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Topic review - Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fans
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maxim
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fa  Reply with quote
My sentence about McGiffin was wrong. I had wanted to clarify it, but overlooked that I had made it worse. This thread is about the cruisers of the Sino French War of 1884/85 - not about the Sino Japanese War of 1894/95.

Here another cruiser, which fought in the Battle of Fuzhou:

the French armoured cruiser (armoured corvette) Triomphante built using the 1/700 kit of Doggy Industries:

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with the Chinese cruiser (corvette) Yangwu

Triomphante, 1/700
Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:29 pm
maurice de saxe
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fa  Reply with quote
Timmy C wrote:
maxim wrote:
I do not know China's Struggle for Naval Development.


Pricey, but to be expected of a university press book: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php ... 0674863668


Try bookfinder.com. Copies available used for less then $5 depending on condition

Maurice
Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:22 pm
maurice de saxe
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fa  Reply with quote
Maxim

McGiffin definitely was aboard Chen Yuen as the ship's executive officer at the Battle of the Yalu River in 1894 and was seriously injured there. The most recent account of his actions then is in a sidebar in the chapter on Chen Yuen (by Qing Feng) in The World of the Battleship (2018) edited by Bruce Taylor.
Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:19 pm
Timmy C
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fa  Reply with quote
maxim wrote:
I do not know China's Struggle for Naval Development.


Pricey, but to be expected of a university press book: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php ... 0674863668
Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:23 pm
maxim
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fa  Reply with quote
But Philo McGiffin on board of Chen Yuen was 10 years after the Sino French War and it could be different in the different fleets. According to Sino-French Naval War 1884-1885 by Piotr Olender all known commanders of Chinese ships in the Battle of Fuchow had Chinese names. Olender mentions that foreign officers served in the Chinese navy (mainly British, American, and German mercenaries). I found no evidence for foreign officers in service during that battle - but I have not read very carefully.

I wish there would be better English literature. Sino-French Naval War 1884-1885 is better than Chinese Steam Navy and Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships. But compared to photos, there are multiple errors. The best source I know for technical data and drawings is 中国军舰图志(1855-1911) (Chinese Warship Map 1855-1911) - but I can read it only using translating software. I do not know China's Struggle for Naval Development.

/edit: corrected first sentence
Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:02 pm
maurice de saxe
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fa  Reply with quote
Most if not all were Chinese by this time but there were still some Westerners with prominent roles, most notably the improbably named Philo McGiffin, who was executive officer of the battleship Chen Yuen at the Battle of the Yalu River in 1894. The best one-stop English-language source for the topic is still probably John L. Rawlinson's China's Struggle for Naval Development. Although published in 1967, it remains very useful and rather more helpful than the more recent (rather patchy) work from Richard N.J. Wright: The Chinese Steam Navy.

Maurice
Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:18 am
wefalck
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fa  Reply with quote
I know next to nothing about the Chinese Navy of the time: were the ships commanded by Chinese officers or by Westeners ?
Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:20 am
maxim
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fa  Reply with quote
Another Chinese cruiser, which fought in the Battle of Fuzhou: Fupo (Fu Po) built in 1870-71 and survived the battle to serve at least to 1909. The model was built in 1/700 using the Oceanmoon kit.

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with the cruiser (corvette) Yangwu and the torpedo cruiser Guangyi

Fupo (1/700)
Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:11 am
maxim
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fa  Reply with quote
Thank you for the complete list of Chinese ships of Battle of Fuzhou, including also the gunboats and transports!

The list of French ships, which fought in that battle, is not that complete:

Armoured cruiser Triomphante: Doggy Industries (MDW004)
Cruiser Duguay-Trouin: -
Cruiser Villars: -
Cruiser D'Estaing: Doggy Industries (MDW022, Lapérouse kit, probably some changes required)
Cruiser Volta: Doggy Industries (MDW021)
Gunboat Lynx: -
Gunboat Aspic: -
Gunboat Vipère: -
Torpedo Boat No. 45: -
Torpedo Boat No. 46: -
Post Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:41 am
maurice de saxe
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fa  Reply with quote
Ocean Moon offers the entire Chinese squadron present at the battle:
Yang-wu (3307)
Yung-pao (3308)
Chen-hang (3308)
Fu-po (3306)
Fei-yun (3306)
Chi-an (3306)
Chen-wei (3304)
Fu-hsing (3301)
Fu-sheng (3302)
Chien-sheng (3302)
Yi-hsin (3305)

Some will need more work than others but they are a great start
Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:01 pm
maxim
  Post subject:  Calling all cruisers of the Sino French War (1884/85) fans  Reply with quote
There is an increasing number of 1/700 kit of cruisers, which served in the Sino French War (1884/85).

Oceanmoon has most Chinese cruisers:

Yang Wu (Yangwu)
Fu Po (Fupo), also sisterships An Lan, Fei Yun, and Chi An served in that war.
Kai Chi (Kaichi)
Wan Nien Ching
(Kuang Chia) can be converted into earlier ships of the Wei Yuen class, which served in the Sino French War.


Doggy Industries offers several French cruisers:

Bayard
Triomphante
Lapérouse
Volta

Today, on 23rd of August 1884, is the 135th anniversary of the Battle of Fuzhou, the first major battle in the Sino French War. In this battle the Chinese flagship was the cruiser Yangwu.

Here a model built using the Oceanmoon kit:

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(with the sloop USS Kearsarge and the corvette Fujiyama)

See also:
Chinese cruiser Yangwu (1/700, Oceanmoon)
Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:21 pm

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