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Topic review - Calling all IJN Takao class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
hi, mates
I did look into the issue of turrets placing pr suggested by Dan.
Aside from accuracy problem of the mold by the kit-maker & the Flyhawk they( of the actual ships) ought to be
at the same place for Atago and Takao due to adoption of the common body-design and the same armament arrangements,and yes they ARE.
An image will later follow after breakfast to show proof of this,hopefully.
br
mucho,
Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:03 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
That's most unfortunate, but we appreciate your posting the information. There were some issues with the Fujimi Takao hull, but as far as I know, they weren't related to the turrets. And I don't recall coming across any information that suggested that the placement of the turrets varied appreciably between the sisters. Maybe Mucho has better information on that.

I hope your build works out.
Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:09 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Well I bit the bullet and bought the flyhawk metal deck for 1/700 Fujimi Takao to see if it would fit the Fujimi Atago kit. And the results? No, it does not fit Atago (unfortunate, but at least the part was inexpensive). To be more precise, the bow section almost fits, but it seems that the holes for the turrets are spaced just slightly different between the two molds, and thus, it ends up being a tad too short for Atago. In other words, Atago’s turrets seems to be spaced out just a little more than Takao’s.

The stern section, on the other hand, really does not fit Atago, for more or less for the same reason as above, but just more obviously.

Aside from the different layout of vents, ammo boxes, etc. between the two ships, (which can easily be worked around), it was simply the spacing of the turrets that makes the Takao deck unable to fit Atago. I just thought that I would post this info here for anyone that might be looking for this info.

I guess now I could do as Phil suggested and paint on thinly the brass stripes. I understand that it would be overscale, but I just really want that overall visual effect on the deck. But if it turns out to be way too tedious again, (considering I already went through the entire deck to put on these brass strips), I suppose I’m more willing now to let go of it entirely and just go with all linoleum. If only flyhawk made a deck for Atago...
Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:02 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Dan K wrote:
Thank you very much, Mucho. Yes, those details haven't been picked up by other references that I've seen so far.


You´re most welcome,Dan. FI,it is only Chokai which differentiates in shape of the capstan-mount from the other three sisters.
Have not found any closer pics of Atago;it will be highly probable she also had the same anti-skids treatment on the anchor deck as Chokai´s, my guess.

I must say other Takao cl. researchers may have been hehind times,they used to give info to Takao class kit maters incl. fighting-ship magazines so far. I know and am familiar with one of them(in my activity circle) who is in closer contact. Let´s see how it goes with him/them doing their ample justice on them in the future.

br,
mucho,


Attachments:
ASIASIimg598chokaiatago.jpg
ASIASIimg598chokaiatago.jpg [ 30.64 KiB | Viewed 75 times ]
Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:48 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Thank you very much, Mucho. Yes, those details haven't been picked up by other references that I've seen so far.
Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:49 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Dan K wrote:
Any way to show how different, Mucho?


yea,Chokai´s anti-skids are in parallel mostly,the mount of the capstans is seperated,whereas, Takao/Maya´s anti-skids are in the direction of X,the mount of their capstans is in one solid form.
And arrangement of anti-skids for Atago looks like that of Chokai´s, indeed.
These may be kinetic differences on the anchor deck.

by the way,both fujimi and aoshoma Takao 1/350 must have mixed up with Chokai with respect to expression of shape of the capstan mount.:(


mucho,

the 2nd image shows Takao & Maya. Atago´s is identical to them.


Attachments:
ASIIMG_0241sm.jpg
ASIIMG_0241sm.jpg [ 98.23 KiB | Viewed 131 times ]
ASIASI2-12 Maya smcmb.jpg
ASIASI2-12 Maya smcmb.jpg [ 41.99 KiB | Viewed 89 times ]
Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Any way to show how different, Mucho?
Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:43 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Fairleads, anchors etc are yet to make,sorted out mushroom vents and skylights.
I came to know Chokai´s anchor deck is not the same as ohter 3 Takao cl. sisterhips.= anti-skids layout,capstan to name a few.

mucho


Attachments:
ASIIMG_0258csm.jpg
ASIIMG_0258csm.jpg [ 66.76 KiB | Viewed 206 times ]
Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:07 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
I have never modeled the brass strips on the Japanese ships, so I can't offer any specific advice from experience.

However, even if you could use 0.003" brass, the strips would be over 2" scale - way over sized.

I have modeled other very thin features, and for these I just use paint. You might just paint the linoleum deck color first, let it dry thoroughly, and then try masking the brass strips with very clean edge tape. Getting a consistent width for the strips will be tedious. Use a very light spray of brass colored paint - if you over do it the paint may run under the edges of the tape. Try spraying in the direction of the length of the brass strips to avoid blowing the paint under the tape. Expect to have to touch up a few places where the brass paint gets under the tape.

A heavy coat of paint will be nearly a scale inch thick at 1:700.

Phil
Post Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:42 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Personally, i can't advise you, as I don't do the tie-down strips in 1/700. I feel doing so would be overscale as the real things were but 30mm W x 5mm H. So, if you were willing to endorse that view, then you could sand down any glue spots and just let it go with linoleum paint.

Admittedly, those metal decks are popular for that very reason, to replicate the tie-down strips. I believe scraping them down with a blade after painting is what most folks do. FWIW.
Post Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:19 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Hi guys,

I’m struggling real hard with the brass strips on the linoleum deck, and am looking for some advice...

I’m working on the Fujimi 1/700 Atago, and this is my first stab at “advanced” techniques... or maybe it's more accurate to say that this is a practice model for said techniques.

Anyway, I know that the takao-class had brass strips on the deck to hold the linoleum, and in my research, I naively thought I could just simply stick on Flyhawk brass strips onto the deck, paint over it, and then scrape away at the paint to get the brass color to show through.

Boy, how wrong I was in thinking how simple this might be. I spent many, many hours sticking on each brass strips to the deck, and they came out looking just terrible. It was really difficult to keep these strips straight AND properly glued onto the deck. Too many times they would come unpeeled on the edges because of my poor handling.

But in my frustration and exhaustion with this, I decided I’ll just move in and go ahead and paint over it. Once I began the scraping process, though, I noticed that the brass color hardly even shows through; what little does show through, it just doesn’t even look good. I feel utterly defeated with this, and am beginning to think I quite possibly wasted too many hours sticking in these strips in the first place...

Here is what I'm working with Is this still salvageable? I’ve seen some of the 1/700 Takao/Maya builds in the gallery, and a lot of them have really nice, straight brass strips along the deck. How is this achieved? What could I do to produce similar results, what techniques/parts were used? I did find that Flyhawk offers this really nice looking PE deck for the Takao, and I'm not actually certain this could be used on the Atago deck. It seems like the rectangular molding just in front of the A turret is slightly different (and some deck vents/ammo box layout, but these can be easily worked around).
Still, even if this Takao PE deck could be used on the Atago, how can I get the brass strips to show through? As stated above, I'm not having much luck with scraping the paint off..

Thank you guys!
Post Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:25 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Dan K wrote:
So, does that mean that Chokai '44 had AA platform layouts between the funnels similar to Maya? I can't envision any other arrangement.


no, Dan,those dual barrelled 25mm mgs and number of the gun tubs between the funnels are intact on Chokai.
Obviously not similar in this area.
But i can still count the overall numbers of the AA guns up to ca.54 for her, as of May,2018.
( surey I did count single 25 mm mg not as 12, but 24 in all from another source of info)
Hoping to find some more,so it may come up to 56-57 or even 60.
I think 54-56 would be quite ok to satisfy the demand of Chokai´s AA gunnery commanding officer(s).:d


mucho,
Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:59 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
I meant the platform layouts, and number of triple mounts. I'm trying to account for the increase in AA as Mucho cites. Those are not all singles.
Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:57 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
I always thought she will have this AA disposition in 1944.
Dan K wrote:
"similar to Maya?"

Do you mean also in shape ? The base, I mean the gun tubs. As far as I know there is no 100% hard evidence of how IJN Chokai's 1944 AA disposition was. And I guess too the gun tubs, at least the "1944" ones are all fictitious in shape(and size), IJN Maya's too.Shipyards plans (if any post 1943 exist ) might be different of what actually was put in service like size and shape of an AA gun tub and in some rare occasion might the number of the AA actually change too without that getting reflected in the original shipyard plans.
Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:12 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
So, does that mean that Chokai '44 had AA platform layouts between the funnels similar to Maya? I can't envision any other arrangement.
Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:43 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Thanks for the info.
Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:33 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Dan K wrote:
Nice! Keep on truckin', Mucho.


hi, Dan, As I wrote to Navy Yard assoc. journal june, Chokai had ca. 60 x 25 mm mgs, almost the same numbers as Maya,1944. I recken mr. Fukui Shizuo must have been kind of mischievous ( info from his file is 38 x 25 mm guns only)when he was asked to report to the 2nd repatriatoin bureau. :)d

yea Mike,the mg tubs were of quite simplified model as shown on the models. It was a war-time solution for dockyards to curtail working hours to make them as such. IJN also made it a rule to use anti-skid metal strips, it was 2-go type used for gun tubs( 25 cm in length type)

br
mucho
Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:18 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Yes for the anti-skid, with some rare exceptions. Not sure about size, but I guess if it will be a standard size it will be the British size and style, if any.
Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:47 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Looking good! Do those tubs usually have anti-skid on the bottoms of the tubs? Did Japanese shipyards use standard sized tubs like those found in the USN?
Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Nice! Keep on truckin', Mucho.
Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:01 pm

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