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Topic review - Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Trumpeters kit represents the upper deck around the airplanes catapults in grey, antiskid. But I see wood planks in this picture on the upper deck, right between the boats and the airplane deck, quite different from the dark gray antiskid on the rear castle. Thoughts? (Maybe we need to start scribing that deck, too!)

Image

Marco
Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
KevinD, no problem.
Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:10 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
It's very useful, I initially believed that this pinnace was a 35ft version (as they are so alike) but apparently not!
Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:24 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Thanks DavidP.

EJ, below is a clearer version of the text for the boats. Biggest size image I could make / post given the 400kb file size for posting here.


Attachments:
Exeter-boats-from-1930-Plan.jpg
Exeter-boats-from-1930-Plan.jpg [ 390.64 KiB | Viewed 223 times ]
Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:44 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
yes
Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:37 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Does it say 30ft motor pinnace beneath the starboard aircraft?
Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:41 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
yes.
Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:44 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
David P, is your 1930 drawing the same one as below?


Attachments:
Exeter-Plans-1930.jpg
Exeter-Plans-1930.jpg [ 370.62 KiB | Viewed 285 times ]
Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:21 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Difficult to tell from the photo of Exeter turning to starboard, but it appears that the foc's'le guardrails and those round "B" gundeck are still in place; they would normally have been struck before firing the main armament, either for practice or in anger.
Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:00 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Thank you, David, got it!
In this case, flag is hanging from the rear mast, I think I´ve got couple more showing this array when on high seas, I think this is the one I am going to use on my model. Notice that, although the main armament is being used, ensign staff is up, as is the stern flagpole. Could be of course maneuvers only without live firing.

Image

Marco
Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:24 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Brett Morrow wrote:
The Ensign staff appears in most cases to have been folded in open waters, and the Ensign was flown from the mainmast gaff, but there also exists quite a number of images which show the Ensign staff erected with flag flying whilst underway in open waters. This question and circumstances may only be answered in a Seaman`s manual of the day, what is classed as open waters? and under what conditions?



The then KR's might have been the guide but if not then I suspect the custom and practice would not have been very different to that laid down in today's QR's: "9113. Manner of Wearing Colours 1. In harbour and when under way in pilotage waters the White Ensign is to be worn at the ensign staff. At sea it is normally to be worn, in a one-masted ship, on a staff in a suitable position on the after superstructure, and in a two-masted ship at a small gaff on the mainmast. On ceremonial occasions at sea the Ensign may be worn at the Ensign staff at the discretion of the Commanding Officer, or as ordered by the senior officer of the Squadron, who is to ensure uniformity. See Para 9115 on alternative positions for the sea Ensign when a staff or gaff is not available."
Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:19 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
drawing sent
Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:01 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Thank you, Brett and David. Up to now, I guess it was 2 lines astern, 2 or 3 lines up front, will follow the photographical references as much as I can, trying to match them to blueprints. Thank you, David, for the blueprint offering, if it not too much bothering, I will send you a pm, such details always come in handy!

Marco
Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:00 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Marco, I have the 1930 version of that drawing 2.24mb, 5876x2320 pixels if you need it. does not have the stern awning rig layout that Brett's has.
Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:07 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Marco, if you go back to page 19, Kevin D has posted a rig diagram `as designed` it shows the 2 aft aerial lines, I can not comment on it`s accuracy, the lines do not appear present in images. The oh image dated 1934 shows no aerials, I can not see them in other images.
Admittedly the aerials are so thin they can`t be seen between masts in that particular image.
You could likely obtain a rigging plan from Greenwich museum, it would cost you.
Here a rig diagram unfortunately the only resolution I have, perhaps someone has a larger print to share, aerials appear not to be shown in this plan.

A number of paintings appear on the PD, one image shows 2 ensigns flying, another shows 4 ?? that image also shows topgallant stay and dressline strung?

I understand your frustration to achieve accuracy, and also your trepidation of unwanted comments/criticism should you get it wrong, honestly do not let the latter bother you?
All the best


Attachments:
EXETER RIG.jpg
EXETER RIG.jpg [ 190.63 KiB | Viewed 71 times ]
EXETER, 34.jpg
EXETER, 34.jpg [ 347.59 KiB | Viewed 71 times ]
Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:42 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
In the end, I need a rigging blueprint... which I don´t have the slightest idea where to get, Morskie I don´t trust (and I can´t guarantee that the drawing I uploaded is accurate, either), and there are no pictures of combat situations for the HMS Exeter. At least I am sure about not installing the "dressline" (and somebody will tell me "you did not install the complete rigging...") Well, still several months until I reach rigging stage in my model!

Thank you, Brett.

Marco
Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:40 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
I recall a question along these lines somewhere but do not remember where, it may have been in relation to ensigns flown in battle and may have actually concerned Exeter.
The Ensign staff appears in most cases to have been folded in open waters, and the Ensign was flown from the mainmast gaff, but there also exists quite a number of images which show the Ensign staff erected with flag flying whilst underway in open waters. This question and circumstances may only be answered in a Seaman`s manual of the day, what is classed as open waters? and under what conditions?

Marco`s renderings show a number of lines, the very top line 3 would be a `topgallant stay` which I believe would remain in place but other opinions welcome, the lower line 2 would be a dressline and I believe would be lowered, there are 2 lines aft of the mainmast, one would be a gallant stay and the other a dressline.

I could not comment on the aerial lines shown and one must question whether the drawing is accurate? they do not appear in images of the day, ie Exeter in Balboa 34. I have not seen aerial lines rigged as such, what is required is a rigging diagram for Exeter prewar.

How many Ensigns flown in battle? a good question. Possibly at least 2, on mainmast gaff and from foremast.
Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:24 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Brett Morrow wrote:
Marco, the rigs you have arrowed were dress lines, used to attach pennant flags for special occasion, they were supported on the masts by pulley block and were normally lowered and stowed when not required. The dress line between masts was also usually lowered/stowed, but it appears not always.
The Jack staff on the bow was usually erected in harbour to fly the national flag, it was stowed in open waters underway.
The Ensign staff at the stern was always erected and always flew the Ensign, all commissioned ships flew the ensign.


Thank you, Brett. So, if the HMS Exeter would be about to enter combat with the Graf Spee, December 13, 1939, would the lines numbered in the following drawings NOT be in place? There a couple lines at the rear that seem to be radio antennas, they should be gone, too? And I think that the ensign staff on the rear would be removed/folded in combat, and the flags would be flown from the main mast? Sorry if I ask too much, had the same issue with the Graf Spee, and I want to model my HMS Exeter in combat operations, not as entering a harbor, thanks!

Image

Image

Marco
Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:27 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Is the pole at the stern also not only used when in harbour? And the flag at sea would be at the main mast?
Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:55 am
  Post subject:  Re: Calling all HMS York class (HMS Exeter-WWII) fans  Reply with quote
Marco, the rigs you have arrowed were dress lines, used to attach pennant flags for special occasion, they were supported on the masts by pulley block and were normally lowered and stowed when not required. The dress line between masts was also usually lowered/stowed, but it appears not always.
The Jack staff on the bow was usually erected in harbour to fly the national flag, it was stowed in open waters underway.
The Ensign staff at the stern was always erected and always flew the Ensign, all commissioned ships flew the ensign.
Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:04 pm

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