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Topic review - Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
My first thought also was the "clear view screen" window:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_view_screen

These were developed in the mid 1930s so they could have been installed. But they were normally on the forward facing windows on an enclosed bridge. If they had been installed the glass around them would also reflect light about the same.

Some ships had windows that hinged up and latched to the overhead. Bus in the US Navy only every other window hinged up and the windows between were fixed.

Open bridges with no protection from the elements were common before and during WWII. Sometimes they had a few glass or plastic windows on the forward facing part, but I can tell you from experience that these don't help much in foul weather!

The side "gallery" as someone called it is an open bridge used during docking, underway replenishment, personnel high lining, or any other operation requiring close maneuvering.

Of all the guesses I have seen I think reflections from air ports (port holes) on the inner bulkhead is the most likely.

Phil
Post Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:50 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
I know that the answer has/appears to have been arrived at but for what my small amount of change is worth: I would not disagree with Brett Morrow. If the background beyond the photographer is a "big sky" one and the scuttles in the screen of the superstructure inside the "gallery" (possibly part of the flag deck) were closed, the glass in them could well reflect back lighter than the surface they are in. This can be seen in the effect of some of the scuttles in the hull: one or two appear black (open), the other appear lighter (closed).

EJ Foeth questions another possibility; which is some form of sighting equipment in the location: maybe but I believe that unlikely.
The only alternative that I would have offered is that they are reflections of what were known as Kent Clear View screen windows in windows that were later removed; which EXETER had at the forward end of the bridge but then the square pane of the remainder of the glass would also have reflected.

I am afraid that I can't find any good pictures of EXETER in any of my references that would be of help: plenty of her sister-ship (different bridge superstructure). Whatever, the as fitted drawings would be able to confirm or perhaps the ship has an association website that might be of help.
Post Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:21 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
And the answer, even without looking further into the u/w photos, is; yes there are scuttles in that inner bulkhead.

They actually can be seen in an enhanced crop of the photo Marco posted above. :thumbs_up_1:


Attachments:
Inner scuttles Exeter bridge.jpg
Inner scuttles Exeter bridge.jpg [ 51.38 KiB | Viewed 106 times ]
Post Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:13 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Brett Morrow wrote:
Was there an inner bulkhead with scuttles behind the open frames?
This perception of glassed windows is also reproduced in many incorrect renditions of Leander class cruisers. The RAN modified Leander class also had open frames with an open avenue between the inner wall and outer skin, I expect Exeter may have been the same.
Even though these scuttles were in shadow, at just the right angle they would reflect light, I have seen stranger things.
Could this not be reflections of those inner scuttles? as per the attachment of Leander.

Re my now underlined above Brett; the answer is (partly) yes, there is a walkway / companionway of what looks to be about 3ft / 1mt wide between those outer 'windows' and the inner bulkhead on Exeter.

However, I'll have to have a play with some of my u/w photos to see if I can bring out some better detail on that inner bulkhead, as that side (port) of the wreck was facing upwards (as she lay on her stbd side), thus silt had built up on it, so nothing readily discernible at first glance to tell if there are scuttles along there on not. Personally I would assume so, but that's just a wild WAG.
Post Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:58 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
I had the same thought. Plus, I do not know what type of sighting equipment on a lower bridge level would 'fit' the height/position of these three spots.
Post Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:07 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Was there an inner bulkhead with scuttles behind the open frames ?
This perception of glassed windows is also reproduced in many incorrect renditions of Leander class cruisers. The RAN modified Leander class also had open frames with an open avenue between the inner wall and outer skin, I expect Exeter may have been the same.
Even though these scuttles were in shadow, at just the right angle they would reflect light, I have seen stranger things.
Could this not be reflections of those inner scuttles? as per the attachment of Leander.


Attachments:
LEANDER INNER WHEELHOUSE WALL.jpg
LEANDER INNER WHEELHOUSE WALL.jpg [ 72.63 KiB | Viewed 151 times ]
Post Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:51 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Marco wrote:
I noticed somebody adding simulated glass to the bridge windows of an HMS Exeter scale model (another forum). Somebody else remarked that those windows did not have any, and I nodded, of course, I "knew". But now, I am in doubt, after looking at this picture, I see reflection from "glass" ?

I guess these windows had glass that could be opened (to the inside?) or am I wrong? Would be a nice detail to put some sheets of "glass" to some of the windows.

Marco

Hi Marco,

If there was glass in the windows on the sides of the upper bridge, then I have never seen it shown in any historical photos (or if there was, then the windows are always shown open), nor was any glass there on the wreck. Nor did we find any evidence of sliding panels that could have slide open / closed either. (However there were of course panes of glass around the open bridge, although on the wreck many had fallen out.)

The arrows in the collage below point to the relevant areas photographed on the wreck (note; as the u/w photos were taken with a 'fish-eye' lens there is some curvature in the u/w image on right.)

Image #2 is just a close up of the bridge in 1941.

However, and this is a general question to anyone, in image #3 also taken in 1941, what are the small lighter coloured 'circles' that we see ‘in’ (or behind?) three of the windows?


Attachments:
1 Exeter-bridge-windows.jpg
1 Exeter-bridge-windows.jpg [ 391.21 KiB | Viewed 207 times ]
2 Exeter-Bridge.jpg
2 Exeter-Bridge.jpg [ 190.64 KiB | Viewed 207 times ]
3 Bridge-windows.jpg
3 Bridge-windows.jpg [ 191.95 KiB | Viewed 207 times ]
Post Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:35 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Yeah, looks weird to be a reflection, the images look more like doors or something on the inside. I guess I will not use “glass” in my model.

Marco
Post Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:12 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Are they reflections or just bulkhead features (piping, wiring, portholes) from "behind" the frames? If they were reflections, what would they be reflecting? An adjacent ship?
Post Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:35 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
I noticed somebody adding simulated glass to the bridge windows of an HMS Exeter scale model (another forum). Somebody else remarked that those windows did not have any, and I nodded, of course, I "knew". But now, I am in doubt, after looking at this picture, I see reflection from "glass" ?

Image

I guess these windows had glass that could be opened (to the inside?) or am I wrong? Would be a nice detail to put some sheets of "glass" to some of the windows.

Marco
Post Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
KevinD wrote:

BTW; 'Dick' if you are reading this 1) thanks for posting that pic of York at bottom of previous page and 2) do you know what date that photo was taken? TIA!


Sorry, I have no exact date. Photo was taken at Alexandria so it is sometime late September 1940 - March 1941. Given what the crew are wearing, I suspect closer to mid-winter.
Post Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:22 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
tjstoneman wrote:
Exeter's saluting guns were fitted on the after superstructure abreast the mainmast, two on each side. They are visible in Official U.S. Navy photo NH 60807 (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Overhead_view_of_HMS_Exeter_(68)_in_the_Panama_Canal_Zone_in_the_1930s.jpg).

Thanks for that Tim

Interestingly, and the reason I asked, is the pic I posted gives / gave (me) the impression that it was taken on the upper-deck level, as we seem to be looking over the deck railing directly onto the sea, as opposed to down onto the upper deck, as I thought we would be from where they are situated in the pic you linked to.

I guess it's just the angle of view / position the photographer was in - in what I posted - which gave me that impression as it were.

Again thanks.
Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:25 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Exeter's saluting guns were fitted on the after superstructure abreast the mainmast, two on each side. They are visible in Official U.S. Navy photo NH 60807 (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Overhead_view_of_HMS_Exeter_(68)_in_the_Panama_Canal_Zone_in_the_1930s.jpg).
Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:35 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
I wonder if someone would care to ID where / what location this gun was placed on Exeter?

Photos captioned as I received.

BTW; 'Dick' if you are reading this 1) thanks for posting that pic of York at bottom of previous page and 2) do you know what date that photo was taken? TIA!


Attachments:
1937-Press-Photo-HMS-Exeter-Cruiser-Gun-Fires-Salute-To-San-Francisco-Officials-PAPER.jpg
1937-Press-Photo-HMS-Exeter-Cruiser-Gun-Fires-Salute-To-San-Francisco-Officials-PAPER.jpg [ 168.04 KiB | Viewed 589 times ]
1937-Press-Photo-HMS-Exeter-Cruiser-Gun-Fires-Salute-To-San-Francisco-Officials-BW.jpg
1937-Press-Photo-HMS-Exeter-Cruiser-Gun-Fires-Salute-To-San-Francisco-Officials-BW.jpg [ 99.71 KiB | Viewed 589 times ]
Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:14 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
thanks, just what I needed
Post Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:40 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Attachment:
York l .jpg
York l .jpg [ 120.12 KiB | Viewed 1031 times ]


I assume that the Trumpeter one is different to this in these four places?

Attachment:
zpm 2 - Copy.jpg
zpm 2 - Copy.jpg [ 149.76 KiB | Viewed 1027 times ]
Post Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 7:35 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
I've found two distinct illustrations of HMS York's starboard camouflage in 1941. The one included in Trumpeters instruction appears different from other pictures. Does anyone have a photo of her starboard side?
thanks, Walt Haynes
Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 10:37 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Thanks for the speedy reply gents. :thumbs_up_1:
Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:00 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
The items drawn in the 'tubs' match Profile Morskie's standard depiction of pompom directors fitted with RDF Type 282.
Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 5:32 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Pompom directors
Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 5:27 am

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