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Topic review - Calling all IJN Takao class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
For a change of air a small task was assinged in order to identify name of the ship in the pic posted now.As a hint this is from a wartime "Umi-to Sora" magazine,time of photo taking must be early 1944 where nr.4 fleet´s 4 x Takao class cruisers were doing excercise for a new Operation.

mucho


Attachments:
ASIIMG_0267sm.jpg
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Post Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:48 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Duke wrote:
Thank you Dan and Mucho for the confirmation. How unfortunate indeed...
If I understand this correctly (based on this, and older comments in this thread), is it that the Fujimi Takao set has some proportional mistakes (along with others) and Fujimi have since corrected these for the other 3 sisters?


I would advise you to talk with kit-model builders for detailed explanation(there are many experienced kit modellers inc.Dan) since I do only in large-scaled scratch builds.
Here is one of reference sites to show how body-parts are different, esp. fujimi´s Takao class 1/700 =Takao and Atago.
Fujimi´s Maya model allegedly has it´s own body, fujimi Chokai´s body is the same as Atago & Maya(bulges in seperate parts,place of degaussing cable will have to be calibrated by modellers themselves)
http://blog.pastime.ne.jp/waterline-ser ... atago/1877

I am not certain to which extent Fujimi might have made proportional mistakes for their Takao class cruiser models,but Pitroad is a dark horce;it´s products are to be more accurate and precise than those of other companies´s.
When I remember back to early 2004(?),I sent 1/200 drawing of heavy cruiser Furutaka to a Pitroad production staff,he got it reflected very precisely on 1/700 Furutaka model to my surprise.Then Tamiya followed suits.

br
mucho,
Post Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:45 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Thank you Dan and Mucho for the confirmation. How unfortunate indeed...
If I understand this correctly (based on this, and older comments in this thread), is it that the Fujimi Takao set has some proportional mistakes (along with others) and Fujimi have since corrected these for the other 3 sisters?
Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:24 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Dan K wrote:
I'm guessing that Fujimi took the opportunity to weak the mold after getting all the negative feedback. The same hull is used for the other three Fujimi sister kits. That doesn't really help anybody looking for a metal deck for the Fujimi kits, aside from the Flyhawk Maya deck.


It looks like Fujimi is /was at 6´s and 7´s with finding appropriate tech advicer(s),in addition, the price of making a mold form must be not cheap, so it must have economized in a way. Fujimi lost sight of an usual tech advicer and he found himself within Pitroad last year..:D
Was making fairleads and anchors. Will do the anchor hose-pipe afterwards, so the anchors may well fit inside the recess.

mucho,


Attachments:
ASIIMG_0259fb.jpg
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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:36 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Great. Thx for confirming that, Mucho. It really didn't make sense to think that there would have been any appreciable variation in the actual ships.

I'm guessing that Fujimi took the opportunity to tweak the mold after getting all the negative feedback. The same hull is used for the other three Fujimi sister kits. That doesn't really help anybody looking for a metal deck for the Fujimi kits, aside from the Flyhawk Maya deck.
Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:08 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Turrets should rest at the same frame number(s) for both ships(and other 2 sisterships), and they actually do.
I´m afraid it´s plastic kit-model maker and/or etching parts co.that are messing around with placing of them...

br
mucho,


Attachments:
ASIASItakaoatagos turret wells.jpg
ASIASItakaoatagos turret wells.jpg [ 65.1 KiB | Viewed 142 times ]
Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:48 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
hi, mates
I did look into the issue of turrets placing pr suggested by Dan.
Aside from accuracy problem of the mold by the kit-maker & the Flyhawk they( of the actual ships) ought to be
at the same place for Atago and Takao due to adoption of the common body-design and the same armament arrangements,and yes they ARE.
An image will later follow after breakfast to show proof of this,hopefully.
br
mucho,
Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:03 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
That's most unfortunate, but we appreciate your posting the information. There were some issues with the Fujimi Takao hull, but as far as I know, they weren't related to the turrets. And I don't recall coming across any information that suggested that the placement of the turrets varied appreciably between the sisters. Maybe Mucho has better information on that.

I hope your build works out.
Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:09 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Well I bit the bullet and bought the flyhawk metal deck for 1/700 Fujimi Takao to see if it would fit the Fujimi Atago kit. And the results? No, it does not fit Atago (unfortunate, but at least the part was inexpensive). To be more precise, the bow section almost fits, but it seems that the holes for the turrets are spaced just slightly different between the two molds, and thus, it ends up being a tad too short for Atago. In other words, Atago’s turrets seems to be spaced out just a little more than Takao’s.

The stern section, on the other hand, really does not fit Atago, for more or less for the same reason as above, but just more obviously.

Aside from the different layout of vents, ammo boxes, etc. between the two ships, (which can easily be worked around), it was simply the spacing of the turrets that makes the Takao deck unable to fit Atago. I just thought that I would post this info here for anyone that might be looking for this info.

I guess now I could do as Phil suggested and paint on thinly the brass stripes. I understand that it would be overscale, but I just really want that overall visual effect on the deck. But if it turns out to be way too tedious again, (considering I already went through the entire deck to put on these brass strips), I suppose I’m more willing now to let go of it entirely and just go with all linoleum. If only flyhawk made a deck for Atago...
Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:02 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Dan K wrote:
Thank you very much, Mucho. Yes, those details haven't been picked up by other references that I've seen so far.


You´re most welcome,Dan. FI,it is only Chokai which differentiates in shape of the capstan-mount from the other three sisters.
Have not found any closer pics of Atago;it will be highly probable she also had the same anti-skids treatment on the anchor deck as Chokai´s, my guess.

I must say other Takao cl. researchers may have been hehind times,they used to give info to Takao class kit maters incl. fighting-ship magazines so far. I know and am familiar with one of them(in my activity circle) who is in closer contact. Let´s see how it goes with him/them doing their ample justice on them in the future.

br,
mucho,


Attachments:
ASIASIimg598chokaiatago.jpg
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:48 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Thank you very much, Mucho. Yes, those details haven't been picked up by other references that I've seen so far.
Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:49 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Dan K wrote:
Any way to show how different, Mucho?


yea,Chokai´s anti-skids are in parallel mostly,the mount of the capstans is seperated,whereas, Takao/Maya´s anti-skids are in the direction of X,the mount of their capstans is in one solid form.
And arrangement of anti-skids for Atago looks like that of Chokai´s, indeed.
These may be kinetic differences on the anchor deck.

by the way,both fujimi and aoshoma Takao 1/350 must have mixed up with Chokai with respect to expression of shape of the capstan mount.:(


mucho,

the 2nd image shows Takao & Maya. Atago´s is identical to them.


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ASIASI2-12 Maya smcmb.jpg
ASIASI2-12 Maya smcmb.jpg [ 41.99 KiB | Viewed 245 times ]
Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Any way to show how different, Mucho?
Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:43 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Fairleads, anchors etc are yet to make,sorted out mushroom vents and skylights.
I came to know Chokai´s anchor deck is not the same as ohter 3 Takao cl. sisterhips.= anti-skids layout,capstan to name a few.

mucho


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:07 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
I have never modeled the brass strips on the Japanese ships, so I can't offer any specific advice from experience.

However, even if you could use 0.003" brass, the strips would be over 2" scale - way over sized.

I have modeled other very thin features, and for these I just use paint. You might just paint the linoleum deck color first, let it dry thoroughly, and then try masking the brass strips with very clean edge tape. Getting a consistent width for the strips will be tedious. Use a very light spray of brass colored paint - if you over do it the paint may run under the edges of the tape. Try spraying in the direction of the length of the brass strips to avoid blowing the paint under the tape. Expect to have to touch up a few places where the brass paint gets under the tape.

A heavy coat of paint will be nearly a scale inch thick at 1:700.

Phil
Post Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:42 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Personally, i can't advise you, as I don't do the tie-down strips in 1/700. I feel doing so would be overscale as the real things were but 30mm W x 5mm H. So, if you were willing to endorse that view, then you could sand down any glue spots and just let it go with linoleum paint.

Admittedly, those metal decks are popular for that very reason, to replicate the tie-down strips. I believe scraping them down with a blade after painting is what most folks do. FWIW.
Post Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:19 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Hi guys,

I’m struggling real hard with the brass strips on the linoleum deck, and am looking for some advice...

I’m working on the Fujimi 1/700 Atago, and this is my first stab at “advanced” techniques... or maybe it's more accurate to say that this is a practice model for said techniques.

Anyway, I know that the takao-class had brass strips on the deck to hold the linoleum, and in my research, I naively thought I could just simply stick on Flyhawk brass strips onto the deck, paint over it, and then scrape away at the paint to get the brass color to show through.

Boy, how wrong I was in thinking how simple this might be. I spent many, many hours sticking on each brass strips to the deck, and they came out looking just terrible. It was really difficult to keep these strips straight AND properly glued onto the deck. Too many times they would come unpeeled on the edges because of my poor handling.

But in my frustration and exhaustion with this, I decided I’ll just move in and go ahead and paint over it. Once I began the scraping process, though, I noticed that the brass color hardly even shows through; what little does show through, it just doesn’t even look good. I feel utterly defeated with this, and am beginning to think I quite possibly wasted too many hours sticking in these strips in the first place...

Here is what I'm working with Is this still salvageable? I’ve seen some of the 1/700 Takao/Maya builds in the gallery, and a lot of them have really nice, straight brass strips along the deck. How is this achieved? What could I do to produce similar results, what techniques/parts were used? I did find that Flyhawk offers this really nice looking PE deck for the Takao, and I'm not actually certain this could be used on the Atago deck. It seems like the rectangular molding just in front of the A turret is slightly different (and some deck vents/ammo box layout, but these can be easily worked around).
Still, even if this Takao PE deck could be used on the Atago, how can I get the brass strips to show through? As stated above, I'm not having much luck with scraping the paint off..

Thank you guys!
Post Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:25 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
Dan K wrote:
So, does that mean that Chokai '44 had AA platform layouts between the funnels similar to Maya? I can't envision any other arrangement.


no, Dan,those dual barrelled 25mm mgs and number of the gun tubs between the funnels are intact on Chokai.
Obviously not similar in this area.
But i can still count the overall numbers of the AA guns up to ca.54 for her, as of May,2018.
( surey I did count single 25 mm mg not as 12, but 24 in all from another source of info)
Hoping to find some more,so it may come up to 56-57 or even 60.
I think 54-56 would be quite ok to satisfy the demand of Chokai´s AA gunnery commanding officer(s).:d


mucho,
Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:59 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
I meant the platform layouts, and number of triple mounts. I'm trying to account for the increase in AA as Mucho cites. Those are not all singles.
Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:57 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all IJN Takao class fans  Reply with quote
I always thought she will have this AA disposition in 1944.
Dan K wrote:
"similar to Maya?"

Do you mean also in shape ? The base, I mean the gun tubs. As far as I know there is no 100% hard evidence of how IJN Chokai's 1944 AA disposition was. And I guess too the gun tubs, at least the "1944" ones are all fictitious in shape(and size), IJN Maya's too.Shipyards plans (if any post 1943 exist ) might be different of what actually was put in service like size and shape of an AA gun tub and in some rare occasion might the number of the AA actually change too without that getting reflected in the original shipyard plans.
Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:12 am

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