The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:55 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post a reply
Post icon:
None
Username:
Subject:
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 60000 characters. 

Font size:
Font colour
Options:
BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Disable BBCode
Do not automatically parse URLs
Question
What is the name in the logo in the top left? (hint it's something dot com):
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
   

Topic review - Calling all Arethusa class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
Thanks Tim. I thought it must be, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to turn it on either beam.

thanks
Mike
Post Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:30 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
According to Theo Ballance The Squadrons and Units of the Fleet Air Arm (Tonbridge: Air-Britain, 2016), she carried an EIIIH catapult from completion until it was removed during her repairs after the Norwegian campaign (August 1940). The "E" means extendible.

She was allocated one Seafox (serial K8588) throughout.
Post Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:48 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
not telescopic.
Post Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:10 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
I'm Building Flyhawk's HMS Penelope, prior to the Norwegian campaign. Was the catapult telescopic and which is the correct aircraft for her in the first few months of the war, the Seafox or Walrus?

thanks
Mike
Post Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:31 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
Regarding the camouflage of Penelope in 1940: a photo in HMS Pepperpot shows that the light colour (white) was added before she got the heavy list, because the dirt is clearly over the light colour. This indicates the camouflage was NOT applied during the repairs, but before. But when? Still in Scapa Flow? Could it be an experimental camouflage for coastal areas, perhaps even both for winter in Scapa Flow (is there snow??) and in Norway...
Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:40 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
https://www.world-war.co.uk/Arethusa/ar ... class.php3
Post Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:27 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
From what I can understand, Aurora’s 1945 fit was primarily due to her 1943 refit. At the end of Aerthusa’s 1944 repair/refit, was she very similar to Aurora’s fit with the exception quad 40s replacing the quad 2 pounders? Where can I find a resource for Arethusa's 1944 fit? Thanks, Rich
Post Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:38 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
If an argument can be made that Penelope had been repainted in Home Fleet Gray before leaving Scapa, then wouldn't a temporary scheme of white over the gray have been more appropriate than white and brown against the backdrop of the steep bare-sided cliffs of the Norwegian fiords? Just trying to rule out the possibility of the Home Fleet Gray scheme.
:wave_1:
Post Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:07 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
Assuming IF Penelope was wearing the Flotta Scheme, which contained brown and white (and light gray, light green, and black) up until being grounded, could the grays, greens, and black have been overpainted with more white leaving only the brown and white areas as pictured?
:wave_1:
Post Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:30 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
tjstoneman wrote:
PENELOPE's brown and white scheme is also explained in Ed Gordon H.M.S. "Pepperpot!": The "Penelope" in World War Two (Robert Hale Ltd: 15 Aug 1985). According to Alan Raven, she wore a multi coloured scheme BEFORE she grounded in April, thus TWO different types of camouflage within two months.



Having just read through the HMS Pepperpot book first chapter, which covers from being in the Med to getting back to the Clyde for repairs mid May 40, it seems to me that the Alan Raven quote needs to be interpreted carefully. After sailing from Scapa on 7th April, Penelope was employed in open waters against the larger German units before first going closer inshore on 10th April as part of the back up to the RN destroyers attacking the German units in Narvik at dawn and she was then involved with the aftermath of that and then being told to prepare to lead the next attack into Narvik which she said couldn't be ready until the 12th. Before that went any further on the 11th she was sent to follow up reports of German support ships and grounded at 1441. The damage was so extensive that she could barely stay afloat let alone move without assistance and in military terms all she could do was very limited AA in self defence until temporarily patched sufficiently to be towed back to UK. The Alan Raven bit about "lulls in the fighting etc" doesn't seem to match the actual situation at all - there was no period then where an air threat close inshore had developed and I doubt Penelope dropped her anchor until the passage to "Cripples Creek" had completed. It is also thrown into question by the three photos in the Pepperpot book clearly showing the port side with the pattern used in the WEM print plus two shots close to while afloat (and listing) and being repaired for tow. It seems to me any shot taken in drydock after this adds nothing new apart from maybe showing the starboard side and can only be the scheme depicted by WEM anyway.

The Pepperpot account is specific about the brown and white colours for the makeshift scheme and it being varied as the time progressed and the snow on the hills melted. It would be interesting to know more about the likely paint stocks carried onboard at the time - perhaps some of our heavyweight camouflage experts could comment - as a complete repaint of the ship would require considerable stocks well beyond that needed for touching up weather damage etc. Perhaps the raw materials to make up white and brown were already available onboard as they were used in other colours? Otherwise did they get paint from the Norwegians that were assisting with all the ships at Skjelfjord. If the answer is no to both, then you are left starting to think that whatever Penelope was wearing when she sailed from Scapa must have been quite similar to what is shown in the WEM print. But that seems so much of a one-off and very different from other depictions of the Scapa Flotta scheme that it is hard to accept - the scheme reported by Alan Raven seems more likely but doesn't fit his narrative.

It would be very interesting to clarify what scheme Penelope had on sailing from Scapa as that would be how she was on the afternoon of 10th April and at an important what-if point in naval history when a decision for Penelope to promptly reattack the german destroyers at Narvik could have considerably changed how the Norwegian campaign developed.
Post Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:04 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
Thanks again TJ.

OK, so it seems she was fitted with the turret top 20 mm's when she went to the Med, as the photos of her in overall Mountbatten Pink when she was with the Home Fleet don't have them.
Post Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:34 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
The drawing shows two motor boats at shelter deck level in the former position of the cylinder, which is absent. For 20mm on turrets, see the photo on this page: http://www.yourtotalevent.com/events/Wi ... ynolds.htm
Post Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:35 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
tjstoneman wrote:
There is a profile and deck plan showing GALATEA in 1941 in Alan Raven & John Roberts British Cruisers of World War Two (Arms & Armour Press, 1980). This shows, in addition to the details given by Paul:
The after shelter deck extended forward to end level with the former catapult base; the quadruple 2-pounder mountings were at the forward end of this extension. The shape of the superstructure underneath this extension is shown as identical to the parts in the PENELOPE kit.
Single 20mm Oerlikons placed as follows: on the after shelter deck just forward of the after funnel, well inboard; inboard of the shelters for the 4" gun crews (one deck level above the after shelter deck); on the platforms abreast the forefunnel previously occupied by quadruple 0.5" mountings and on new platforms at forward shelter deck level inboard of the aforementioned platforms for 0.5" mountings (one each side in each case - total of eight).

However, examination of other photos captioned as GALATEA show two single Oerlikons on "B" turret, and another pair on "Y" turret, and the quadruple 0.5" mountings still in place, with what look like two single Oerlikons inboard of the 4" gun crew shelters; aerials for RDF Type 284 (five-aerial fit) appears to be on the LA.DCT.


Thanks TJ! Very helpful. I suspected the 4th pair of 20 mm might replaced the Vickers 0.5's but could not make it out on the profile, and the removal of the latter had not been mentioned in the WW2 Cruisers site write up. But it makes sense.

None of the few pics of Galatea in 1941 I've found show any 20 mm on the 6-inch turrets though...

I can see the aft shelter deck extension on the profile, now you mention it. But what about the cylindrical base of the catapult? Is that retained or replaced?

Thanks again!

Paul
Post Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:01 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
drasticplastic wrote:
So what were the colors and camo pattern BEFORE grounding, or at the beginning of the Second Battle for Narvik? Want to paint her at that period.
:wave_1:


Overall Home Fleet Gray?? How boring!
:wave_1:
Post Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:48 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
Thanks a lot for your replies, so white is correct for Penelope´s camouflage after grounding, It would be interesting to see how she was camouflaged before grounding (light gray and dark gray) as mentioned by lan Raven.
Post Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:09 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
There is a profile and deck plan showing GALATEA in 1941 in Alan Raven & John Roberts British Cruisers of World War Two (Arms & Armour Press, 1980). This shows, in addition to the details given by Paul:
The after shelter deck extended forward to end level with the former catapult base; the quadruple 2-pounder mountings were at the forward end of this extension. The shape of the superstructure underneath this extension is shown as identical to the parts in the PENELOPE kit.
Single 20mm Oerlikons placed as follows: on the after shelter deck just forward of the after funnel, well inboard; inboard of the shelters for the 4" gun crews (one deck level above the after shelter deck); on the platforms abreast the forefunnel previously occupied by quadruple 0.5" mountings and on new platforms at forward shelter deck level inboard of the aforementioned platforms for 0.5" mountings (one each side in each case - total of eight).

However, examination of other photos captioned as GALATEA show two single Oerlikons on "B" turret, and another pair on "Y" turret, and the quadruple 0.5" mountings still in place, with what look like two single Oerlikons inboard of the 4" gun crew shelters; aerials for RDF Type 284 (five-aerial fit) appears to be on the LA.DCT.
Post Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:04 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
Quincy wrote:
With the upcoming Flyhawk HMS Penelope kit, how hard would it be to make her into the Galatea 1941 fit?


Hi Bob,

I've been looking at this - based on what I can find online. It will indeed take a bit of work and I remain uncertain of some things. The following is what I've found, based on photos and line drawings.

The line drawing available on the Blueprints website only shows her 1941 fit in profile. The plan view given does not match the profile and seems to be Penelope - which is unfortunate!

https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprin ... 281941%29/

According to the WW2 cruisers website: "Galatea lost her catapult in a refit between October 1940 and January 1941, when she received two quadruple 2 pdr and 8 single 20 mm, as well as radar 279."
https://www.world-war.co.uk/Arethusa/ar ... class.php3


Now for the changes I have found so far:

1) Both masts must be converted to tripods.Type 279 radar aerials to be installed (these are in the kit sprue A, or from PE).

2) The aft superstructure (forward of y-turret) will have to be scratched. Penelope had a single HACS director (as did Aurora) just above y-turret. Galatea (and early war Arethusa) had a two level structure with a searchlight platform on top (see the line drawing). The base of the mainmast was apparently resting against the forward end of the structure. Photos of Galatea don't show this structure clearly, but there are some of Arethusa that can give an idea of how it looked.

3) The aft shelter deck has to be extended forward so that the forward 2 4-inch mounts are almost abreast the aft 1/2 of the second funnel (as in Aurora) and the gun crew shelters installed between the 4-inch mounts with the mainmast tripod supports going through the roofs (again as in Aurora). These shelters are, fortunately, provided in the kit on sprue R.

4) There is no searchlight platform aft of the second funnel.

5) Omit the catapult. Because the plan view line drawing is not correct, it is impossible to tell for sure if the cylindrical base of the catapult was removed and a structure built as for Aurora, but it seems to me that this was the case judging from the profile. If so, this part is also in the kit on sprue R. It also has the platforms for the two quad pom poms that were installed in her refit (these are in the kit too!).

6) A challenge is the precise locations of the eight 20 mm mounts. Seems to me, from the profile, that there is one atop each 4-inch gun crew shelter, another pair just forward of the second funnel, and a third pair on either side just forward of the first funnel. The 4th pair = ????

That's all I can figure at this point. Hope it helps. If anyone has any further or better info please share if you can. Thanks!

(Would be nice if Flyhawk would say if they plan a Galatea and, if they do, save all this trouble!)

Paul
Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:34 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
So what were the colors and camo pattern BEFORE grounding, or at the beginning of the First Battle for Narvik? Want to paint her at that period.
:wave_1:
Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:56 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
PENELOPE's brown and white scheme is also explained in Ed Gordon H.M.S. "Pepperpot!": The "Penelope" in World War Two (Robert Hale Ltd: 15 Aug 1985). According to Alan Raven, she wore a multi coloured scheme BEFORE she grounded in April, thus TWO different types of camouflage within two months.
Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:46 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all Arethusa class fans  Reply with quote
According to the White Ensign Models instructions for their Penelope kit, the white and brown scheme was locally applied while she was undergoing repairs after grounding during the Norwegian Campaign. The paint was constantly adjusted as the snow in the surrounding fjord melted, resulting in less white and more brown the longer she was stranded.

From Naval-History.net:

April: 11th Detached with HM Destroyers ESKIMO and KIMBERLEY for attack on transports reported at Bodo.

Grounded whilst attempting to enter fjord at Fleinvaer.

Holed forward and boiler room flooded.

Towed to Skelsfjord by HM Destroyer ESKIMO.

14th Remained in Norwegian waters to supplement available defence against continuing air attacks, later moved to Harstad.

May: Deployment at Harstad in continuation.

11th Passage to UK under tow with HM Cruisers COVENTRY and CALCUTTA

ISIS, ZULU, CAMPBELL and WITCH.

18th Taken in hand for repair at Greenock.
Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:39 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group