may work in tandem with the VDS (Horse Tail). The bow sonar will transmit lots of sound and the VDS can be moved between the isothermal layers, looking for the returns from targets attempitng to "sit in the layer".

Just a thought.

Andrew
Post Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
And here are these Nakhimov pics.

It looks to me like she also has these bubbles as just aft of the prop above it you can see something curving on the hull.

Image

Image

For now I really don't see any indication of a hull mounted sonar. I'm actually pretty sure there isn't any. Normally you can't combine these sonars since the bulbous bow generates air bubbles that would disturb any hull mounted sonar. You could put it more aft, but then you'd have more disturbance from the engine room noises and propulsion system. On the Lazarev picture also I don't see any stop in the dry dock blocks that would indicate a hull mounted sonar. The Nakhimov picture, if cleaned up by gamma balance, could provide more info.
Not sure why they put these rather huge structures on her sides and stern before taking her out of the water. Looks a bit extensive to be just working platforms... Perhaps they don't really trust the hull anymore?
Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Yeah there have been more pics of Nakhimov dry, but mostly the lower part is obscured by darkness. Perhaps some gamma change in the picture would shed some light, but the latest versions of paint don't have that option anymore, so I can't really do it.

Something interesting as well is a dry dock picture of Lazarev. She appears to have the Udaloy style bubbles above her propellors. Also the propellors are interesting as it now appears that only Kirov was initially fitted with the four-bladed props, while all the other have five-blade props. Also Kirov was refitted with 5-blade versions I believe.
This looks like a typical "camouflage" job with current situation. In the end she is completely dismantled (seen pics of the inside), but they want it to look like it is in relatively good shape. They put the white waterline marking on starboard side and not on portside, as you can see also the anti-fouling is properly applied (she's not going to sail anyway). She was and probably will be moored alongside with portside alongside, so that from a distance you get to see the nice side with waterline etc.

Image
Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:08 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Four new photos of Admiral Nakhimov on keel blocks - sadly, no good angles on the mid-lower hull that would answer all our questions: http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/356322.html

Right click the images and open them in a new window/tab to see them full size.
Post Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:38 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Not entirely sure about that. There is some progress since they have now removed the old radars from Nakhimov. Of course the question is always whether that is for scrapping preparation or overhaul. Also the budget itself for doing this job may actually be lower than what they announce with the remaining money going somewhere else...
Will be difficult to tell. I'm also assuming that money that was allocated in the past was mainly used for redesigning the ship for modifications, such redesign can take a lot of time and money without being visible at all on the ship itself. Perhaps now with removal of the radars and additional money they have finally started the upgrade.
Post Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:41 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Ticonderoga wrote:
Hi All,

A quick quote from a February military magazine


By Rear Admiral Viktor Burusk, Deputy Commander Russian Navy:

Burusk said that Russia will continue the repair and overhaul of the “Admiral Nakhimov” – The Kirov class cruiser, previously known as the Kalinin. Nakhimov is due to rejoin the flet in 2018 with the most advanced weapons systems for its vessel type. The Russian Navy will receive 40 new warships and auxiliaries in 2014.

Exciting times for the Russian Navy!



I suspect the work on admiral nakhimov is not in earnest. There is no real intention to restore her to any real level of readiness. Instead I think it is a smoke screen to justify some portion of the naval budget without revealing the real use of the budget.
Post Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:17 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Hello to all you internet sleuths. I am looking for some pictures of inside the bridge of Varyag, can anyone help?

So far I have these:

http://army-news.ru/2011/09/flagman-tof-raketnyj-krejser-varyag/

Thanks

Andrew
Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:28 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
To be honest, I doubt that ship will ever see service.
She looks rather shabby at the moment. She looks more or less complete, but the equipment and paint looks in a deplorable state. Not at all new, and that's what you'd want when you "buy" a new ship. Without any sign of maintenance she may already be beyond repair/use. Perhaps they'll just take off whatever they can for spares.
If they would take it after all, it would probably take up a large amount of budget, in a Nakhimov-fashion... for little use.
I'm not sure about that kit. The Ukraina actually has different funnels etc. I have my doubts Trumpeter took that in account.

As for foreign buyers. There's probably nobody interested. The main interest would be the Vulkan anti-ship missile (the Rif was already copied by the Chinese, so no interest in that anymore). And that Vulkan has such a range that it cannot be sold abroad. Refitting her would again cost a lot of money and the general ship structure is outdated by far now, no real stealth features. It would just become a floating missile battery, a very visible one at that. I doubt she'd last long in today's battlefield.
Post Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:23 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
With the events currently transpiring in the Ukraine, if the country splits in two, or if the pro-Russian eastern half of the country is absorbed by Russia, does anyone here think that Russia will simply just absorb the cruiser VILNA UKRAINIA into their navy? Or perhaps for the navy of an independent Eastern Ukraine? Or sell the ship on the arms market to a buyer such as India/China?

Last I read, that Slava class cruiser was currently being completed for the Ukrainian Navy with Russian help.

There is even a Trumpeter kit available of the VILNA UKRAINIA in 1/700.
Post Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:14 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Hi All,

A quick quote from a February military magazine


By Rear Admiral Viktor Burusk, Deputy Commander Russian Navy:

Burusk said that Russia will continue the repair and overhaul of the “Admiral Nakhimov” – The Kirov class cruiser, previously known as the Kalinin. Nakhimov is due to rejoin the flet in 2018 with the most advanced weapons systems for its vessel type. The Russian Navy will receive 40 new warships and auxiliaries in 2014.

Exciting times for the Russian Navy!
Post Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:54 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Hi All,

A long shot I know, but does anyone have a rough idea of what the diameter of the rivets around the superstructure and bridge windows on the Slava would be? :thinking: :thinking:

Andrew
Post Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:59 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
That must create a big cloud of chaff but I suppose these ships are so big they need it. I didn't see this mystery when I went through the pages but I am glad you have cleared it up. Another mystery (to me) was the round things with spouts that looked like the Russian heavy duty fire extinguisher nozzles and a big red star on them. Eventually i found a reference to them in these invaluable pages and only then discovered they are decoy launchers!

EDIT: Actually, I think these are the same things. I seem to be getting confused all over the place!
Post Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:46 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
This would be the picture I was talking about. You can even see a second launch near the deck. It's from the Chaff Launcher system, as it tends to fire two shots at once when firing. Notice how far forward it is, practically next to the RBU launcher on the forecastle, FAR too forward for the SA-N-9, and nothing like its launch profile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SA-N- ... ze%29.JPEG
Post Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:18 am

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