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Topic review - Calling all Kirov & Slava (Киров и Слава) class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov & Slava (Киров и Слава) class fans  Reply with quote
Timmy C wrote:
Oh, check out these photos during Varyag's visit to Vancouver 2011 - some were taken by friends for me, others are from Flickr or news sources:
http://imgur.com/a/XDau7
http://imgur.com/a/5wdN1



Hi Timmy,

very detailed photos on the link sent, one of which is clearly visible the RHIB (although is covered) as well as the colours of the starboard ShipBoat.
http://i.imgur.com/jDWaj.jpg

Indeed very useful links!


Thanks.
Regards,
Ayala Botto
Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:18 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov & Slava (Киров и Слава) class fans  Reply with quote
Oh, check out these photos during Varyag's visit to Vancouver 2011 - some were taken by friends for me, others are from Flickr or news sources:
http://imgur.com/a/XDau7
http://imgur.com/a/5wdN1
Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:08 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov & Slava (Киров и Слава) class fans  Reply with quote
Timmy C wrote:
Helodeck: red in 1995 , red in 2002, green in 2004, green in 2011.

Anchors: http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/169/02169047.jpg

And check out her page on Navsource.narod.ru: http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/171/index.html



Hi Timmy,

Thanks a lot for the URL sent. Fantastic photos!
I need yo paint the helipad with the green colour!

Also the photo with the anchor clarifies my doubt. The anchor is rusty and creates a contrast with the (black) background.
All photos I have seen, the anchor is also black, and for this reason is difficult to see the position of the anchor.

Regarding my question nº1 and nº2, I managed to find a photo (by Vladimir Yakubov) of the Guided Missile Cruiser Varyag in San Francisco on June 2010.
It shows the colour of the ship boat, but also shows a "hidden" RHIB close the FWD funnels, located on the right side of the boom crane.
Not sure if there is (or not) a 2nd RHIB on the left side of the boom crane.....

I would not be surprised if a warship of this size could have 2x RHIB's onboard....

Can you spot the RHIB?
Image

The ship boat is painted white, except the hull bellow the water line and the deck that seems to be green.


Link with fantastic photos of the Guided Missile Cruiser Varyag in San Francisco on June 2010 by Vladimir Yakubov:
http://svsm.org/gallery/varyag?page=1


Thanks.
Regards,
Ayala Botto
Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:46 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov & Slava (Киров и Слава) class fans  Reply with quote
Helodeck: red in 1995 , red in 2002, green in 2004, green in 2011.

Anchors: http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/169/02169047.jpg

And check out her page on Navsource.narod.ru: http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/171/index.html
Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:07 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov & Slava (Киров и Слава) class fans  Reply with quote
Hi,

Two more questions about the Russian Navy Cruiser Varyag Project 1164:

3 - What's the colour of the helipad: Green or red brick?

4 - What's the position/angle of the anchors when they are not is use?



Thanks
Regards,
Ayala Botto
Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:47 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov & Slava (Киров и Слава) class fans  Reply with quote
Hi,

A couple of questions regarding the Ship Boats / RHIB aboard the Russian Slava Cruisers Project 1164, since I'm "refitting" my 1/700 Trumpeter (ref 05721) Russian Navy Cruiser Varyag (pennant number 011).


1 - What are the colours of the two Ship Boats (not sure about the correct designation)?

2 - Shouldn't I replace one of the Ship Boats with a RHIB?



Review of this model available here:
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html


The refit I have in mind will include the addition of the following PhotoEtched items:

• Fwd Mast (Top): MR-700/710M (Top Steer) 3D air search radar
• Fwd Mast (Front): Palm Front Door-C - Radar MR-1164 Argon Front Door-C
• Fwd Mast (Front): Palm Frond (1x) - Radar MR-212 Nyada - surface search radar
• Fwd Mast Yard Arms (Sides) : Palm Frond (2x) - Radar MR-212 Nyada - surface search radar
• Aft Mast (Top): MR-800 Voskhod (Top Pair) 3D early warning radar
• Rails,
• Whip Antennas


Not sure if I should create a specific topic/thread for this refit....


Thanks.
Regards,
Ayala Botto
Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:33 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov & Slava (Киров и Слава) class fans  Reply with quote
my sons wants us to have a group build... they want a Russian fleet to challenge my USN :)
so, i'm thinking of purchasing the following in 1/700 scale:
1. Dragon7074 or Trumpeter05710 Kirov
2. Dragon7048 Sovremenny
3. Trumpeter05720 Slava

i also want to make the Udaloy and the Kashin, but PitRoad/SkyWave, GalaxyToy, and Combrig models are hard to find here in "Pinas"... hoping i can order from my fave hobby shop/s...

question: any big difference (or error) in the make of Dragon and Trumpeter for the Kirov?

thank you!
Post Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:43 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Hi guys

I still have my 1/350 Pyotr Velikiy to start, I have added 6 sets of Orange Hobby aftermarket Kashtan's, some pics now of the rear part of the main deck that show in a very dark / black colour. And spare Cross Sword for some yet to fit SA-N-9 forward. Also have the Gold Medal Models Etch as I believe it covers the last ship (Velikiy) with its etch components & some Master Model barrels.

Taking a long time on this one.
Thanks
Peter Hoskins
Sydney, AU
Post Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:43 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Sharing here some 1:200 drawings for the Russian Kirov class nuclear-powered cruiser Peter the Great. Chinese site but the plans (25 pages) are in Russian. High quality pdf. Apologies if they have been posted before.

http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?uk=2672290181&shareid=2750514366&fid=408578575205883

:thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:25 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
That would be a very strange place since then they are very prone to grounding and would scoop up a lot of dirt when you get into shallow waters.
The scoop on my ship at the moment is on the bottom, but as you mentioned it, flush with the bottom and smoothly shaped to go aft internally and to the condenser. This is likely to be the scoop of the Kirov as well, although it's a bit strange that they opt for very obvious scoops on their subs, but mount flush ones on their surface ships. I guess that's where Trumpeter took a guess.
Post Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Phil,

The Kirovs must have some sort of water intake. No question. I'm just saying that the very prominent scoops depicted in the Trumpeter kit have not only not been verified but the sketchy circumstantial evidence suggests they do not exist as depicted. There may well be a flush-hull V-inlet or some other type of scoop.

If the scoops existed in the shape and location depicted on the kit, a few of the photos I have should show some hint of them and they don't. Of course, they could by an althernate, less obvious shape or they could be located at the very bottom where no photo documentation exists.

Bob
Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:01 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
oops, got it. :doh_1: I have seen references to the other sonar as well. If it exists, perhaps an echo sounder or a dedicated underwater telephone?

Andrew
Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:57 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Bob, Without plans or photos it is reasonable to doubt. However, intake scoops for the condensers are pretty common. For example, the Clevelands had them back in the 40s. Because they were on the bottom of the hull there is no way you can tell from a photo of the ship in drydock that the scoops were there.

The alternative is to use pumps to force water through the condensers. This is less efficient.

The virtue of the scoops is that the faster the ship moves (forward) the more cooling water flows through the condensers. So increased coolant flow is automatic with increased speed and pumps are not needed. However, you still need coolant pumps for times when the ship is moving backwards.

Phil
Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:04 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
I agree with Neptune. I've looked extensively at the Kirovs and can find no evidence, even indirect, that a secondary hull sonar is mounted. The same applies for the intake scoops depicted in the Trumpeter kit. Admittedly, there is no definitive photo of the underside of the hull that I'm aware of but I've looked at indicators such as drydock hull support structures and I've manipulated photos to try to find evidence of either of those items and cannot. Until a definitive photo comes along that proves the issue one way or the other, my belief is the Kirovs do not mount secondary sonars or scoops. Take it for what it's worth!
Post Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:45 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Hi Andrew,

we're not talking about the bulb itself, that one does contain a sonar. The question is whether the Kirov class also had a hull mounted sonar in addition to the bow (bulb) mounted sonar. On some models, I believe also the Trumpeter model, such hull mounted sonar is depicted. It is however never proven to be present (or absent for that matter).
A hull mounted sonar is mounted below the keel, positioned somewhere around 2/3rd in length from the stern, as a compromise to avoid intereference from air bubbles from the bow and noise from the aft propulsion and power train.
If you have a sonar like that, in most cases there is no bulbous bow nor bow mounted sonar, like the Perry class, Grisha class and many more.
Considering we know the Kirovs to have a pronounced bulbous bow with a sonar and a full VDS, it is therefore unlikely that she would also have a keel mounted unit in addition to that.
Post Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:45 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Neptune wrote:

For now I really don't see any indication of a hull mounted sonar. I'm actually pretty sure there isn't any. Normally you can't combine these sonars since the bulbous bow generates air bubbles that would disturb any hull mounted sonar.

Hi guys,

I would not be too quick to jump to the conclusion that there is no sonar in the foward bulb.

Our old Charles F Adams class DDGs (Brisbane Hobat and Perth) all had a similar bulbous bow and the bulb did contain AN-SQS 23, a powerful medium to long range active sonar array. When conducting sonar sweeps, the ship was constrained to a certain speed so as to be able to "hear" the resulting echos. Speed of advance had no affect, good or otherwise, on the ability to transmit.

In the case of the Kirovs it is possible? that the bulb contains the very powerful Low Frequency active sonar (Horse Jaw), which may work in tandem with the VDS (Horse Tail). The bow sonar will transmit lots of sound and the VDS can be moved between the isothermal layers, looking for the returns from targets attempitng to "sit in the layer".

Just a thought.

Andrew
Post Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:28 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
And here are these Nakhimov pics.

It looks to me like she also has these bubbles as just aft of the prop above it you can see something curving on the hull.

Image

Image

For now I really don't see any indication of a hull mounted sonar. I'm actually pretty sure there isn't any. Normally you can't combine these sonars since the bulbous bow generates air bubbles that would disturb any hull mounted sonar. You could put it more aft, but then you'd have more disturbance from the engine room noises and propulsion system. On the Lazarev picture also I don't see any stop in the dry dock blocks that would indicate a hull mounted sonar. The Nakhimov picture, if cleaned up by gamma balance, could provide more info.
Not sure why they put these rather huge structures on her sides and stern before taking her out of the water. Looks a bit extensive to be just working platforms... Perhaps they don't really trust the hull anymore?
Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Yeah there have been more pics of Nakhimov dry, but mostly the lower part is obscured by darkness. Perhaps some gamma change in the picture would shed some light, but the latest versions of paint don't have that option anymore, so I can't really do it.

Something interesting as well is a dry dock picture of Lazarev. She appears to have the Udaloy style bubbles above her propellors. Also the propellors are interesting as it now appears that only Kirov was initially fitted with the four-bladed props, while all the other have five-blade props. Also Kirov was refitted with 5-blade versions I believe.
This looks like a typical "camouflage" job with current situation. In the end she is completely dismantled (seen pics of the inside), but they want it to look like it is in relatively good shape. They put the white waterline marking on starboard side and not on portside, as you can see also the anti-fouling is properly applied (she's not going to sail anyway). She was and probably will be moored alongside with portside alongside, so that from a distance you get to see the nice side with waterline etc.

Image
Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:08 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Four new photos of Admiral Nakhimov on keel blocks - sadly, no good angles on the mid-lower hull that would answer all our questions: http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/356322.html

Right click the images and open them in a new window/tab to see them full size.
Post Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:38 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Kirov, Slava & Ushakov class fans  Reply with quote
Not entirely sure about that. There is some progress since they have now removed the old radars from Nakhimov. Of course the question is always whether that is for scrapping preparation or overhaul. Also the budget itself for doing this job may actually be lower than what they announce with the remaining money going somewhere else...
Will be difficult to tell. I'm also assuming that money that was allocated in the past was mainly used for redesigning the ship for modifications, such redesign can take a lot of time and money without being visible at all on the ship itself. Perhaps now with removal of the radars and additional money they have finally started the upgrade.
Post Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:41 am

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