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Topic review - Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Hi all,

I have been quiet for a while on the topic of the Exeter, as in the meantime also the Trumpeter Cornwall has appeared onto my desk. One item of the Cornwall made me thinking about the Exeter: the 8" turrets.

We know the Exeter and York basically had the same Mk II turrets as the Norfolk and the Dorsetshire. The other Counties, the Kent and London classes, had the Mk I turret and so has the Cornwall kit.

Well, the Cornwall turrets are clearly broader in plan view than the Exeter turrets, while the barbettes have the same diameter. So the conclusion is inevitable: the Exeter turrets are too narrow! Not much, but enough to be visible, about 1mm at the widest point, over the barbette. But the front and rear faces seem to be exactly right, so the turrets are too slender and too straight in top view.

Well, I attempted to improve one of the Exeter turrets with strips of .020" thickness, and filing/sanding away towards front and rear. I think it works! I had to snap off the rangefinder hoods though, and cemented these on again afterwards.

Look for yourself: L to R the old Exeter turret, the improved one and the Cornwall turret. Note the Mk II turrets are also longer than the Mk I, about 2ft I estimate.
Attachment:
Exeter kit - Exeter modified - Cornwall kit.jpg
Exeter kit - Exeter modified - Cornwall kit.jpg [ 392.66 KiB | Viewed 113 times ]
Post Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:26 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Agreed. Thanks Graham, that's good stuff.
Post Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:25 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Thank you very much, Graham! Valuable info.
Post Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:55 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Mainly from two books from Air Britain, one is The Squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm - I used the second edition but the third is recently available and it does acknowledge the use of N9+ on the Walrus. The other is Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939-45 which gives the known history of every single airframe operated by the Navy. They were mainly credited to the late Ray Sturtivant. A second edition of this is being worked on currently.

The site has "corrected" my text: the N in the code should be positioned centrally above the other two digits.
Post Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:07 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Graham Boak wrote:
At the time of the River Plate action, Exeter's Walrus (Walri?) belonged to 718 Sq, whose unit code was C9. Two aircraft said to have been jettisoned before the battle were K8341 and K8343, but the latter was later recorded elsewhere. Another Exeter example was K8557 which is not recorded after 11.39, it being acknowledged as lost in 6.40. (i.e acknowledged in June 1940 as being lost at some unknown time before that.) However the individual codes do not seem to have been recorded.

PS I wrote too soon. There is a photo in Stuart Lloyd's Fleet Air Arm Camouflage and Markings (Dalrymple and Verdun 2008) showing K8560 being manoeuvred on Exeter's catapult, summer 1939, and she is coded on the lower fin as shown
N
9 F
K8560 was recorded on Exeter until 12.39, and later with another unit. N9 was allocated to the 8th Cruiser squadron 1939/40 but was considered "not used?" Clearly it was.

Super info, Graham! Where did you find this all??
Post Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:59 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
At the time of the River Plate action, Exeter's Walrus (Walri?) belonged to 718 Sq, whose unit code was C9. Two aircraft said to have been jettisoned before the battle were K8341 and K8343, but the latter was later recorded elsewhere. Another Exeter example was K8557 which is not recorded after 11.39, it being acknowledged as lost in 6.40. (i.e acknowledged in June 1940 as being lost at some unknown time before that.) However the individual codes do not seem to have been recorded.

PS I wrote too soon. There is a photo in Stuart Lloyd's Fleet Air Arm Camouflage and Markings (Dalrymple and Verdun 2008) showing K8560 being manoeuvred on Exeter's catapult, summer 1939, and she is coded on the lower fin as shown
N
9 F
K8560 was recorded on Exeter until 12.39, and later with another unit. N9 was allocated to the 8th Cruiser squadron 1939/40 but was considered "not used?" Clearly it was.
Post Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:49 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
dhogue wrote:
At the River Plate, the Exeter's Walruses were indeed still in the pre war silver grey paint scheme (as was the Exeter for that matter) but had the large numbers on the nose painted out and replaced by the two letter/one number code on the side of the fin. The Ajax's Seafox was in cammo though.

Hi David,

Thanks for your comment! Very useful. Do you happen to have any photos showing these fin numbers? Or what these codes were at that time? On the pics of your model they are't really visible.

Btw, your model of the ISW Exeter is a very valuable reference for me: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/ca/hms/Exeter-350-dh/index.htm
Highly recommended for anyone trying his hand on the Trumpeter kit! :thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:15 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
At the River Plate, the Exeter's Walruses were indeed still in the pre war silver grey paint scheme (as was the Exeter for that matter) but had the large numbers on the nose painted out and replaced by the two letter/one number code on the side of the fin. The Ajax's Seafox was in cammo though.
Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:45 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Excellent reference, thankyou.
An interesting 1940 instructional film on catapult launch, some very good reference here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dmNyts7f1w
Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:33 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Don't know, downloaded it without saving the source... :wave_1:
Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:28 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
EJFoeth wrote:
"Your message contains too few characters."

Hey EJ, thanks!

This looks even more the particular variant that was used on Exeter! Where the **** did you find that one? I have several other drawing, but not of this type!

Thanks again.
Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:58 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
"Your message contains too few characters."


Attachments:
RN_catapult.jpg
RN_catapult.jpg [ 106.07 KiB | Viewed 485 times ]
Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:30 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Speaking about the Walruses: I started to look more closely into the catapults they must sit on. To my disappointment Trumpeter didn't quite succeed in making something that could pass. The contraption really should look something like this:
Attachment:
download.jpg
download.jpg [ 9.51 KiB | Viewed 493 times ]
or this:
Attachment:
DSCN1057s.jpg
DSCN1057s.jpg [ 60.36 KiB | Viewed 493 times ]


ref https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1931/1931%20-%200186.PDF

Further reference on the catapults on HMS Exeter to be found here:
https://www.seawings.co.uk/images/Catapult%20References/Catapult%20Articles%20pdf%20file/Catapult%20onboard%20HMS%20Exeter%20-%20%20FLIGHT%20mag%20article%2017th%20June%20%201932.pdf

Trumpy's cats do not seem quite right, but they are the correct length of 47 ft, the early version. I will think whether I will start modifying these, or scratch built new ones myself.

Wouldn't it be time for a correct PE or 3D printed version of the MacTaggart Scott catapults in 1/350 and 1/700 scale? Both the long and the short versions please! Someone from the PE/3D producers listening to this? I have more documentation gathered!
Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:30 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Maarten Schönfeld wrote:
FRAMSailor wrote:
Maarteen, interesting photo of Exeter with the white "EX." Can't make out if the aircraft is a Fairey IIIF or a Hawker Osprey but, either way, prewar.

Speaking of aircraft: Exeter had York's Walrus at River Plate, but was it camouflaged or silver?

I believe the embarked Walruses were still in silver paint by that time, and all photo's I've seen of Walrusses on HMS Exeter support that. There was simply not the opportunity to exchange them for camouflaged examples. It's just a peculiarity like the bronze eagle still being on the stern of DKM Graf Spee at that time, although the order had been given to remove all these peacetime markings.
The aircraft on the previous picture seem to be Seafoxes to me, as Ospreys had a longer engine compartment.
Attachment:
Supermarine_Walrus_abaord_HMS_Exeter_(68)_in_the_1930s reduced 1200.jpg


I have had that question about the HMS Exeter´s Walruses for a long time, I will go for the silver paint at River Plate, can´t confirm, nor deny, and I like the looks!

Marco
Post Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:17 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Late 39 to approx. mid 40 silver.
Perhaps there is a site listing the movements of RAF naval co-operation aircraft similar to `ADF Serials?
The aircraft were regularly rotated depending on other operational requirements, damage sustained or maintenance due.
Oddly enough silver examples of Walrus appear to still have been in service late 41, perhaps because they were behind the times in the East Indies and China stations.
The portside image of Exeter which I believe is early 42 in Colombo shows she has an embarked silver, but she also embarked rotated aircraft late 41 which were in camouflage.


Attachments:
EXETER, early 42.jpg
EXETER, early 42.jpg [ 134.85 KiB | Viewed 668 times ]
exeter catapult 41.jpg
exeter catapult 41.jpg [ 94.84 KiB | Viewed 668 times ]
Post Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:41 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Maarten's aerial photo is one held by the RAF Museum - for which gettyimages seems to be able to charge at least £150! Copy online at https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/ne ... /159136974. gettyimages' caption says it was taken in 1933, well before the Seafox first flew. The caption says the aircraft are Ospreys, which she did carry in 1933. The Seafox's nose was rectangular in side view - the nearest aircraft has a pointed nose like an Osprey.
Post Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:13 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
FRAMSailor wrote:
Maarteen, interesting photo of Exeter with the white "EX." Can't make out if the aircraft is a Fairey IIIF or a Hawker Osprey but, either way, prewar.

Speaking of aircraft: Exeter had York's Walrus at River Plate, but was it camouflaged or silver?

I believe the embarked Walruses were still in silver paint by that time, and all photo's I've seen of Walrusses on HMS Exeter support that. There was simply not the opportunity to exchange them for camouflaged examples. It's just a peculiarity like the bronze eagle still being on the stern of DKM Graf Spee at that time, although the order had been given to remove all these peacetime markings.
The aircraft on the previous picture seem to be Seafoxes to me, as Ospreys had a longer engine compartment.
Attachment:
Supermarine_Walrus_abaord_HMS_Exeter_(68)_in_the_1930s reduced 1200.jpg
Supermarine_Walrus_abaord_HMS_Exeter_(68)_in_the_1930s reduced 1200.jpg [ 374.7 KiB | Viewed 714 times ]
Post Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:45 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Maarteen, interesting photo of Exeter with the white "EX." Can't make out if the aircraft is a Fairey IIIF or a Hawker Osprey but, either way, prewar.

Speaking of aircraft: Exeter had York's Walrus at River Plate, but was it camouflaged or silver?
Post Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:00 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
FRAMSailor wrote:
Was there ever a general consensus on if the "EX" on the tops of the turrets were black or red?

I'm afraid not yet! The red version seems to have emerged from Profile Morskie, but I have no idea on what evidence this was based. As far as I'm concerned David Hogues version in black looks more credible although less colourful to me.

And to add to the confusion: here we have a picture with the "EX" only on the rear turret, and in white apparently!
Attachment:
gettyimages-159136974-1200wide.jpg
gettyimages-159136974-1200wide.jpg [ 242.01 KiB | Viewed 861 times ]
Post Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:58 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Was there ever a general consensus on if the "EX" on the tops of the turrets were black or red?
Post Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:18 am

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