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Topic review - Calling all RN County class fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Unfortunately Jack, it appears you have some scratch building to do.
Your earlier question concerning B gundeck, it would have been timber decking.


Attachments:
KENT, 32.jpg
KENT, 32.jpg [ 201.82 KiB | Viewed 85 times ]
KENT, alledged around 35.jpg
KENT, alledged around 35.jpg [ 186.07 KiB | Viewed 85 times ]
KENT, early 30`s.jpg
KENT, early 30`s.jpg [ 369.84 KiB | Viewed 85 times ]
Post Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:49 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
And here from the back of the bridge. In both pics I'm pointing at the area with my scraper.

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IMG_4426.JPG
IMG_4426.JPG [ 201.61 KiB | Viewed 101 times ]
Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:26 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Attachment:
IMG_4421.JPG
IMG_4421.JPG [ 213.46 KiB | Viewed 101 times ]


Thankyou Maarten and tj for the replies. I think that may be a plan of Kent post-reconstruction? It seems to have the twin 4" AAs.

I will try to link a couple of pics to show you the area I may have to modify. TJ I think it's the floorplan of the lower bridge, as per your plans. Interesting that the plan of Kent extends back in contrast to the Aussie profiles.
Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:24 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
KENT's "as fitted" plans dated 1928 show the structure on the Lower Bridge* is not a straightforward rectangle (but with no "see-through" gap when viewed from abeam). The attached scans (poor copy of the original plans) show the plan and (in red on the second) my interpretation of the sides of the structure.
* The plans label the decks as "Upper Deck" (ie the one running full length from bow to stern), "Superstructure Deck", "Lower Bridge", Upper Bridge" and "ADO's Platform".


Attachments:
Kent LowerBridge1.jpg
Kent LowerBridge1.jpg [ 18.84 KiB | Viewed 163 times ]
Kent LowerBridge1a.jpg
Kent LowerBridge1a.jpg [ 24.57 KiB | Viewed 163 times ]
Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:36 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Jack G wrote:

(...)

My question is, did the British ships have a different bridge plan? If they are the same as the Australian ships in 1927-32, then I have some scratchbuilding to do.

Also, can someone tell me the correct names for all the deck levels, it might make questions easier.

Thankyou,

J

Hi Jack,

I'm not really sure about what you mean, but this plan of "Kent - as fitted" is maybe helpful, although at low resolution. You may indicate by adding arrows or so what your precise question is.
Attachment:
Kent Decks and superstructure.jpg
Kent Decks and superstructure.jpg [ 39.03 KiB | Viewed 171 times ]
Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:31 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Three further kit questions:

Does anyone have a wood deck out for the kit yet?

Could you use the Infini-model Exeter brass pole masts on it to capture a County as built?

https://www.bnamodelworld.com/aftermark ... 524e71ee40

And, the wooden deck around B turret, was this actually wood as built, or should it be done in dark grey?
Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:47 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Brett thankyou very much for those excellent pics from Oct17!

My model is now painted on the hull and what superstructure there is, looking resplendent in the China Station white with 507B upper. A very cool paint scheme, pun intended (the white hull to keep things cooler in tropical waters?) If anything, the only disappointment is my red hull came out a little darker once sealer coat on, could have been using a darker primer, oh well.

I have a further question now it's time to get into the superstructure and the scratchbuilding starts.

The back of the bridge structure: thank you for the pics of the rear of Australia's bridge. I am looking at the "second floor" - on the plan linked above it's the one with the words 'telescope' and 'FW Tank' on it. On the Australian ships it appears a single rectangular structure, viewed from the rear it is the same width as the level below it, and the level above.

On the trumpeter kit, it is split into two structures, with the rear one wider than the floor below, when viewed from behind. There is a 'gap' between the structures where you can see through if viewing from amidships. I can see this on the builder's model of HMS Cumberland, and I reckon on one amidships pic of Cornwall. It's an area that is hidden away in many pics.

My question is, did the British ships have a different bridge plan? If they are the same as the Australian ships in 1927-32, then I have some scratchbuilding to do.

Also, can someone tell me the correct names for all the deck levels, it might make questions easier.

Thankyou,

J
Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:37 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Very interesting research you have done, Dick!
Post Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:59 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
In case it is of interest to anyone modeling the new kit of HMS Kent in 1940, she entered the Suez Canal 14 Aug 1940 on her way north to join the Mediterranean Fleet in overall light grey (507C) with clean wooden decks. Immediately on reaching the Mediterranean she painted over the light grey base a pattern of dark grey camouflage panels, some of which (see below) had thin medium grey edging strips.
Attachment:
Kent 22 Aug 1940.jpg
Kent 22 Aug 1940.jpg [ 148.08 KiB | Viewed 521 times ]

This pattern was carried onto the decks but it looks (from film) like a stain rather than paint may have been used on the deck as there is not the same depth of colour (the caulking between the wooden planks still shows through once whatever is brushed on has settled). Note the chalk marks:
Attachment:
Kent 16 Aug 1940  pattern on deck.jpg
Kent 16 Aug 1940 pattern on deck.jpg [ 129.84 KiB | Viewed 521 times ]

(The film MGH 2739 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... 1060011105 is not available online but you can click the “Show more” button under the “Full description” heading to see where the dates for the above stills come from.)

Kent was therefore in this scheme when torpedoed on 17 September 1940. Confirmation of this comes in a photo of her, down by the stern, being assisted back into Alexandria by tugs on 19th September:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ ... -162249759

It was originally possible to copy a better quality version of this photo. In that version it is just possible to discern the thin medium grey strip along both edges of the dark grey camouflage panel on the starboard quarter and to the rear edge of the centre hull panel. Forward of that it gets a bit fuzzy. Also I cannot make out whether this feather edging also existed at that time anywhere above the hull ie on the camouflage panels on the superstructure, turrets and funnels. My current interpretation is that it did not ie only hull (and deck given the chalk lines) camouflage panels had the medium grey edging. (Maybe someone has other images?)

She left the Mediterranean for full repairs in the UK in this scheme but during a stopover at Simonstown the pattern was repainted but with some adjustments. She arrived back in the UK as repainted at Simonstown:
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205137112
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205136932
Post Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:48 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Brett:

Thanks so much for sharing those! I always wondered if the scheme with the small warship profile superimposed on the port side of Norfolk was also on the starboard side. Now it appears that at least for part of her career, there were vastly different schemes on each side!

And here is the link for anyone interested: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... 1060020157

Thanks!

Mike E.
Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:59 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Mike, a good find and very relevant discrepancies noted for those planning to build Kent.

On the subject of film reels, this extra find may interest yourself and others.
Captioned under `Operation Menace` containing 3 reels.
Third reel, unfortunately not correct for that operation, shows Norfolk taken from HMAS Australia in Aug 40 whilst both cruisers were patrolling around Bear Is for blockade runners.
It shows merchantman Ericus bailed up for inspection, I cannot find any recorded information on that Finnish ship.
At that time she wore 2 completely different schemes port and strbd, port side was the complex scheme worn 2nd qtr of 40, and her strbd pattern was something similar to that recorded in WSP Vol 1 for early 41 but a new addition to her collection.


Attachments:
NORFOLK, 08.40.jpg
NORFOLK, 08.40.jpg [ 41.5 KiB | Viewed 710 times ]
NORFOLK, 08.40intercept Ericus.jpg
NORFOLK, 08.40intercept Ericus.jpg [ 41.95 KiB | Viewed 710 times ]
NORFOLK, 08.40 .jpg
NORFOLK, 08.40 .jpg [ 53.35 KiB | Viewed 710 times ]
Post Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:46 pm
  Post subject:  HMS Kent  Reply with quote
All:

Going through the IWM website last night, I came across a film of HMS Kent taken in Far Eastern waters in July and August 1939. It shows some really interesting details regarding Kent which I will discuss momentarily. I sent the link to our Japanese friend Mitsuaki Kubota who added the link and screen grabs to his review thread on Twitter of the 1/700 Aoshima HMS Kent kit. A few points:

Here is a screen grab of one of the 4" HA guns amidships, which shows that the steel deck around it had a grid pattern on it (similar to the grid pattern often used on the non-slip surfaces on the forecastle decks of British cruisers). Would anyone know whether non-slip grid patterns were applied to steel decks elsewhere than on the forecastle deck on other British ships? Note also the slightly raised wooden deck at the top of the screen which is probably the platform for the aft 4" HA gun:

https://twitter.com/fake_johnbull/statu ... 13792?s=20

And here on the left is a screen grab of the forecastle deck which shows the non-slip grid pattern on the steel deck forward of the breakwater (the Aoshima kit erroneously depicts the forecastle deck forward of the breakwater as covered by wooden planks--as it was on other ships of the class). The screen grab on the right shows the bridge deck, and just beyond the wind deflector fence, you can see a few wooden planks on the deck atop the forward deckhouse and around B turret. It shows that this deck was planked, whereas the kit shows it as a smooth steel deck.

https://twitter.com/EnjakuHaruzono/stat ... 03041?s=20

I should add that I guess it is always possible that semtex was applied over the steel deck amidships as well as over the forward deckhouse deck around B turret during her early war repairs, so it is possible that the kit is not incorrect in that respect. Thoughts?

If you would like to review the entire film, it can be found here:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... 1060009592

Most noteworthy for me were the segments showing the forecastle deck and anchor tackle gear at 10:05-11:00 and 15:27-15:42, and a panoramic view of the bridge at 16:00-16:21.

Finally, you can find Mitsuaki Kubota's wonderful Twitter review of the Aoshima HMS Kent kit here:

https://twitter.com/fake_johnbull/statu ... 90240?s=20

In short, a great kit, but with some unnecessary errors which will be a pain to correct (the wood-planked forecastle deck which should be steel with a grid pattern, and the deck atop the forward deckhouse which should be planked--but is smooth).

Enjoy!

Best,

Mike E.
Post Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:50 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Excellent observation Jack, a point missed by many.
Whilst the layout of the `as built`bridges of the Kents` was standard this feature appears not to be the case.
The cropped RAN plan is `as built` Of all the Kent subclass Australia and Canberra were unique with the extended signal deck wings.
These extensions on both cruisers were modified in late 34 and reduced inboard, it can be noted in the previous images I posted.

It appears that the DCT platform Mod was done first, and the wing mod was performed shortly after.
This can be noted in the image showing the extended wing of Aust and Canberra in background, note her enlarged lobes on the DCT have been fitted but the wings are still the extended `as built`
The cropped images of Australia traversing the Panama canal in Mar 35 show the enlarged lobes of the DCT platform and the reduction inboard of the signal deck wings.
The Federation star appears to have been fitted in the early 30`s, it was not present before then.


Attachments:
AUSTRALIA traversing Panama, 03.35.jpg
AUSTRALIA traversing Panama, 03.35.jpg [ 318 KiB | Viewed 2153 times ]
AUSTRALIA, early 30`s.jpg
AUSTRALIA, early 30`s.jpg [ 362.04 KiB | Viewed 2153 times ]
CANBERRA 28.jpg
CANBERRA 28.jpg [ 273.27 KiB | Viewed 2153 times ]
BERWICK, 07.27.jpg
BERWICK, 07.27.jpg [ 78.53 KiB | Viewed 2153 times ]
CORNWALL, 08.28.jpg
CORNWALL, 08.28.jpg [ 99.39 KiB | Viewed 2153 times ]
Post Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:59 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Brett and Maarten, thank you once more.

I do have the R&R "British Cruisers of WW2" with Canberra fitting out, it's about the best resource I have in print. Thank you for those close-ups of Australia's bridge (the star is the main star on our flag, one spike for each state/colony at Federation IIRC).

As my first 1/350 County will be a British one, am I right to assume their bridge structure will mirror the pic of Australia as fitted Brett? Fantastic pic of rear view of superstructure btw.

In the plan Brett posted, the level of the bridge with the signalling projector (1st floor for want of a better word) seems to have 'wings' reaching the side of the ship - I assume to aid in docking, giving the officers a better view aft. All the pics of the UK ships, and their builders models, seem not to have such large 'wings'... hmmmm.
Post Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:00 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Some more very useful pictures of HMAS Canberra under construction at Clydebank in 'RN Cruisers of WW2' by Roberts/Raven.
Post Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:09 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
The bridge layout and design was standard for all the Kent sub class `as built`
Each ship had alterations made to their bridge superstructures prior to and into the war.
The RAN Kents had several alterations made after 1934, the main mod was the enlargement of the DCT platform with the larger outboard lobes.
Australia`s bridge had major mods done in 1939, Canberra in early 42.


Attachments:
RAN KENT, As built.jpg
RAN KENT, As built.jpg [ 321.06 KiB | Viewed 2639 times ]
As built.jpg
As built.jpg [ 105.05 KiB | Viewed 2639 times ]
approx 35.jpg
approx 35.jpg [ 345.15 KiB | Viewed 2639 times ]
approx 37.jpg
approx 37.jpg [ 174.5 KiB | Viewed 2639 times ]
Post Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:43 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Jack G wrote:
Some great information in this thread, I've enjoyed all the info and pictures of Australia's camo pattern.

Does anyone have any deck plans for the bridge levels of the British Kent sub-group as originally constructed? Were they all the same? I think I can see differences on the bridge of the Aussie ships as fitted out.

Does anyone have any plans of the after-bridge? It's the bit that seems to be suspended in the air on struts. I can only assume they were trying to save weight.

The Australian Countys had a different after superstructure layout too, I think further aft and further aft mainmast? As well as taller funnels...

Do these plans answer your questions perhaps? I haven't ordered them myself nor can I account for their accuracy.
https://www.navyhistory.org.au/shop/hmas-kent-class-cruiser-1928-to-1954/
Post Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:43 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Some great information in this thread, I've enjoyed all the info and pictures of Australia's camo pattern.

Does anyone have any deck plans for the bridge levels of the British Kent sub-group as originally constructed? Were they all the same? I think I can see differences on the bridge of the Aussie ships as fitted out.

Does anyone have any plans of the after-bridge? It's the bit that seems to be suspended in the air on struts. I can only assume they were trying to save weight.

The Australian Countys had a different after superstructure layout too, I think further aft and further aft mainmast? As well as taller funnels...
Post Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:02 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Quite a bit of activity here and SN concerning Norfolk`s port scheme.
Richelieu wears the scheme applied in Oct 43, therefore the image posted by Maxim is after that date and is probably correct for Dec 43, the other images within the films are highly likely the same period also.
Norfolk was no different to many other ships, her schemes were changed quite a number of times.
As per Mike`s comment, evidently her port side had received some changes to the sketch in WSP Vol 2. around Oct/Nov.
We now have reference to a new scheme applied to her port side in Dec 43, pretty simple, strbd side (without study) appears unchanged for that period.
I have skimmed through the film clips without close study, check the other ships, the destroyer broadside may give a good indication of timeframe.

Mr Raven may have had a reference image from a private collection which others do not have, and no images exist within the P.D. there is nothing unusual about that, I have images of ships from private collections which have no official recordings of schemes.
The comment directed at M Wright on SN was probably uncalled for irrespective of what may be true/or untrue.
Post Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:48 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all RN County class fans  Reply with quote
Here is another photo of Norfolk's port side dated December 1943:
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205153329

It confirms the pattern shown on the other two port side photos from the film. I have not found any photos confirming Raven's interpretation.
Post Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:21 am

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